Liberal Forum

By kfbvoice:

As Wolfe notes, liberals want equality to extend beyond the aristocratic class or the business elite via equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. “Liberals,” he writes, “believe that the freedom to live your life on terms you establish does not mean very much if society is organized in such as way as to deny large numbers of people the possibility of ever realizing that objective.”

In contrast to conservative claims that liberty can best be achieved via free markets and the absence of state intervention, liberals believe in a “positive liberty,” which holds that human flourishing should not be reduced to a series of monetary exchanges. Thus, it is not enough for a free person to be merely “left alone” by the state; a free person should also have the capacity to realize her own personal goals, and liberals are “prepared to accept state intervention into the economy in order to give large numbers of people the sense of mastery that free market capitalism gives only to the few.”*
 
https://thatdevilhistory.com/index.php/ ... #more-1410
 

By ericb:

Back on this forum after a 6yr absence and noted this thread.  I've thought quite a lot about this topic over the years, even putting together a short book on the subject.  My definitions of liberal and conservative are pretty short and general, which I think makes them a good guide when a new issue comes up.  (See below.)  What do you think?  Essentially, almost everyone values fairness, empathy, social stability, and economic freedom.  What differentiates us is the emphasis we place on those things. 

My theory is that political liberals value fairness and empathy more than they value social stability and economic freedom, while social conservatives most value social stability and economic conservatives value the kind of economic freedom that benefits businesses.  (Strict ideologies like libertarianism and Marxism don't rely on values so much as doctrine, so are outside my four-value system.)  These values are heavily influenced by the culture we've grown up in, as opposed to being derived from rational thought.   (Yes, I know that statement offends almost everyone.)  Of course, no one is completely consistent.   

An often-heard equivalent to fairness and empathy is "justice tempered with mercy."   Taking a quick example:  the goals of our legal system are justice and order, which often conflict.  LIberals opt for justice, social conservatives for order, and economic conservatives for whatever benefits themselves, lol. 
 

By foggymist:

"Liberal" is love, community and the freedom of peace.  Conservative is just conservation.  i am tired of republican democrat and all labels.  to some freedom means getting drunk and hitting people walking in the back of the head with a bottle as they drive by them ~to truly be free together as a world we must have trust and respect differences.  i sign as a greenie these days in voting and it is worth mention that i do vote on midterm elections and think the Electoral College should be, most likely totally, removed from our Constitution.  I am thankful that our forefathers had the good sense of mind back then to write the Constitution so it can be changed with the times.  It's time.

By fourputt:

I'm new here but ever since 43 got us in that mess in Iraq I switched parties, allowing myself to listen to a different point of view really opened my eyes and thinking that my politial opinions were based off prejudices rather than thought out conclusions.I am a member of a trade union and what I find so ironic at times is if there was ever any issue with an employer it was always the loud mouthed right wing worker's that would demand union action to fix the problem all the while they vote for people who would dissolve the union if they could.
 
 

By splunch:

I always thought that being Liberal was associated directly with critical thinking, that it really is almost the same thing.  Free thinking.  It is not associated with an -ism or a set of beliefs.  Dogma of any flavor is, by definition, anti-Liberal.  Unless, of course, the dogma is that reason can serve us and we should use it.

I know that's a radical proposition for some folks, quite honestly.  It turns out even that is its own brand of dogma.  I guess that's the dogma for me.
 
 

By Ronrand:

In the eyes of most Liberals: 

