Liberal Forum

jerrab » 13 Feb 2023, 10:59 pm » wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2023, 10:59 pm

you can't sit there and say that putin would have invaded even if biden said that the truth that ukraine cannot join nato,

if biden had said that and russia invaded anyway, then that would be proof.

you can't prove a positive with a negative.

biden should have tried to avoid the war with earnest peace talks instead of just daring putin into a war.

Not to mention that thing where Trump promised Putin to give up Crimea and Ukraine in the FIRST place.  Putin said he did, and Trump has never denied it. So there's that.

Your position is Biden should've tried to avert war by promising something he probably had no right to promise (that Ukraine would never join NATO) and my position is it wouldn't have mattered anyway, especially since NATO wasn't the stated premise upon which Putin attacked Ukraine. It was allegedly to "stop nazis."

Which is proof enough that Putin would've found some other pretext... because it was always his intent.

But hey, we'll never agree on this point so time to move on.

Russia trying to “incite violence by white supremacist groups” in US ahead of 2020 election: report - Salon 

The Current Political Chaos was planned more than 20 years ago - Dailykos 

Foundations of Geopolitics - Wikipedia 

Putin Says Trump Gave Up Crimea And Other Parts Of Ukraine During Private Summit - hillreporter (dot com) 

Southern Nationalist Group Creates Russian Language Website Page To Foster Relationship Between the 'Two Natural Allies' - Newsweek 

Hey! Maria Butina Was at NRA Convention in Louisville in 2016! Guess Who Met with Her? - Dailykos 

Russia’s plot against the West – POLITICO 

Putin’s long game has been revealed, and the omens are bad for Europe - The Guardian 

Russia Could Push US Election Violence Through Far-Right Ties: Experts - Businessinsider (dot com)