Liberal Forum

Here's something I thought I would add. Just free thoughts that go through a persons head each day almost without thinking. The other day I read about how in the arctic circle in Siberia the temperature was the highest ever recorded, over a hundred and one F. And that thought added stress to my day just like it should to any thinking person. The stress that hits the body through the mind because you feel as though there's nothing you can do about it.
What makes a liberal, makes me wonder how does a thinking mind actually operate. We can say for sure that at this time during the summer solstice that part of the Earth is hit with constant light from the sun. And sure, there are a multitude of freak meteorological factors that contributed to this highest temperature ever known to occur. But in thinking about this dilemma, ideology should never come into thinking about the cause and then again thinking about what might be done to address it - if anything could be done.

Is it science based, is it about wanting to learn whether or not this is truly a problem, and then whether or not something can be done? I think it has a lot to do with the thinking mind. The mind that is puzzled about something and then one starts somewhere and then before you know it, the true thinking begins. It's no longer just thought, but actual thinking about a problem
and with that learning, and changing how you view the world.

It's the same thing with economics. The more you think about something, the more you look to find answers. The more you ask questions, the more you reach out to talk to others, the more you practice about learning the tools of statistics, the tools could be new to you as well. This is called thinking, this is how education is supposed to work.

Why does one study history if it's all a lie, at least most of what is taught? Just how did our society get to where it is today, and why. You want to know the truth and so you have to look where you can find it. One thing leads to another. You hear a name, you try to find out about the person behind that name, as well as the period of time that person lived in. And its never ending, and it can change you or anyone else for that matter. It is education, and it's never ending, and it has to at one point in time be self propelled.
One has to go off on their own, not based on platitudes, but on ones own intellectual pursuit.

I do not think that being a liberal is being in a club, it's not a click nor silo.
http://ai.stanford.edu/~csewell/culture/litterms.htm
 

This is just my personal opinion from arguing points with conservatives, especially the Evangelical Right movement.

I will argue as to whether there is a need for Social programs, such as health care, early childhood, education programs, etc; and the response from the conservatives is that the qualifier should be whether minorities, and the poor, are DESERVING of help. The Prosperity Gospel has created a premise that God uses poverty as punishment and character building for the poor. And that social programs interfere with God's Will. If God loved the poor then he he/she would have made them rich. These beliefs are fairly standard for most of the modern conservatives

I really can't argue with people who believe that poverty and want are a deserved punishment. I can argue that the child of a felon needs food, education, child care, dental and health care. All these programs would prevent the child from repeating previous generation's mistakes.

But the only response I get from conservatives is that this family doesn't DESERVE help.

There really isn't any meeting of the minds between these two philosophies.

In biology, two animals of opposite sex, do not make a liberal.
The liberal mind for that matter is not sewn genetically, my dog a female,
is a conservative, once I leave the house for only a few hours during the day I don't know what she does while I am away, but
upon my return she wags her tail as though I have been long gone for a life time, and oh how happy she is,
perhaps in her thinking I would never return.
What makes good is truth. Truth itself is not always good. Truth can be calloused, and immoral, in fact truth shows the worst of all history,
yet, with truth we learn from our own collective mistakes. Knowledge makes good, but it's not free willing.
The liberal is made by focus on the general truth of history. You don't get it once, and then it sticks.
Because the truth is real, you don't get it conditionally, like you might catch a virus. Because there is no cure.
My dog is a conservative, she likes to bury her bones, and this I guess was not a learned trait, rather it was a mechanism within her to store food for survival.
The dog is a social animal. So too is the monkey. I think if I were a poet I might suggest that little bits of each generation get passed down and eventually we evolve ever so slightly in the fabric of time.
Little bits like poems.
So here's one from Robert Frost - just in case you ever wondered why, or if, they wrote about politics mostly back then.
IRIS BY NIGHT
One misty evening, one another's guide,
We two were groping down a Malvern side
The last wet fields and dripping hedges home,
There came a moment of confusing lights,
Such as according to belief in Rome
Were seen of old at Memphis on the heights
Before the fragments of a former sun
Could concentrate anew and rise as one.
Light was paste of pigment in our eyes.
And then there was a moon and then a scene
So watery as to seem submarine;
In which we stood saturated, drowned,
The clover-mingled rowan on the ground
Had taken all the water it could as dew,
And still the air was saturated too,
Its airy pressure turned to water weight,
Then a small rainbow like trellis gate,
A very small moon-made prismatic bow,
Stood closely over us through which to go,
And then we were vouchsafed the miracle
That never yet to other two befell
And I alone of us have lived to tell,
A wonder! Bow and rainbow as it bent,
Instead of moving with us as we went
(To keep the pots of gold from being found),
It lifted from its dewy pediment
Its two mote-swimming many-colored ends
And gathered them together in a ring,
And we stood in it softly circled round
From all division time or foe can bring
In a relation of elected friends.
Robert Frost

