Liberal Forum

Complaints can be leveled at electrics for merely existing.
Cold weather.
Range.
Recharge issues.
Tax break pricing.
Recyclability.

This article isn't new info. Enjoy.

Is driving an electric car immoral? Here's what they DON'T tell you
June 19, 2022 WND
Driving an EV has been heralded as a moral virtue and, of late, the solution to record-high gas prices. There's certainly a benefit from curbing air pollution, but the question is, at what cost?
In a column highlighted by Powerline blogger John Hinderaker, engineer and energy expert Ronald Stein examines the source of the power and the materials in batteries. He concludes ethical questions are raised by the conditions under which the materials are mined.
Stein argues in "Is it ethical to purchase a lithium battery powered EV?" that entire mountains are eliminated by just one lithium mine.

"Each mine consists of 35-40 797 Caterpillar haul trucks along with hundreds of other large equipment," he writes. "Each 797 uses around half a million gallons of diesel a year. An inventory of just thirty-five trucks alone is using 17.5 million gallons of fuel a year for just one lithium site."

 An EV battery weighs 1,000 pounds, contains 25 pounds of lithium, 60 pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel and plastic. Inside are 6,000 lithium-ion cells."

"All those toxic components come from mining," he writes. "To manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper.
All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery."

 Stein authored "Clean Energy Exploitations: Helping Citizens Understand." 

Stein argues that fossil fuels are vastly cleaner, partly because they are so efficient. Once the mining and environmental degradation are complete, EV's in reality run overwhelmingly on fossil fuels and nuclear power. An EV only stores electricity that is produced elsewhere. And the sources primarily are coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants and occasionally the wind and the sun.
 "To say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid as 80 percent of the electricity generated to charge the batteries is from coal, natural gas, and nuclear". In effect, 20% of the EVs on the road are powered by coal, 40% by natural gas and 20% by nuclear power.

 Hinderaker adds that the extraordinary volume of mining needed to produce electric vehicles not only is "environmentally disastrous," it also carries "large human costs."

The cobalt that is needed for EV's comes mostly from the Congo, where UNCF estimates 40,000 children are working in cobalt mines. He emphasizes that the solar panels that produce some of the energy stored in EV batteries are mostly produced by slave labor in China. "For what it’s worth, Chinese solar panels are produced with coal-fired power plants."

 Hinderaker concludes:"Green" energy is a catastrophically bad idea. I think many people understand that wind and solar power and electric vehicles are economically ruinous, but when we also take into account environmental degradation and child and slave labor, one can seriously question whether it is immoral to buy an electric car.

 
 

DeezerShoove » 20 Jun 2022, 10:42 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 10:42 am

Complaints can be leveled at electrics for merely existing.
Cold weather.
Range.
Recharge issues.
Tax break pricing.
Recyclability.

This article isn't new info. Enjoy.

Is driving an electric car immoral? Here's what they DON'T tell you
June 19, 2022 WND
Driving an EV has been heralded as a moral virtue and, of late, the solution to record-high gas prices. There's certainly a benefit from curbing air pollution, but the question is, at what cost?
In a column highlighted by Powerline blogger John Hinderaker, engineer and energy expert Ronald Stein examines the source of the power and the materials in batteries. He concludes ethical questions are raised by the conditions under which the materials are mined.
Stein argues in "Is it ethical to purchase a lithium battery powered EV?" that entire mountains are eliminated by just one lithium mine.

"Each mine consists of 35-40 797 Caterpillar haul trucks along with hundreds of other large equipment," he writes. "Each 797 uses around half a million gallons of diesel a year. An inventory of just thirty-five trucks alone is using 17.5 million gallons of fuel a year for just one lithium site."

 An EV battery weighs 1,000 pounds, contains 25 pounds of lithium, 60 pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel and plastic. Inside are 6,000 lithium-ion cells."

"All those toxic components come from mining," he writes. "To manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper.
All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery."

 Stein authored "Clean Energy Exploitations: Helping Citizens Understand." 


 

The two issues I have with EVs are the child slave labor and the recycling of the batteries. These mines are mostly dug by children. 

What is the plan for the batteries at the end of their use?
 

Yet you don't mind whole mountains being wiped out in W. Virginia for the Orange Pigs "CLEAN COAL" do ya? And ash slurry burrying whole towns!        
 

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 10:45 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 10:45 am

The two issues I have with EVs are the child slave labor and the recycling of the batteries. These mines are mostly dug by children. 

What is the plan for the batteries at the end of their use?

I have posted about that previously.

The "End of Life" with an EV is dubious at best.
Worst part is that half-ton poison box...

