Liberal Forum

Thread to contribute your idea of "What makes a Liberal".
This thread is for essays, or shorter tracts;    

This thread is not for rebuttal.  If you want to dispute something, in this thread, please start a separate thread in LO.  
Thanks

 
 

The definitions of Conservative and Liberal have been hopelessly confused by..... 1 - A growing corporate owned takeover of government and..... 2 - The rise of a massive corporate propaganda machine designed to cultivate and encourage..... religious fundamentalists..... forced childbirth advocates..... racists..... gun enthusiasts..... sexists..... homophobes..... xenophobes..... the ignorant and superstitious. All the wedge issues have been used to allow corporations and their owners to get votes for their political mouthpieces in government who promptly make laws shoveling wealth to the top of the economic pyramid while giving massive lip service to their voters about the wedge issues.

"Conservative" authorities are inconsistent in their stated beliefs. Today's Conservative "principles" are designed to exploit the masses while further enriching the Plutocracy. They have nothing to do with actual Conservatism.

So today, anyone who rejects corporate propaganda is labeled a Liberal, Socialist or Communist by the corporate-owned mainstream media. The label being dependent on which corporate shill is holding forth at the time.

Small government, low taxes, a strong military (incredibly called "defense"), supporting the troops, being a Christian, emphasizing personal responsibility ..... None of these things are particularly Conservative or Liberal. They are designed to exploit.

The true meaning of Liberal is someone who is in favor of progressive ideas and not adverse to jettisoning the means and institutions of the past. Being Liberal, in many ways, means being pragmatic..... In favor of doing what works and moving on if it doesn't.

The real meaning of Conservative is someone who is in favor of keeping the old institutions and ways of doing things. And even bringing back old ones. Real Conservatives tend to see value in what has worked in the past and distrust the new.

But today's political reality has distorted the meanings of Liberal and Conservative beyond recognition.

So what would government look like in the US without the control and influence of Big Money? I think the terms Liberalism and Conservatism would begin to take on consistent meanings, based on more rational beliefs than now. To a large extent, the political crazies would be marginalized. And more than two parties would arise.

My short take on what makes a liberal in the United State of America in 2020.

Liberals actually believe the second paragraph of the Declaration of
Independence is more than pretty words:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they’re endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” — which is the ultimate good — “That to secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

In a nutshell, a liberal is about life. You cannot have liberty or equality in your life without justice. Justice is perverted without truth and goodness. Life without beauty isn't much of a life at all.

Liberals support justice, liberty, equality, truth, goodness & beauty. Liberals have empathy, sympathy, compassion and value community. Liberals back those up with what they do and what they support and what they say. Liberals are for life. That comment sounds controversial for some on the other side. Not to me.

Mortimer J. Adler wrote "Six Great Ideas: Truth–Goodness–Beauty–Liberty–Equality–Justice" published in 1981. That's a deep dive into those six ideas. It's worth a read.
 

Originally written by Cecelia


Liberals tend to favor regulated liberty with social equality, workers rights, and the public good.

Conservatives tend to favor morally-regulated liberty, corporate rights, and the Free Market.

To explain what I mean by each of those:

Regulated Liberty with social Equality:
Guns should be regulated.
Businesses should not be allowed to turn away customers, because that infringes on the customers right.
Legalize recreational drugs

Workers Rights:
Bosses have no right denying birth control to workers
Workers have a right to a living or fair wage
Workers have a right to maternity leave and sick pay.

Public Good:
Guns are dangerous, thus guns should be regulated
Government Assistance for those who can't make it on their own
Public Schools

On the other side...

Morally-Regulated Liberty
War on Drugs
Anti-Gay Marriage
Anti-Choice

Guns are an absolute right and shall not be infringed upon. Second Amendment is absolute

Corporate Rights
It's infringing upon a boss's right to force them to pay for coverage of something they are personally against.
It's infringing upon a businesses right to force them to do business with someone they do not want to do business with
Corporations avoiding taxes is natural because profits are in their best interest

Free Market
Competition is the driving force of improvement
Schools should compete with one another, because competition improves everything
Government is incapable of making something better than the Free Market

Liberals also tend to view war as a terrible thing, while conservatives view it as honorable.

For Conservatives, Liberty is about values. If anything stops you from upholding your values (gay marriage, birth control) then your rights are being infringed upon by the government.

For liberals, Liberty is about social equality. If someone prevents you from doing something someone else can do, then your rights are being infringed upon.
 