- Profanity and character slurs are not a substitute for rational speech.- They do not ignore and dismiss science and statistics if they seem hostile to their positions.- They accepts people and ideas as they are, rather than employing negative slurs and idealogical categories.- Liberals are motivated by genuine love and compassion rather than a religious duty toward others.- They do not practice mindless revelry as if at a New years party.  Maturity and grave responsibility are practiced instead.- Intelligence and education are regarded as gifts rather than things to be feared and despised.- A liberal holds facts and science in high regard.- Liberals value compassion and common sense over beliefs and attitudes.- They are not judgemental or hateful.- Liberals are more likely to live spiritually than use the name of God for his/her selfish agendas and preferred doctrines.- A true liberal detests the words and actions of demagogues.- Freedom is valued over the right to impose arbitrary values.- Wealth is not virtue, nor poverty sin.- intelligent liberals recognize the danger of unbridled mental conditioning and rhetorical tactics in the media and by our 'leaders.'- Liberals do not crave one-sided views and mindless political fervor.- Do not think believing or saying it makes it so.- They value political integrity versus 'looking the other way' at corruption and deception.- Liberals respect ideas, facts, reasoning and responsible decision making.. 
 
 

By LoreD:

When people ask what defines me as a Progressive; my answer is that I care about people that I don't know.  

 I don't see my neighbour as the person next door.  I care about the child who needs dental care in West Virginia, the drug addict in Florida that needs rehab, children who need school lunches, elderly that are being bankrupted by medical costs, etc. 
 

By Fit2Serve:

The difference between the LEFT and RIGHT is that the RIGHT has NEVER contributed one thing to America, and the RIGHT is far too risk-averse and overwhelmingly TERRIFIED by cultural, technological, and societal change to EVER be of any use to anyone, much less society. By its own well-advertised core ideals and cowardly nature, Conservatives are shackled to regressive ideas, and are wholly incapable of thinking counter-intuitively, or venturing one inch outside the box. They are also incapable of demonstrating inductive/deductive reasoning.As a result, the ENTIRE RIGHT is terminally destined to remain the FOLLOWER CLASS of all human societies. For an easy example of how easily a LEFTIST with a brain can EASILY annihilate ANY Conservative moron, without even breaking a sweat... .....how about THIS idea?

Y'know...the RIGHT could actually WIN their silly Crusade to build a Wall to keep those "sub-human scary Brown people" out of (their) America....but they lack the simple 3rd-Grade intellect to come up with any ideas that MIGHT entice the adults in the room to support the idea.

So....Why not just build a 100' high, 2000 mile long SOLAR POWER PLANT, that would serve as a physical barrier AND supply ALL the electricity for the entire 48-State contiguous Nation?  The power needed to pump the water through this 2000 mile long "wall" and convert it into steam could EASILY be supplied by windmills, every 20 miles or so.

Heck, I'd throw the World's largest Fresh Water Desalinization Plant at the Pacific end of this "wall" to solve California's fresh water crisis....and being merciful to the RED States, who we should have NEVER allowed to rejoin America after the Civil War, I'd kick down a Diesel-from-sea-water Conversion Plant at the Gulf end to bring in dollars for the Red Southern Poverty-Stricken States....with BOTH Plants COMPLETELY powered by the electricity generated by this new "wall."   
 

By Fit2Serve:

I just wanted to add (after reading through this "what is a Liberal" string) that this statement by BluDog: "The true meaning of Liberal is someone who is in favor of progressive ideas and not adverse to jettisoning the means and institutions of the past.

 Being Liberal, in many ways, means being pragmatic..... In favor of doing what works and moving on if it doesn't." ............is a fair representation / summation of the MAIN difference between being on the "LEFT" vs. being on the RIGHT.

As I suggested in my initial post in this message string, being a "LEFTIST" means being UNAFRAID to CONTINUALLY CHALLENGE every American societal conviction, or supposition, or cultural "norm", to establish whether our communal long-held beliefs and widely-held human conceptions can stand up under the microscope of reason and pass the Viability Test as related to the Real World. Although we "liberals" or "Leftists" generally have the same normal, human fears, worries, and doubts as everyone else who would attempt to step outside the constraints of "normalcy", the Leftist is always the first to stare right into the face of possible failure or public mockery or worse to achieve something greater. The LEFTIST is the person who takes-on controversial topics, taboos, and issues as a means to evolve our society, and most times, it is that same society that presents the hardest obstacle to those changes. This constant push-back against all forms of evolutionary change from the CONSERVATIVE RIGHT occurs because at some level, EVERY human being is resistant to change, in all its forms. ///////Even when the immediate POSITIVE benefits of a change are apparent even to the uneducated mind, evident and undeniable at the simplest level, some folks will STILL fight against that change....because of FEAR. Perhaps the best advantage the Leftist has over the Conservative is a better ability to deal with our own self-realized FEAR. 

