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There is no Ukraine. No Such State Exists.
Today 12:02 pm
This is exactly why I remain distanced from mincing and parsing in this "chatroom". It becomes a typing exercise in tedium almost every time. Challenging my knowledge of something you obviously follow with fervor. I find ANY detail out-of-whack and out come the knives.Cannonpointer » Yesterday, 10:05 pm » wrote: ↑ It's a legal argument - not "propaganda." When you find yourself calling anything and everything one side says "propaganda," you become part of the problem. You make matters ireeconcilable, since language is no longer language but a dirty word instead. Nothing is left but sticks and stones, once you fromally reject language as a means to end a war.
Russia DID raise the issue AT THE TIME that Coupkraine broke the Big Treaty of Friendship (Russia's formal recognition of Ukraine's sovereignty, based on Ukraine obeying the treaty - which treaty incorporated the pledges made in the Declaration of Independence). In response to Coupkraine breaking the treaty, Russia took Crimea and began to back the separatists in the oblasts which did not agree with the coup. At the start of the SMO, Russia offered Coupkraine their original borders, minus Crimea - but they had to embrace again the three pledges on which Russia's agreement to recognize their state was based: Non-nuclear, non-aligned, neutral. Ukraine was the solid wall of neutrality and non-alignment between NATO and Moscow, which served the LEGITIMATE insterests of all parties.
What you need to understand is that when a coup takes place, not everyone is going to recognize the coup. Some will remain loyal.
In the case of Russian speaking oblasts, remaining loyal was a no-brainer, because the first thing the coup government did was to outlaw the languages of minority Ukrainians. This affects Hungarians, Romainians, Poles, and Russians. That's a problem for people, having their language outlawed. To this day, Hungary is blocking Coupkraine's EU accession steps because of their persecution of ethnic Hungarians on the shared border.
As to Kiev being the original capital of the Rus, that is correct. But the Rus moved their capital. So what? There was no Ukraine until Russia said so. That's a fact. Kiev being their original capiitol is an excuse and a complaint - not a relevant aspect of the issues the war is being fought about.
I will wager dollars to donuts you don't even know what the issue of the war ARE. .
The Russians (Rus) came from Scandinavian areas centuries after Kiev was established. Gosh, they didn't call it a country... Ukraine probably didn't even exist as a word then. Neither did Russian btw. Acting all "sovereign" about a narrative and ignoring that a "sovereign" status was unleashed almost 4 decades ago borders on hypocritical. (Germany and Japan ain't a'sposeta arm themselves either cuz WW2 says they wuz bad once.)
**** changes over time.
The Evil Russian Empire didn't really cut them loose so all other viewpoints are dead?
That "empire" crap is ok, even though our empire **** is the worst thing ever.
I'm tired of typing for now.
ps
Everything is propaganda when only the convenient facts are used. Like stats and "legal hogwash"...
Please seat yourself.
I like the very things you hate.
I like the very things you hate.