Originally Posted By KiwiRoller

Difficult question, as with a lot of definitions it is open to a wide variety of interpretations, including differentiating 'liberal' from 'progressive'. In America it seems like Democratic Socialists, Social Democrats, and Free Market 'Liberals' that believe in a 'free market economy' and also support civil rights or human rights, are lumped together.

 So, if I was to define what I believe is a true liberal/progressive, it would be: Support for human rights, and not distinguishing the right to healthcare, education, a living wage, or living conditions from that of being free from discrimination or persecution. That means always working towards a fairer and more compassionate society. Believe in a tax system that distributes from the top 1% and very wealthy corporations, down to the rest of the population through social services, infrastructure, and so on. Support Civil Liberties, even if at times this might conflict with economic, foreign policy, or national security.

This means if not opposing the TPP and Freedom Act, then really taking a critical eye to both. Be against corporate and government corruption, whether in politics or on the street, and support a cleaner political system and society as a whole. Support minorities and political dissidents, if they believe a group or individual are being unfairly treated or discriminated against. This can mean LGBT, Muslims, Blacks, Jews, Atheists/Agnostics, illegal/legal immigrants, whistleblowers, and so on. That's a brief list, but a meaningful one.
 

Originally Posted by Redwood

To ME.......a Liberal sees a nation a SOCIETY as a TEAM GAME. We want us ALL to thrive, to be treated right. We ain't about Negative Emotional ****. It's a NATION... a link up og thousands of Communities. We ALL pull the load. We all get the rewards. If some sort of sugar coated monarchy was best? Why even break with England. If DICTATOR was so good? Why fight WWII? Democracy is ABOUT the RULE by the average guy. The AVERAGE guy may be a SUCKER a bit too often.. but....DEMOCRACY is a job we,as citizens.. need to do.
 

Originally posted by ringringlingling

As absurd as it sounds, the reason I support the democrats is because they are, for lack of a better word, the party of "peace". They have not sent troops overseas to fight on foriegn soil since 1942. 

While the navy, the air force, and the cia all continue to conduct operations while the democrats are in power, the democrats do not send the US army or the US marine core to fight overseas and die in pointless wars, and make every effort to end such wars when they are started by republicans. I know it may sound like a fairly silly distinction, because there are many places such as Syria and Libya which the US conducts airstrikes and intelligence operations, but the democrats do not send "boots on the ground".

I guess its really the best we can hope for in this day in age.
 
 

Originally posted by Souriquois

The thing is, "Liberal" means different things in different countries.
In the USA, it seems synonymous with leftists when used perjoritavely.

But also many Third Way.
I am slightly to the left, and I vote for the Liberal Party here in Canada, but the political party itself has a mix of leftists, Third Way, and even some right-wingers, the main strain running through them is strong federalism... keeping Canada together as one sovereign nation. Of course, for that to happen, you have to be socially liberal because of Canada's cultural make-up.
  
We have a separate genuine leftist party, the NDP, but they are not as federalist, hence why they often attract left-leaning people who support Quebec autonomy.
  
In Australia, a liberal is a right-winger.
 
 
 

From Rayosun

I would dare say that there's not a single person in these United States of America who doesn't identify with the words of Thomas Jefferson in The Declaration of Independence,

 "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all men are created Equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."Since that is one of the best definitions of liberalism ever expressed, to whatever extent they embrace that statement Americans are all liberals, whether they know it or not!
 
Liberalism is simply the belief that we humans need to stick together and to fight the few powerful individuals and groups who would exploit those less powerful than themselves. We need to fight to constantly make progress together, and not to allow any of our more vulnerable brothers or sisters to be left behind.
 

From TheOldBarn

I took some mud and mixed it with sun and made a liberal/ yes, mud and sun can make a liberal/ yes, it is just that easy. 

Peace!
 

From Pgr1

Look it's not that complicated. Economically, conservatives believe that if we help the rich get even richer, they will in turn take care of the rest of us (create jobs, give to charity, in other words it will trickle down). Historically you have to go back to the Eisenhower administration to find anything repubkicans ever did for the working people. Try taking "the shortest political quiz". It will tell you where you are on the political spectrum.

Minimum wage, Medicare, medicaid, social security, public television, civil rights bill, voting rights act to name a few we can thank democrats for
 

From Mountaineer

Empathy for fellow man and all sentient creatures.
Concern for the environment; Lack of greed.
Care about future generations.
 
 
 

Originally by Zaro

Not being in a box is liberalism to me. Non dogmatic, non doctrinaire, not committed to a set of ideas. Roll with what works to make life better for everybody.
I get a kick out of con talk about liberal education. Education is liberalism.
 