Sadly, without the benefit of Progressive ideas and thought processes, homo sapiens would have never left their caves or stopped fearing the lightning and the thunder.

Without LEFTISM, or Progressivism, the Renaissance never happens.Without Progressivism, our human culture's advancement of music, arts, mathematics, and the entire gamut of individual disciplinary sciences never evolve past the (accidental) discovery of fire, and the PROGRESSIVE idea to develop Man's ability to CONTROL that fire.Think back on our own human history.......just over the last 3-5 centuries.....what has been the Conservative RIGHT's parroted knee-jerk response to virtually EVERY Progressive-led societal advancement, from the first crude Iron Age simple chemical reactions that Man dabbled with and all the way up to the present, to today, as Man comes closer to creating Life in the lab from nothing but heat, chemicals, pressure, and time and is now genetically altering our own genes and extending the human lifespan?What about proving Life exists outside our own planet? We are poised to do ALL these things inside the next 20 years. For over 1000 years, the instant response from the terrified Conservative Religious RIGHT at each inch of progress has been accomplished has been the SAME OLD FEAR-MONGERING NONSENSE...and it continues, even today:

> SATAN must be behind that accursed idea!> You are consorting with the Devil!

 > You are offending God, himself!> You are tampering with things reserved ONLY for God!> You will go to HELL for daring to ask that question, for doing that experiment, for splitting that atom, for cloning that sheep, for attempting to break the sound barrier, for allowing two females or two males to marry!

> You are BLASPHEMING God!

> What you are doing/saying/suggesting/thinking about is an ABOMINATION...and APOSTACY!  The RIGHT has obstructed virtually EVERY OUNCE and INCH OF HUMAN ACHIEVEMENT.Sadly, that is their ONLY modus operandi....they are truly One-Trick Geldings.Is it their fault, really? Is it a conscious motive...some strange need to keep interfering with all forms of human success, with all human accomplishment, and with REASON, itself? Not really...because any person who foolishly constrains or shackles themselves to ANY kind of rigid, anti-thought/anti-courage/anti-science discipline or ideology...  is inevitably doomed to be left behind by those around him who keep moving forward. The Conservative is destined to be rudely dumped on the ash-heap of all human progress. This is why the RED States do NOT receive a penny on the dollar of Investment Capital when compared to the Blue States.

This is why the ENTIRE Bible Belt from the east Texan border to the State of Florida continually suffers the WORST rates of Teen Pregnancy, the highest incidence of HIV/AIDS Infections, the largest number of STD Transmissions, and lags behind the rest of the Nation in dealing with or overcoming every other American societal ill, trailing only the tiny District of Columbia in experiencing these ignorance-driven problems. Out here in the Golden State, and specifically, here in the Greater Bay Area, this is where the Cradle of Human Creation constantly reinvigorates itself, as this area leads the World in both scientific and technological accomplishment, and draws the brightest minds and ideas on the entire planet. But....Why? the answer should be self-evident,at this point......when you consider that Conservatives can't even get a seat at the ever-evolving Table of All Human Accomplishment, due to their core ideological self-imposed mental constraints and their fatal flaw: a stubborn refusal to RISK anything of real merit to chance upon stepping one inch towards doing or accomplishing something truly life-changing.    
 