The entire life cycle of a steel car the burned fossils vs that wonderful green car driven by smug assholes...
This has always been a terrible comparison so it gets pushed back. Nobody should see it.

But, an industry has popped up.
Factories, peoples' jobs, legislation, reputations, etc. have become support structures to this sham.
Of course, the libs and  media were already sucking green tit... The parade of assholes just got bigger.

Many people, repeat, MANY people inside the sham know it for what it is. Can't easily stop the train.
 

I mean...there is no such thing as an electric car.

They are coal.powered.

nuckinfutz » 20 Jun 2022, 10:47 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 10:47 am

Yet you don't mind whole mountains being wiped out in W. Virginia for the Orange Pigs "CLEAN COAL" do ya? And ash slurry burrying whole towns!      

I drive the West Va on 64 quite often.  Mountains look fine to me.  Also, my daughter lived there for a few years.  

Next, I suggest the EV crowd drive thru West Va on 64 with their EVs.  With Temps in the 30s.  The hills and the temp will GREATLY reduce your range.  

FOS » 20 Jun 2022, 11:07 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 11:07 am

I mean...there is no such thing as an electric car.

They are coal.powered.

You have to look at the life cycle of the thing like the "Hockey Stick Graph" the climate freaks were pushing. 
EV's are fantastic while whizzing along in between charging stations.

DeezerShoove » 20 Jun 2022, 11:13 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 11:13 am

You have to look at the life cycle of the thing like the "Hockey Stick Graph" the climate freaks were pushing. 
EV's are fantastic while whizzing along in between charging stations.

On relatively flat ground and Temps over 60.

DeezerShoove » 20 Jun 2022, 11:13 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 11:13 am

You have to look at the life cycle of the thing like the "Hockey Stick Graph" the climate freaks were pushing. 
EV's are fantastic while whizzing along in between charging stations.

Literally none of the people who pretend to give a **** about climate change are mentally disciplined enough to be educated on it. 

That says a lot. 

They just WANT to freak out over something. They don't care what
 

FOS » 20 Jun 2022, 11:17 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 11:17 am

Literally none of the people who pretend to give a **** about climate change are mentally disciplined enough to be educated on it. 

That says a lot. 

They just WANT to freak out over something. They don't care what

I can't find a thing there to disagree with.  

I just looked at an "instructional overview" about modern electric cars and just learned that the steering wheel is not physically connected to the front wheels via any mechanical linkage.

The massive battery bank for EV cars occupies the space that is normal used for mechanical steering linkage...so as a "work around" the front wheels rely on electro-mechanical servo motors at the wheels to resolve the "information that is transmitted from the sending unit at the steering wheel to keep your car "rightsideup and between the ditches" without fail......
This system works on commercial jets..but there are usually 2 redundant systems built in for back up.

Staplophobia » 20 Jun 2022, 1:07 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 1:07 pm

YOU DUMB MOTHER ****!
THE MOUNTAINS DO NOT GO ANYWHERE!
NOW IS THE TIME TO BEG JINN FOR MORE MONEY

MuhAMMED MUST GO TO THE MOUNTAIN! THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO HIM!      
And you surely will burn in Hell!t is written!      
 

"Is it ethical to purchase a lithium battery powered EV?" that entire mountains are eliminated by just one lithium mine.

"Each mine consists of 35-40 797 Caterpillar haul trucks along with hundreds of other large equipment," he writes. "Each 797 uses around half a million gallons of diesel a year. An inventory of just thirty-five trucks alone is using 17.5 million gallons of fuel a year for just one lithium site."

 An EV battery weighs 1,000 pounds, contains 25 pounds of lithium, 60 pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds of cobalt, 200 pounds of copper and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel and plastic. Inside are 6,000 lithium-ion cells."

"All those toxic components come from mining," he writes. "To manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper.
All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery."

 Stein authored "Clean Energy Exploitations: Helping Citizens Understand." 

Stein argues that fossil fuels are vastly cleaner, partly because they are so efficient. Once the mining and environmental degradation are complete, EV's in reality run overwhelmingly on fossil fuels and nuclear power. An EV only stores electricity that is produced elsewhere. And the sources primarily are coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants and occasionally the wind and the sun.
 "To say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid as 80 percent of the electricity generated to charge the batteries is from coal, natural gas, and nuclear". In effect, 20% of the EVs on the road are powered by coal, 40% by natural gas and 20% by nuclear power.

 Hinderaker adds that the extraordinary volume of mining needed to produce electric vehicles not only is "environmentally disastrous," it also carries "large human costs."

The cobalt that is needed for EV's comes mostly from the Congo, where UNCF estimates 40,000 children are working in cobalt mines. He emphasizes that the solar panels that produce some of the energy stored in EV batteries are mostly produced by slave labor in China. "For what it’s worth, Chinese solar panels are produced with coal-fired power plants."