By QuantumPhyzx

What makes a liberal? Well, someone who actually enjoys living in reality and who has a firm grasp of how to think logically when presented with a set of data. The truth tends to be liberal, numbers tend to be racist/liberal/politically correct/etc. (i'm just being sarcastic, but in a "Trump Conservative post-fact era" it sadly has some truth to it when you look at the rabid illogical fandom of diehard Trumpteers)
 

By kfbvoice

Liberalism and the left are often referred to interchangeably and they frequently work together for similar things. There is a difference especially when we talk about democratic socialism and even social democracy. Pointing out the differences doesn't mean liberals and leftists should be enemies. In fact the left plays a crucial role in activism and grassroots organizing efforts for social change that liberals support. Moreover radical demands and ideas often become modified into liberal public policy. Nevertheless we need to recognize the differences to better understand debates around capitalism, economic inequality, and the Presidential candidacy of Bernie Sanders.

 Democratic Socialism ​Emphasizes the need to work peacefully within the democratic process to bring about collective ownership of the means of production. Furthermore once capitalism has ended it uses democratic means to make economic decisions and preserves certain democratic freedom unlike totalitarianism which tries to control and repress every aspect of individual life while not allowing any dissent. Many democratic socialists would argue that real socialism has never existed anywhere because they reject the abuse and excesses of communism whether in the former Soviet Union, Maoist China, or the Third World. But the also tend to think that Western Europe's Labor and Social Democratic parties do not go far enough. 

Social Democracy Emphasizes the values of freedom, equality, and social solidarity. It may seek to realize democratic socialism at some point or accept capitalism while striving for the values mentioned here. Social Democracy has profoundly impacted Western European countries like the UK, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. It has kept much of capitalism with strong regulations, some state ownership, and a universal welfare state including free healthcare for all. They have used high taxes to nearly eliminate poverty, reduce wealth income inequalities, and preserve a large middle class. 

Liberalism Emphasizes individual liberty. Things like equality, tolerance, and limited government within the rule of law uphold individual liberty in liberalism. Liberals want to prevent tyranny by controlling power exercised by anyone in society or government. Contemporary liberals unlike their classical forbearers are more supportive of government in society and the marketplace because they see private threats by capitalism as well as government to individual liberty. Liberals in this sense value economic regulation and more limited means tested welfare. Liberals are committed to the individual and private property so they want to control capitalism not abolish it.
 
 

By Strootman:

Hello, I am new here, and I think this topic may be a good one for my first post. I am not american, I am italian actually, but I would really like to participate to this forum for a number of reasons, especially in these times... My only concern is that I am not sure how to label myself.

The following is a list of my 'beliefs':
 Every argument should be approached by logic, reason and SCIENCE. Religion should have no place in the world, and should be limited to private houses (I see Richard Dawkings as a too moderate atheist). "Religion poisons everything" (Hitchens) is one of the best quotes ever and explains roughly 50% of the world problems (depending on the areas could get up to 90%). 

I believe in free market and free trade, but not among countries with huge disparities of labour rights and wages (i.e. I think Europe and USA should have a totally free market among them, but not with China, unless they stop treating their workers like slaves). I believe that manufacturing industry should be roughly equally shared among coutries (as much as possible, at least).

Here is what I mean with a brief example: do you, Ford, want to sell your cars in my area? No problem, no custom taxes, but build those cars in my area (as long as the area is big enough for it to be worth it). 

I would prohibit the very existence of pure financial banks. Banks should only operate to provide loans and mortgage to individuals, families and companies, with very strict regulations from governments. 

I am not sure if these points mark me as a liberal, I would say more like a social democrat (as explained a few posts above), but I still hope I could partecipate in this Room, as for what I have read till now, I agree with most of what is written here. I tried to read the No Holds Barred, but I really couldn't stand it for more that 5 minutes, I had no idea conservatives in the States could be so bad... 

P.S. I'm sorry for my english, I know it's far from perfect. 
 
 

By kfbvoice

For those who might find my take on Liberalism unsatisfactory consider the following insights from an article online that cites Alan Wolfe and Edmund Fawcett : As Alan Wolfe writes in The Future of Liberalism, the liberal philosophy is best summed up in the notion that, “As many people as possible should have as much say as is feasible over the direction their lives will take.” For liberals, liberty and equality come before markets.