By Debs:

I am a liberal and have been for as long as I had any political ideology. I can boil down my basic political philosophy to two statements 

1 Property doesn't have rights. PEOPLE have rights and when the two come into conflict PEOPLE must be given the benefit 

2 I never NEVER stand with the powerful against the weak
 

By Zkylonnen8:

I believe what makes a liberal is someone who wants the common good for all people and not just the people at the top and the most successful corporations. Also I believe liberals unlike conservatives aren't fueled by constant fear for themselves. I mean if you look at the facts conservatives are always in constant fear from immigration to the constant war on gays and the war on terrorism they are just so scared for themselves that they look to blame all of america's problems on anyone except themselves. Also I believe that Liberals have the sense of decency towards things unlike the other for example (trump, alex jones, rush limbaugh) and many others. Those 3 listed always have an issue with other groups of people based on the simple fact that they are different than us. 

 So in conclusion what makes a liberal is someone with the common decency for all people not just for your own self interests.  
 
 

By splunch:

What makes a Liberal?  An open mind.

That's what I always thought.  I land on the conservative side of plenty of issues (not the right-wing side) because it seems to me that the solution to a given problem is to do nothing, or very little, because we cannot always fix things, and sometimes trying to fix things just creates more complexity and more problems.  Other times, either a problem is so severe that you have to do something, or there is a clear solution that can be implemented without doing any harm, and you proceed accordingly.  Sort of a Hippocratic Oath of policy. 

First, do no harm.  If you can do some good without making things worse, then do it. I think a lot of left-leaning people can get a bit trigger happy and start throwing out solutions that can wind up making things worse.  It's important to analyze problems and the proposed solutions with a critical eye.  You LOOK for possible trouble, be a pessimist, work through the unintended consequences and try to account for the fact that you'll probably miss some. 

And then, after you've done that, if you still have a plan that you like, and you're willing to accept the compromises you'll inevitably be forced to accept, you can go ahead with your eyes open. Left-leaning people can be just as close-minded and tyrannical as right-leaning people.  Liberal thinking is all about finding the best solution, not just the one that comes with the preferred flavor of rationale. 

The radicals on both sides are easy to spot.  They are both characterized by the same logical fallacy:  you can make things better by making them worse. If your car has some bad gas in it you don't light the thing on fire and drive it over a cliff on the assumption that you're going to find a newer, better car once you've done that.  This is the kind of thinking you'll find on the radial left and the radical right.  The difference is just in the rationale.  
 

By laripu:

My take:

• a liberal wants a social structure that ensures that people of any kind who need or deserve some help will get it, even if that means that some undeserving people might get something.
• a conservative wants a social structure that ensures that undeserving people get nothing, even if that means that some deserving people will also get nothing.  Additionally, conservatives think that no-one except themselves and their kind deserve anything at all.

The cruelty is built in.
 
 
 

By fourputt:

What makes a liberal? I really don't know if there is a definition that addresses all issues that we have now but I like to think compassion for another human being regardless of all beliefs that other person may have or a simple willingness to look beyond. A desire for all to have a better life even if it involves giving up some of your comfort. 

I used to be in agreement with a good portion of the thoughts on the other side and it took some time to realize that all those ideas where stemmed from hate pure and simple and racism played a strong part of it. I grew up in a home that maybe didn't advocate racism but it certainly didn't discourage it either. Negative remarks towards blacks, mexicans, asians were not frowned upon for the most part. I took longer than I like to admit before I started being honest with myself and the way the world is but at least my eyes opened.

Anyways conservatives seem to think just shutting the door fixes most problems while all it does is just keep it from sight for a short time and you can still hear it through the door. I  see remarks all the time of zero empathy for innocent people suffering and illogical ideas to fix or remedy human tragedy, it just seems like as long as I don't have to help or be bothered is what they really want and they seem to think that cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world would be a great idea that nationalism would keep us safe from everything.

Liberalism to me is having an open mind to new ideas to improve the world we and every other living creature share, that in my mind is what needs to be understood by man from now on is we don't own the world we only share it for the brief time were upon it and there are countless lives that will need this planet also after us.

By Canadianwithahistorydegree2018:

A liberal knows that we are all in this world together...  and has empathy for others...  and is willing to trust individual  people until shown that some are selfish and they should be shunned...  A liberal respects all people who respect liberals...    Conservatives seem to be greedy, with no respect for any part of the human race that is not rich..........