We are people, townsfolk, human, family close nit,
there is no such thing as perfect, there is no jewel
hidden within the haystack, there are many,
countless haystacks, countless jewels.
The truth is not perfect. But the truth exist,
And can never be covered up for too long.

The conservatives are not even conservatives anymore.
Those who say they are have only worked at covering up the truth.

The place you visited once that you never forgot. Just being there once was amazing, it held all this history and posted all around paintings and actual pictures of people who lived there in what were deep forests of majestic beauty, some deep sense of parlance within its space that you would keep forever within your thought.
It was the place and the people who inherited its beauty who somehow truly felt indebted to its natural setting. It was a fearsome beauty of ruggedness that was shown in their faces and in their resolve.
It was truth, the kind of truth that could never remain hidden. It was real, and its realness was hallowed and solemn, and its soul would always live on no matter how hard the struggle.
It was the purest poetry minced with hard sweat and tears, it was intellect mixed with empathy, it was characterized by story tellers, who told of actual true characters more rememberable than any made up fictional characters, because they had the time and the need to tell this story, because their lives were hard, and because they did believe in the land, the place, that showed to them the absolute miracle of hope of better days, and not just for some, but for everyone.
Yes, it was partly instinctive, part of being human. We do carry this social genetics around with us. Yes it was instinctive to understand any true limits, and still entertain beauty within difficult and often sad times. Why, built into it was real empathy, being around each other, knowing what people deal with and understanding the frailness all human beings share, and this along with our unified celebrations,
And our deep need to spread any joy and to communicate with one another and to learn so others may benefit from our own mistakes, is that not liberal, is not nature itself liberal as it truly never obfuscates from its own descent. Nature is true, it was not ever hidden, it was always the place, this land that never forgot.
Peace!
 

I have been a liberal my entire adult life and I can boil down my political philosophy to TWO principals

1 Property does not have rights people have rights and those rights must always take precedence over property

2 I never NEVER stand with the powerful against the weak

solon » 12 Oct 2020, 1:10 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2020, 1:10 pm

I have been a liberal my entire adult life and I can boil down my political philosophy to TWO principals

1 Property does not have rights people have rights and those rights must always take precedence over property

2 I never NEVER stand with the powerful against the weak

I like these. Simple and to the point. 

solon » 12 Oct 2020, 1:10 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2020, 1:10 pm

2.  I never NEVER stand with the powerful against the weak

I think this a crucial point that some of our friends within the Democratic Party need to realize. 

We need to put the power back into the people's hands and not the rich and powerful. 

With the correct leadership and organization Democrats will have the chance to win over the disenfranchised and hard working Americans that once carried the Democratic Party to power.  

zkyll8 » 18 Dec 2020, 1:03 pm » wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020, 1:03 pm

I think this a crucial point that some of our friends within the Democratic Party need to realize. 

We need to put the power back into the people's hands and not the rich and powerful. 

With the correct leadership and organization Democrats will have the chance to win over the disenfranchised and hard working Americans that once carried the Democratic Party to power.

For sure the truth is nobody is perfect. People who forgive others likely understand this fact about themselves. Why are they weak with no power, when they are no worse a human specimen than those with might, or the wealthy who have been given the golden key at birth. Surely it is a system that feeds the rich and decimates the poor over time. And this of course makes the world worse off. Forgiveness is essential but forgiveness does not equal reconciliation. You can forgive someone and then walk away from them and never see them again. I heard this bit today on NPR while driving today. In essence we do need to forgive but we also need to see more of the truth as a people. And we need to understand that reparations for those who have been weakened over long periods of societal wrongs is in truth everybody's job. 