Liberals, Wolfe continues, believe that all people “should be free to exercise their full capacities: minds, through open societies that allow everyone to develop their intellect, and bodies, through societies that guarantee sufficient economic security to individuals so that they are not dependent upon the arbitrary will of others for the basic necessities of life.”* Without liberty and equality, market freedom is one more tyranny dressed in Liberty’s robes. You can’t be free if you’re stuck in the choking cloud of ignorance, and you can’t be free if you’re stuck under the thumbs of those with more money and power.
 
In his book Liberalism: The Life of an Idea, Edmund Fawcett outlines why the liberal tradition endures to this day:
Liberalism offered means to adapt law and government to productive new patterns of trade and industry, to hold together divided societies from which familiar organizing hierarchies and overarching creeds were disappearing and to foster or keep hold of standards of humanity, particularly standards for how state power and moneyed power must not mistreat or neglect people with less power.*

It’s the last line, “how state power AND moneyed power must not mistreat or neglect people with less power,” that especially stands out. Here, Fawcett highlights where liberalism differs from conservatism, which tends to only see concentrated power in the state, when, in fact, powers always collude, and moneyed interests have always tried to control the state for their own ends, even if they have to run roughshod over democracy in the process.

. http://thatdevilhistory.com/index.php/2 ... nd-beyond/
 
 
 

By TheOldBarn.

One of the things that disparages folks from identifying how they feel is constructs. I'm not entirely sure why I call myself a liberal, I think it's a good thing to want to learn more about the world and possibly get involved where I can help. We all want to help, or at least some people whether they consider themselves liberal or conservative who are good folks do.
 
what does it mean to be a good citizen is maybe the question we should ask ourselves. Are we all in the world together, do the things we do affect others in some ways? Nobody wants to step on toes or suggest a person is horrible for believing whatever it is that they do - at least to some extent most feel this is true, at least I hope.

Sometimes ideas or constructs are taxed too much. Nobody likes it when they are called a socialist or communist just because they think healthcare is a right all people should have.

 People do have mental issues like depression, or drug dependence, that shouldn't mean they should not get the help they need - that would be wrong. People can learn from other points of view as long as they are expressed in truthful ways. Capitalism is not evil, quite the opposite in many respects. Governments can be corrupt history shows that they can.
 
Most people want a sustainable economic system and a strong middle class and equality but the question is how, not why. You see this in all the propaganda whether from politics or by business trying to sell perhaps what they feel is a good product that can help people.

Henry Ford had some great ideas, sure, he had his problems too. I don't know what the heck he was, I don't think anybody ever asked him if he was a conservative or a liberal. Nor did anyone ask that question from Thomas Edison or even Walt Whitman.

I don't think Hemingway was a liberal even though he was anti fascist or seemed to be very much so. Truth be told, I wouldn't really know. I'm a politically registered Independent, but I always vote for Democrats for the most part. Sure I voted for Nader a couple of times, but only because I lived in California and I knew it wouldn't affect the vote - I wanted him but people, most didn't I thought sadly.

Times are tough these days for liberals politically. There's been a lot of propaganda against their views generally speaking - you can't put them all into one group in a nutshell yet we sense this shift that has transpired and changed a lot of good work we all thought we had the right to count on.  Man oh man, there are a lot of great things we aren't doing as a country. Things that we are perfectly capable of doing, and it hurts that we ain't doing those things. This I am quite convinced is true.

Peace!
 
 

By robby8584

I go back to what JFK said:

 "If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”
 

By Neomalthusian:

Modern liberalism's strongest features include:

• favoring progressive taxes as a primary means of promoting relative economic and social equality.
• using the governmental spending power that progressive taxation enables to fund social programs that make life better for people whose goods/services/labor no one wants to buy.
• regulating private sector enterprise to whatever extent necessary to prevent monopolistic pricing, inefficient levels of profit (a.k.a. economic rent-seeking), and consumer fraud and abuse.
• rejecting (often religiously-based) bigoted attitudes toward groups commonly identified as being a racial, ethnic or other minority.
• favoring science, evidence and change over tradition and religion.

A step further, I think the strongest aspects of economic liberalism include:

• understanding monetary sovereignty, i.e. countries that have fiat currencies managed by a central bank do not have to balance their federal budgets the way Aunt Agnes balances her checking account
• recognizing that globalization and technological advancements are causing supply side capitalism to be decreasingly able to raise living standards broadly (i.e. "trickle down")
• but that despite this (the eventual failure of supply side economics' ability to raise living standards broadly being partly attributable to globalization), we should nevertheless openly accept the inevitability of globalization and work with it rather than against it, as global trade and exchange of goods, services and ideas is the most likely to promote global peace and prosperity, versus turning inward and protectionistic.