Liberal Forum

Vegas » 23 Jul 2021, 10:10 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 10:10 pm

We can't treat viruses as any old death because they mutate. There is already a mutation called the Delta variant. Evidently, this one is worse. The more we ignore it, the stronger it becomes. If a virus is something that we shouldn't get so uptight about, then why should we ever worry about nations using it as a biological weapon? Malaria killed millions.

So you would be worried about states developing biological weapons, because they totally would, right?

Polar1ty » 23 Jul 2021, 9:17 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 9:17 pm

If someone is attempting to sell you something, whether it's a penny stock or managed fund that supposedly returns 30% a year or a "vaccine," an intelligent person would do his DD and not take the word of the seller at face value.

I would estimate 75% of the information fed to you by the (((media))) on Covid-19 has been misleading or downright false. It reminds me of when China released videos of people "collapsing" on the streets. I don't recall a single instance of that happening here in the United States (even with all the relentless media propaganda), so either the Chinese got really unlucky (and by really unlucky I'm talking about 1 in 100 million odds) or they were lying. Guess which one I'm going to go with?

If someone lies 75% of the time, does that not raise suspicions? Do you still trust that person's motives? If they have honorable intentions why would they need to lie so much?

You didn't answer my questions and dismissed them. Likewise I will dismiss your garbage about how people should take a vaccine cuz some 30-39 year old (out of millions of 30-39 year olds in the US) died.

If you can give me actual evidence that we are being lied to, then I would be happy to examine it. As of now, you are just suspicious. I would prefer proof and evidence of you can show me this. 

FOS » 23 Jul 2021, 10:13 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 10:13 pm

So you would be worried about states developing biological weapons, because they totally would, right?

My point is that if this virus is no big deal, then why would they be considered as a tenable weapon? 

Vegas » 23 Jul 2021, 10:15 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 10:15 pm

My point is that if this virus is no big deal, then why would they be considered as a tenable weapon?

I never said the virus is no big deal.

my argument is that i dont trust our leaders.

I think they want me dead.

FOS » 23 Jul 2021, 10:17 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 10:17 pm

I never said the virus is no big deal.

my argument is that i dont trust our leaders.

I think they want me dead.

yep, me too.  

It’s not paranoia when they really ARE out to get you.

FOS » 23 Jul 2021, 10:17 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 10:17 pm

I never said the virus is no big deal.

my argument is that i dont trust our leaders.

I think they want me dead.

Our leaders have never been trustworthy. it's been that way since 1776. That's why my conclusion is solely based on the findings of the researchers and scientists. 

Vegas » 24 Jul 2021, 12:24 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 12:24 am

Our leaders have never been trustworthy. it's been that way since 1776. That's why my conclusion is solely based on the findings of the researchers and scientists.

Scientists have no power.

did chernobyl melt down because of bad scientists? no, it was the state cutting corners to save money.

It really doesnt matter if the scientists themselves even have good intentions, especially if any 'misinformation' a well meaning scientist whistleblower might try to get out there is immediately censored.

FOS » 24 Jul 2021, 12:57 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 12:57 am

Scientists have no power.

did chernobyl melt down because of bad scientists? no, it was the state cutting corners to save money.

It really doesnt matter if the scientists themselves even have good intentions, especially if any 'misinformation' a well meaning scientist whistleblower might try to get out there is immediately censored.

Leaders have the power, not the scientist. Yes, that is true. However, that doesn't mean that I don't have a choice to follow the science.

Vegas » 23 Jul 2021, 10:14 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 10:14 pm

If you can give me actual evidence that we are being lied to, then I would be happy to examine it. As of now, you are just suspicious. I would prefer proof and evidence of you can show me this.

Safe and effective is unknown. We have no idea what the long term side effects might be. Stating an unknown as a known is a lie. I don't see scientists making this mistake but those promoting the vaccine are certainly guilty. 
 

Vegas » 24 Jul 2021, 1:14 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:14 am

Leaders have the power, not the scientist. Yes, that is true. However, that doesn't mean that I don't have a choice to follow the science.

it means exactly that. 

look...i can assure you that in the soviet union countless biologists knew damn well that darwinian evolution was the superior theory.

but the USSR outlawed darwinian evolution, instead insisting on lamarckism.

I seriously doubt that if you were some average guy in the USSR that there would be any chance you could figure out that lamarckism is false and darwinian evolution was simply better. And because scientists didnt want to go to prison, there is little chance they could inform you about that.

and anyway...what DOES the science say? under 1% of the people infected seem to die. Meaning that if you die, you were unlucky.

