Liberal Forum

jerrab » 13 Feb 2023, 11:30 pm » wrote: ↑

13 Feb 2023, 11:30 pm

biden knows very well that nato won't let ukraine join,

If Biden know that so does Putin. Which sort of makes your argument a moot point, does it not? 

Look, like I said, we don't have to agree. Not that I'm saying the West or NATO has clean hands in all of this 

However, I'm not going to accept any point of view that suggests Putin is merely some noble defender against "western aggression" rather than a person with malevolent intent - intent involving the dissolution of the EU, NATO, and Democracy in America, the return of the old Soviet republic, and the spread of his own influence and world domination, throughout Europe and elsewhere, to name a few of his goals.   

And he and his allies (including those in the US, online and off) have been hard at work towards achieving those ends and for quite some time. Bottom line, I just happen to know too much to accept the "Putin as defender" premise. 

I've written before (in this thread) that America has long been at war with Russia. A Russian propagandists has quite recently said so as well (though he doesn't acknowledge Russia as equally at fault). Russian State TV Guest Says Ukraine Invasion an "Episode" in War With U.S. - Newsweek

And Russia's involvement in our elections, its dissemination of misinformation, divisive ideology, propaganda, their allegiance to, collusion with, and support from far right entities (like Trump, Carlson, Greene et al) and with hate based organizations within America - ALL are evidentiary acts of war (IMO).     

I've provided some background information (well, a lot actually) re some of that - and I've well over a thousand more similar references. Though ultimately, it's up to others here, to either accept the information or reject it. 

I promise I will be neither surprised nor disappointed if it's the latter.