The truth is we all want a larger middle class. Where more people can themselves become good stewards to preserve what works the best for all. Then, you have better schools, it's a conservative liberalism, that restores truth while allowing free thought. The magic, the gold if you will, is in the people, how they live and how they contribute to the whole of society is what counts. And yes, that comes from the regular people, the downtrodden too. 

You cannot build a perfect model, you do need to fully reveal true history with all of its warts. There is so much to do, this could one day be seen as a good thing.
Most especially for the young. We need to learn about the past and also understand that mistakes will happen, this is truly something we can and should anticipate. The slippery slope adage defies logic only to those who keep good people down with lies.
 
I would not give much credit to a conservative like James J. Kilpatrick who thought massive organization was needed to fight back against the Supreme Courts ruling in Brown v The Board of Education in thinking that such a ruling upended states rights. Even though it was Kilpatrick who said that for every one angry letter he received from a liberal, he would receive 500 from so-called conservatives bent on wacky conspiratorial theories, such as the John Bircher Society - he said this in 1969 on the Dick Cavett show, which I rewatched the other day. It was interesting to watch because Arthur C. Clark was on that same very show.  

And I remember arguing with my history teacher in tenth grade about the true reason for the civil war. The history book taught back then that the civil war was about states rights. Well it just was not I argued as a fourteen year old, it was about slavery and where that would take us. Lincoln was right. This is the United States, one country, for all the people, and not just some. Black Americans fought in the Revolutionary War, and so too did naturally born Americans. 
And yet, still each State should have power to govern, just like any city should. 

I guess in the end it has to come down to people. Nobody is perfect, but we need to readdress the beauty of all of our diversity. We need to do as such in order to restore a more perfect union. That's what democracy is for. It's not about jingoism. It's not about made up **** patriotic lies. We know those who have gone and fought the wars. Or at least we better understand who they are and why they went because if we don't we all lose sight on hope, and then, nothing's worth much.

Power to the people, if people are the power. And they are, all of them are. Which has nothing in the least bit to do with Nationalism.

BTW, on a podcast I heard some guy say that Trump came along at the exact right time. When people no longer believe in government institutions, it was either Bernie, or the other side filled with lies. Populism can be good or it can be very wrong. Some people can forgive, but with that we need to learn.

 Don't be a prude in the puddin'
Don't use corporate schematic phrases, like "thinking out of the box", without first thinking. 
When in the case of Donald J. Trump, the truth is, we never should have opened that box, since WE ALL should have known ALL TOO WELL what was inside it was terribly wrong!!!

 
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw8GMQsf2qM

It is my opinion that the essence of liberalism can be boiled down to six words:

With liberty and justice for all.

Liberals are notoriously independent of mind.  Gather a hundred conservatives together and ask each for a position on a given issue, you might get three or four different views.  Ask a hundred liberals, you'll get 100 different answers.  So defining liberalism is most likely different for every liberal, but I think you'll find that all agree that those six words are the key to it all.

DrMorbius » 24 Feb 2021, 7:31 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2021, 7:31 pm

 So defining liberalism is most likely different for every liberal, but I think you'll find that all agree that those six words are the key to it all.

I like this. 
 

DrMorbius » 24 Feb 2021, 7:31 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2021, 7:31 pm

It is my opinion that the essence of liberalism can be boiled down to six words:

With liberty and justice for all.

Liberals are notoriously independent of mind.  Gather a hundred conservatives together and ask each for a position on a given issue, you might get three or four different views.  Ask a hundred liberals, you'll get 100 different answers.  So defining liberalism is most likely different for every liberal, but I think you'll find that all agree that those six words are the key to it all.

I have never heard someone call the Republicans a big party tent as they like to call us Liberals. 

I really like this outlook I never thought of it like this.

Liberal , means a generous amount . Conservative means marked by moderation. No real meaning in a political context, literally just polarizing terms promoted by the global corp owned media and exist only to divide you.