 Hinderaker concludes:"Green" energy is a catastrophically bad idea. I think many people understand that wind and solar power and electric vehicles are economically ruinous, but when we also take into account environmental degradation and child and slave labor, one can seriously question whether it is immoral to buy an electric car.

KAUST researchers have now developed an economically viable system that can extract high-purity lithium from seawater. The oceans contain about 5,000 times more lithium than the land but at extremely low concentrations of about 0.2 parts per million (ppm).Jun 3, 2021

https://www.eurekalert.org › news-r...Electrochemical cell harvests lithium from seawater - EurekAlert
 

The whole EV is not well thought out.
It's great if you live in a bog city with a lot of charging stations.
In my town there in 1 charging station (I have never seen anyone at it).
I think there are 1 or 2 in a town about 25 miles west. Other than that, the closest is in Duluth at 65 miles away.
They are not practical for rural America.
Also, what about the military?
Are the tanks going to be electric?
Commercial Airplanes?
I don't think so.

AnnoyedLiberall » 20 Jun 2022, 3:15 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 3:15 pm

The whole EV is not well thought out.
It's great if you live in a bog city with a lot of charging stations.
In my town there in 1 charging station (I have never seen anyone at it).
I think there are 1 or 2 in a town about 25 miles west. Other than that, the closest is in Duluth at 65 miles away.
They are not practical for rural America.
Also, what about the military?
Are the tanks going to be electric?
Commercial Airplanes?
I don't think so.

For someone like you (I won’t mention where you live) who lives in an area with extreme cold, snow and I assume some good hills you would get no where near the range advertised.

Huey » 20 Jun 2022, 3:17 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 3:17 pm

For someone like you (I won’t mention where you live) who lives in an area with extreme cold, snow and I assume some good hills you would get no where near the range advertised.

Not even close.
Not even if I spent the extra 5 grand for the extended life battery.
-40 is not kind to anything, let alone electric vehicles.

Huey » 20 Jun 2022, 3:17 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 3:17 pm

For someone like you (I won’t mention where you live) who lives in an area with extreme cold, snow and I assume some good hills you would get no where near the range advertised.

Also....don't the LIPO batteries rely on SMART CHARGERS to sense the batteries state so that the charge rate may be tailored to the batteries best health...long term...?
A charge rate that is as fast as what the battery should safely accept without drastically lessening it's normal lifespan...?

What if a Charging Station has a "Smart Charger" malfunction that ends up damaging / shortening the service life of 100s of batteries before the problem is discovered...?
The problem could go on for quite awhile before discovery and very few people [if any] could point to THE  charging station that "cooked" their battery.
 
 

AnnoyedLiberall » 20 Jun 2022, 3:21 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 3:21 pm

Not even close.
Not even if I spent the extra 5 grand for the extended life battery.
-40 is not kind to anything, let alone electric vehicles.

I’m not even talking about the life,  I’m talking about the miles per charge.  I have a great hybrid that I drive and get 55 MPG in the spring, summer and early fall.   BUT, I drive 70 miles a day on flat roads and mostly interstate.  In the winter p, which aren’t anywhere neat yours, I drop to 49 to 50.  When I drive they the mountains in Va/WV that drops to 43 in the winter.  

Driving a straight EV with what is available today, in those conditions, you would have to stop every 100 miles to charge up.

AnnoyedLiberall » 20 Jun 2022, 3:15 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 3:15 pm

The whole EV is not well thought out.
It's great if you live in a bog city with a lot of charging stations.
In my town there in 1 charging station (I have never seen anyone at it).
I think there are 1 or 2 in a town about 25 miles west. Other than that, the closest is in Duluth at 65 miles away.
They are not practical for rural America.
Also, what about the military?
Are the tanks going to be electric?
Commercial Airplanes?
I don't think so.

#BlueWave2022

Huey » 20 Jun 2022, 3:36 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 3:36 pm

I’m not even talking about the life,  I’m talking about the miles per charge.  I have a great hybrid that I drive and get 55 MPG in the spring, summer and early fall.   BUT, I drive 70 miles a day on flat roads and mostly interstate.  In the winter p, which aren’t anywhere neat yours, I drop to 49 to 50.  When I drive they the mountains in Va/WV that drops to 43 in the winter.  

Driving a straight EV with what is available today, in those conditions, you would have to stop every 100 miles to charge up.

I "resto-modded"  a 78 280Z with a 415 HP FORD 347.
415 HP at 2700 pounds all up weight...  
After re-engineering the entire car I only had enough room left  for a 10 gallon gas tank..so it's cruisin' range is about the same as the straight EV.....