So compare...what are the odds that this 'vaccine' is worse than the disease...thanks to either malice or incompetence or both?

I think way over 1%. Especially because it is literally fiddling with your damn genetics. You are willing to give our leaders access to your genetics?

Neo » 24 Jul 2021, 1:14 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:14 am

Safe and effective is unknown. We have no idea what the long term side effects might be. Stating an unknown as a known is a lie. I don't see scientists making this mistake but those promoting the vaccine are certainly guilty.

We live on unknowns everyday, but we still trust that our lives will be safe anyway. The food we eat, the bridges we drive over, the homes we live in, the planes we fly on..etc...our safety is in the hands of the researchers/engineers/scientist who designed these things. It's all faith. We have faith that they know what they are doing and that our lives will be safe under their expertise. This is no different. I am not paranoid that my home wasn't built safely by some multimillion housing company anymore than I should be paranoid that the scientists who developed this vaccine did it unsafely, though they work for a multibillion dollar company. 

Vegas » 23 Jul 2021, 11:58 am » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 11:58 am

Look, anti-vaccinators, we all have a right to our opinion about things.

Ok, I'll give you mine...

What I don't think you understand is that the virus doesn't give a **** about your opinion.

What I don't think you understand is that we don't give a **** about the evil virus fearmongering

If you want to think it's a ll one big hoax so big drug companies can make billions, and whatever other conspiracies, then have it. Whatever. Nonetheless, the virus doesn't give a **** about your conspiracies. The fact is that this guy would be alive if he was vaccinated.

The fact is that we also don't give a **** about one guy among millions dying... it sucks for him but **** happens...

Can any anti-vaccinator here deny that this guy would still be alive if he was vaccinated?

I could but I can't know for sure... just like you can't be sure the vaccine would have saved him... if the vaccine saves people why should I let myself get injected with an experimental medicine in order to protect other people.... if the other people are afraid of the virus they can get the vaccine if they want to... so what's the problem?

....Why not get vaccinated to protect the elderly?

Why not vaccinate the elderly to protect them against me instead..... can you see the problem with your logic?

 



 
 

FOS » 24 Jul 2021, 1:23 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:23 am

it means exactly that. 

look...i can assure you that in the soviet union countless biologists knew damn well that darwinian evolution was the superior theory.

but the USSR outlawed darwinian evolution, instead insisting on lamarckism.

I seriously doubt that if you were some average guy in the USSR that there would be any chance you could figure out that lamarckism is false and darwinian evolution was simply better. And because scientists didnt want to go to prison, there is little chance they could inform you about that.

and anyway...what DOES the science say? under 1% of the people infected seem to die. Meaning that if you die, you were unlucky.

So compare...what are the odds that this 'vaccine' is worse than the disease...thanks to either malice or incompetence or both?

I think way over 1%. Especially because it is literally fiddling with your damn genetics. You are willing to give our leaders access to your genetics?

The difference is obvious. Evidently, in the USSR, the people had to do what they were told from the government. I choose to be vaccinated here. We all do. Their is no force. 

Like I said, I am more worried about the mutations. That is what viruses do. They start off somewhat harmless to most of the population, but if they are allowed to mature, they turn into a **** formidable force that can kill millions. Malaria, smallpox, syphilis, marburg, HIV, ebola, hantavirus, dengue virus, rotavirus, SARS, and many more were mutations of a less deadly virus. These viruses have killed millions. 

Vegas » 23 Jul 2021, 11:58 am » wrote: ↑

23 Jul 2021, 11:58 am

Look, anti-vaccinators, we all have a right to our opinion about things. What I don't think you understand is that the virus doesn't give a **** about your opinion. If you want to think it's a ll one big hoax so big drug companies can make billions, and whatever other conspiracies, then have it. Whatever. Nonetheless, the virus doesn't give a **** about your conspiracies. The fact is that this guy would be alive if he was vaccinated. 

Can any anti-vaccinator here deny that this guy would still be alive if he was vaccinated?

A California man in his early 30s who derided vaccines on Twitter and Instagram died of COVID-19 (msn.com)

St. Louis brings back mask mandate amid huge surge in COVID cases in Missouri as officials blame superspreader tourist town called Branson where the mayor is an anti-masker and almost 20% of residents are infected

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... longs.html

• Missouri is seeing a surge in coronavirus cases, particularly in the south west
• Only 40 per cent of the state is fully vaccinated, placing it in the bottom 12
• On Friday St Louis reintroduced a mask mandate for indoor public areas 
• Kansas City, the largest in the state, is expected to follow suit
• Springfield, in the south west of Missouri, is braced for surge in hospitalizations
• One town, Branson, 40 miles from Springfield, is thought to be at the epicenter
• The first Delta variant was recorded there on May 10 before spreading statewide
• Branson is famed for its country music shows and its anti mask mayor 

Dr Marc Johnson of the University of Missouri School of Medicine has blamed the small tourist town of Branson for the state-wide surge, calling it 'ground zero' for the high infection rates.