TigerLily » 30 Mar 2021, 3:14 am » wrote: ↑

30 Mar 2021, 3:14 am

Liberal , means a generous amount . Conservative means marked by moderation. No real meaning in a political context, literally just polarizing terms promoted by the global corp owned media and exist only to divide you.

Perfectly stated! 
I thought this early on when I first registered to vote at 18. That's why I chose to be independent. I can clearly think on my own and after careful listen to another's thoughtful views I am willing to listen more.
 

Is the news too slanted one way or the other?
First, shouldn't the news be constructed as just true honest journalism without any slant either way?
It seems like we are led down a rabbit hole when we watch or read about the news as though it either condemns or avows our own views.
Maybe it should be labeled differently, the news that is completely factual is just the news - bare bone fact, and then, a thought process of a different angle,
whereby we say, this is a progressive viewpoint, and this is as conservative viewpoint. Viewpoints are not factual, they are opinions.
Propaganda is not news, nor is it new, it's been with us for generations. It was created to fool folks into believing something that perhaps they would easily wish to believe. Propaganda is cheap, well worth the money that is spent to perpetuate half-truths since it works. It does what it was intended to do which is to divide.
Life is short and for most it is hard. All our best collective actions often fall short. Large macro societal mechanisms are difficult to ever fully explain, let alone figure out how to improve.
We are not all collectively in one boat. I think that fact is important to understand.
You hear about people divided a lot these days. Families divided, and not just some odd ball crazy uncle, but siblings who grew up close, suddenly separated so much they cannot even just be themselves when they are together, like the should be, like they once were. What's that Dylan song, Tangled Up in Blue, where he says, we always did feel the same, we just saw it from a different view.
You strive as much as you can, to make an honest life, and the best thing you can do is help anyone you can. And if you succeed at doing this, you know you'll
die feeling satisfied.

 
 

A Liberal is best defined as the opposite of an extremist. Hardcore right-wing Nazis are not Liberal, but neither are hardcore left-wing communists. Fundamentalism of any sort-- an ironclad commitment to one set of ideas, or solutions, no matter what --is not Liberal.

Today, Liberals generally favor increased union presence in the economy. But in 1970, some Liberals may have reasonably believed that unions were corrupt and broken instruments of corruption. It really depends on the situation.

This generally infuriates extremists, fundamentalists of any sort. So Liberals are often blasted by people who are more radical on the left and the right.

splunch » 10 Sep 2021, 10:00 am » wrote: ↑

10 Sep 2021, 10:00 am

A Liberal is best defined as the opposite of an extremist. Hardcore right-wing Nazis are not Liberal, but neither are hardcore left-wing communists. Fundamentalism of any sort-- an ironclad commitment to one set of ideas, or solutions, no matter what --is not Liberal.

Today, Liberals generally favor increased union presence in the economy. But in 1970, some Liberals may have reasonably believed that unions were corrupt and broken instruments of corruption. It really depends on the situation.

This generally infuriates extremists, fundamentalists of any sort. So Liberals are often blasted by people who are more radical on the left and the right.

Welcome, splunch!       Long time no see!  I'm glad you found our little corner of the interwebs.
 

splunch » 10 Sep 2021, 10:00 am » wrote: ↑

10 Sep 2021, 10:00 am

A Liberal is best defined as the opposite of an extremist. Hardcore right-wing Nazis are not Liberal, but neither are hardcore left-wing communists. Fundamentalism of any sort-- an ironclad commitment to one set of ideas, or solutions, no matter what --is not Liberal.

Today, Liberals generally favor increased union presence in the economy. But in 1970, some Liberals may have reasonably believed that unions were corrupt and broken instruments of corruption. It really depends on the situation.

This generally infuriates extremists, fundamentalists of any sort. So Liberals are often blasted by people who are more radical on the left and the right.

Good point
 

Сommitment to real right-wing politics. Democrats stole the concept of freedom from anarchists, republicans and all fighters for real Freedom. Left economics is semi-Marxism, left politics is semi-communism.

bludog » 16 Jun 2020, 5:48 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Jun 2020, 5:48 pm

Thread to contribute your idea of "What makes a Liberal".
This thread is for essays, or shorter tracts;    

This thread is not for rebuttal.  If you want to dispute something, in this thread, please start a separate thread in LO.  
Thanks