By ManhattanTransfer:What makes a liberal as opposed to a conservative?  It all boils down to one very basic philosophical issue re the age old question of which precedes the other:  justice or order? The conservative (the few principled ones there are) asserts that order must first exist so that justice can prevail. The liberal asserts that justice must first exist so that order can prevail. Which of these do you affirm?  When considering what the USA Founding Fathers taught, you will learn that (however inconsistent they may have been in theory as opposed to practice), the Founders asserted the liberal position.  Justice, they said, must first exist so that order could prevail in their emerging society.  They believed in it so strongly that they were willing to die for it.  They gleaned this ideal from their studies of Erasmus, from Cicero, and from the Bible which teaches  "no justice, no peace" in Isaiah 59:8. https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Isaiah 59:8  There is a certain irony in all this as American conservatives always claim to be good Christians. Yes, they preach a good "Christian" lesson. But they often fall short of the Bible's ideals through their incessant "thoughts and prayers".   Yet, it is liberals who  do not make public displays of pretended do goody Christianity who are the ones who actually practice this biblical ideal just about every day.    No thoughts and prayers but actions which speak louder.  That's the basic difference between conservatives and liberals.  

By IkeBana:
My opinion regarding what a liberal might be is pretty simplistic.  Complicated analyses on just about any subject makes my brain hurt and my ADD flare up.  So here goes.  My premise will be rejected by conservative/republicans...it always is.  But I remain invested in it's accuracy.  Conservatives and republicans insist that they are supporters of "smaller gubmint." 

  1.  They say they support reduced government spending, however, take one look at the history of the national debt and you will see that Republican presidential administrations regularly preside over the largest increases in the debt, and particularly when they are supported by republican legislative majorities.  They will always point to Obama...but Obama did what was necessary to stave off a full fledged depression in 2009, through stimulus spending and government take over of various parts of the economy.

  2. they say they support less intrusive government...getting the government off the backs of the people and out of the people's business.  Feh.

  So here's the difference.  Liberal Democrats and Conservative Republicans both want just as much government, just as much spending, and just as much intrusion in the lives of the people.  We just want it in different places from where they want it, for instance...

  I want my nose in their gun locker.  They want their noses in my wife's reproductive organs.  It's not what we do or what they do, it's where we want to do it.

By WryCatcher:

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”
 

By HelloAndGoodby:

There are two basic philosophies of government:  constitutional republic‘s and democracies.

  A republic like the United States is built upon biblical law, God, an all-knowing being having the final word and establishing right from wrong.

  Liberal democratic thinking suggest that finite human wisdom establishes right from wrong.

  for example, biblical creation truth tells us the universe was created several thousand years ago...and when viewing the world like the Grand Canyon that person, that person using Gods word as their foundation interprets it as lots of water and a little bit of time.

  whereas a liberal relies on his own wisdom as their foundation and views the Grand Canyon with lots of time and little bit of water. Backwards.Notice The striking massive difference in conclusions!

  likewise with morality truth. God may reveal to humanity that life inside the womb has value, yet humanity relies on it’s own ideas, doing whatever is right in their own eyes. So many differing opinions.Gay rights, psychics, sex outside of marriage and so on.

there is one saying I love, and that is:’when God goes anything goes’ ....in other words, there is no foundation for absolute truth.
 
 

I will add more to my original post.

What makes a liberal is someone that understands the rights of all people and not just the people in power or at the top of the wealth scale.

Also while being okay with change that helps the community and not just ones self.

As many people know Locke wrote that "Self-Interest is a downfall of Human Nature". Liberals try to reverse this self-interest into helping others while also helping themselves. Helping everyone equally in a sense.

Liberals also go against the narrative of the status quo that has been set up by the establishment to try and suppress people's true opinions and reform.

Liberals also have been on the right side of history in every instance, (Civil Rights, Women's Suffrage, etc, etc....)