'Branson has a lot of country-western shows,' he told Daily Beast. 'No Vaccines. No masks. A bunch of people indoors and air conditioning, tightly packed, listening to music, possibly singing along, i.e. a superspreading event.'

 Johnson, who oversees a statewide program to monitor COVID-19 via wastewater samples, said they first spotted the Delta variant in Branson on May 10 - which quickly spread to surrounding towns.  'By week three, it was already pretty much everywhere,' he said.

The last sample from anywhere in Missouri that did not contain the Delta variant was on June 7.  Delta was followed by a spike in cases within three weeks, wherever it appeared.

'It's pretty scary,' Johnson said. 'I don't know that the Branson is what seeded the entire outbreak in Missouri.  'But I always suspected.'

As the rest of the state shuts down, the town that caused the trouble is continuing like the pandemic never happened.

 The infection rate for Branson and surrounding Taney County is 19.3 per cent, and there are 54 new cases a day in a county population of 57,000, which is 10 times the national per capita average. More than two-thirds of the population are unvaccinated, 

 
 

Vegas » 24 Jul 2021, 1:36 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:36 am

The difference is obvious. Evidently, in the USSR, the people had to do what they were told from the government. I choose to be vaccinated here. We all do. Their is no force. 

Like I said, I am more worried about the mutations. That is what viruses do. They start off somewhat harmless to most of the population, but if they are allowed to mature, they turn into a **** formidable force that can kill millions. Malaria, smallpox, syphilis, marburg, HIV, ebola, hantavirus, dengue virus, rotavirus, SARS, and many more were mutations of a less deadly virus. These viruses have killed millions.

first of all...the USSR ruled people with brute force. I actually would kinda prefer that. IN the usa, they **** you. But i personally see little difference objectively between the 2 methods in whether i trust what i hear.

the USA probably lies a lot more than the USSR ever did, because at least the USSR wasnt trying to make you insane...only afraid.

this 'vaccine' is not a vaccine...which means it does not prevent any spread of the virus or any mutations.

Jantje_Smit » 24 Jul 2021, 1:30 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:30 am

Why not vaccinate the elderly to protect them against me instead..... can you see the problem with your logic?

Given that this is the only line of your post that wasn't rooted in politics,  I'll respond to it.  Keep in mind, I am just looking at the science. I could care less what either political side says, or what any media says. The research only is what I am basing my conclusions on.  

My logic appears to be quite sound. The elderly are the ones that are threatened by this the most. Therefore, they should be protected the most. Appears logical to me. 
 

FOS » 24 Jul 2021, 1:40 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:40 am

this 'vaccine' is not a vaccine...

Then what is it?

Vegas » 24 Jul 2021, 1:46 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:46 am

Then what is it?

it alters your mRNA (part of your genetics) in an attempt to decrease the 'symptoms' of the virus.

But does absolutely nothing to prevent the spread of the virus.

It does not give you antibodies.

Vegas » 24 Jul 2021, 1:46 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:46 am

Then what is it?

And actually, i am just telling you the official narrative.

the point of this 'vaccine' might have nothing to do with COVID at all as far as i know.

like i said, i dont trust.
 

Vegas » 24 Jul 2021, 1:45 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021, 1:45 am

Given that this is the only line of your post that wasn't rooted in politics,  I'll respond to it. 

Eh, none of my lines was rooted in politics.... that's just the way I see it...

Keep in mind, I am just looking at the science. I could care less what either political side says, or what any media says.

Funny, you seem to care a lot about what the media says about one guy... just one.. dying because(?) he didn't get vaccinated...

The research only is what I am basing my conclusions on.  

I did my own research... and some basic statistics.. and came to the only logical conclusion... something smells... and I'm not going to let myself get injected with an experimental medicine in the hope of avoiding a bad case of the flu... and maybe I already had the virus, I was pretty sick for a few days last year... but that could also have been the flu... oh, wait.... that can't be...

Funny thing, did you know the flu doesn't exist anymore?

My logic appears to be quite sound. The elderly are the ones that are threatened by this the most. Therefore, they should be protected the most. Appears logical to me.

You're avoiding the question... if the vaccine works why should I get vaccinated in order to protect the ones at risk.. why not vaccinate them instead?