Liberal Forum

Is is a marketing term?  Is there a specific requirement?   I've already admitted I know nothing about guns.
 

So, Is it easier to kill more people with an AR-15 or a standard hand pistol?

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 1:14 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 1:14 pm

Is is a marketing term?  Is there a specific requirement?   I've already admitted I know nothing about guns.

An "Assault Rifle" is a full-auto (actually select-fire) relatively light-weight rifle.  By light weight, I mean it doesn't take more than one person to carry it or operate it. The term originates from Sturmgewehr (literal translation "Storm Gun") - the German WWII StG44, which to you would look something like an AK-47.  Because it is full-auto and not semi-auto, they are highly regulated under the National Firearms Act.

An "Assault Weapon" is a made up term.  It is a rip-off or take off of the long recognized term "Assault Rifle".  The term Assault Weapon has no intrinsic meaning outside of how it is defined in various pieces of legislation.  Originally, the term was used in the Federal Assault Weapon Ban.  It described various features which were mostly cosmetic and had little or nothing to do with the gun's function.  Other state Assault Weapon laws have different definitions.  Most Gun People, will tell you the term is meaningless. I tend to disagree, since the federal Assault Weapon's ban did actually define what an Assault Weapon is.  The problem is, that since the ban sunsetted, there really is no one definition of what an Assault Weapon would be, and it has no root historical definition.

However, generally speaking, non-gun people view Assault Weapons as semi-auto firearms (as opposed to full-auto where you just hold the trigger down and it automatically chambers rounds, fires on and on) which looks "military", with pistol grips and rails to mount optics, laser-sights, flashlights, etc.  Since the Assault Weapon ban, non-gun people view "Assault Rifles" as those types of weapons banned by the federal Assault Weapon ban, but which are categorized as rifles (long-gun) as opposed to pistols.  Also, there are some semi-auto versions of military-looking submachine pistols which are also lumped into "Assault Weapons".  And, all of this is where the disconnect and confusion comes in when gun-people discuss guns with non-gun people.

Sites Spectre - Semi-Auto version of an Italian machine-pistol which looks identical to this.  The only difference is the real one is select-fire, full-auto.  But, that's a big difference.  The semi-auto version would still be classified as an Assault Weapon under some legislation.


StG44 - Original Sturmgewehr, "Storm Gun" a/k/a Assault Rifle
Full-auto machinegun.


 
Semi-Auto AK or Kalishnakov - Not full-auto capable, but classified as an Assault Weapon under some legislation

Ruger Min-14 - functionally, very similar in operation to the above, but made more to look like a hunting rifle.

Skans » 20 Jun 2022, 1:54 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 1:54 pm

An "Assault Rifle" is a full-auto (actually select-fire) relatively light-weight rifle.  By light weight, I mean it doesn't take more than one person to carry it or operate it. The term originates from Sturmgewehr (literal translation "Storm Gun") - the German WWII StG44, which to you would look something like an AK-47.  Because it is full-auto and not semi-auto, they are highly regulated under the National Firearms Act.

An "Assault Weapon" is a made up term.  It is a rip-off or take off of the long recognized term "Assault Rifle".  The term Assault Weapon has no intrinsic meaning outside of how it is defined in various pieces of legislation.  Originally, the term was used in the Federal Assault Weapon Ban.  It described various features which were mostly cosmetic and had little or nothing to do with the gun's function.  Other state Assault Weapon laws have different definitions.  Most Gun People, will tell you the term is meaningless. I tend to disagree, since the federal Assault Weapon's ban did actually define what an Assault Weapon is.  The problem is, that since the ban sunsetted, there really is no one definition of what an Assault Weapon would be, and it has no root historical definition.

However, generally speaking, non-gun people view Assault Weapons as semi-auto firearms (as opposed to full-auto where you just hold the trigger down and it automatically chambers rounds, fires on and on) which looks "military", with pistol grips and rails to mount optics, laser-sights, flashlights, etc.  Since the Assault Weapon ban, non-gun people view "Assault Rifles" as those types of weapons banned by the federal Assault Weapon ban, but which are categorized as rifles (long-gun) as opposed to pistols.  And, this is where the disconnect and confusion comes in when gun-people discuss guns with non-gun people.

thank you for your informative and respectful answer.

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 2:01 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:01 pm

thank you for your informative and respectful answer  THAT FLEW IN MY LEFT EAR AND OUT MY RIGHT EAR WITHOUT EVEN SLOWING DOWN.

 
 
 

I don't have assault rifles, I have defence rifles

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 2:01 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:01 pm

thank you for your informative and respectful answer.

Skans, too, is grateful...

GHETTOBLASTER » 20 Jun 2022, 2:04 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:04 pm

Skans read the citation I posted.

Perhaps you should too.

:rofl:  
 

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 1:14 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 1:14 pm

Is is a marketing term?  Is there a specific requirement?   I've already admitted I know nothing about guns.

Neither do the dems.  No offense Scott...but the dems DO want our guns.

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 1:26 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 1:26 pm

So, Is it easier to kill more people with an AR-15 or a standard hand pistol?

Hopefully. Have you ever seen a group of pissed of meth heads? They will charge anyone for money. I'll take the AR over a pistol, easily. Showing a pistol to a meth head wont register to them. They are out of their mind. They just need to be mowed down as quickly as possibly. 

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 1:26 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 1:26 pm

So, Is it easier to kill more people with an AR-15 or a standard hand pistol?

This really depends on 1) distance and 2) skill set. Pistols are quite effective and more maneuverable at shorter distances.  Rifles are designed to increase accuracy at longer distances.

So, the question you really need to ask is: "At distance X, in a (choose one)   room  or  outside  which firearm would you choose?" 
 

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 2:01 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:01 pm

thank you for your informative and respectful answer.

You're welcome.  
 

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 1:14 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 1:14 pm

Is is a marketing term?  Is there a specific requirement?   I've already admitted I know nothing about guns.

And the US Army Definition:The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."[18] In this strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]

• It must be capable of selective fire.
• It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle, examples of intermediate cartridges are the 7.92×33mm Kurz, the 7.62×39mm and 5.56×45mm NATO.
• Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.[5]
• It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are not assault rifles according to the U.S. Army's definition. For example:

• Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 180 metres (200 yd).[19]
• Select-fire rifles such as the Fedorov Avtomat, FN FAL, M14, and H&K G3 main battle rifles are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
• Semi-automatic-only rifles like the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.
• Semi-automatic-only rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.

Look at what is not considered an assault rifle.

 @Blackvegetable  
 

Blackvegetable » 20 Jun 2022, 2:12 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:12 pm

Skans read the citation I posted.

Perhaps you should too.

If you understood it that means the civilian AR 15s ARE NOT assault rifles by definition.  

You can’t play the citation both ways.  

Huey » 20 Jun 2022, 2:27 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:27 pm

And the US Army Definition:The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."[18] In this strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]

• It must be capable of selective fire.
• It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle, examples of intermediate cartridges are the 7.92×33mm Kurz, the 7.62×39mm and 5.56×45mm NATO.
• Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.[5]
• It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are not assault rifles according to the U.S. Army's definition. For example:

• Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 180 metres (200 yd).[19]
• Select-fire rifles such as the Fedorov Avtomat, FN FAL, M14, and H&K G3 main battle rifles are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
• Semi-automatic-only rifles like the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.
• Semi-automatic-only rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.

Look at what is not considered an assault rifle.

 @Blackvegetable

Thank you for your informative and respectful answer.  I will keep this in mind.
 

ScottMon » 20 Jun 2022, 2:34 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:34 pm

Thank you for your informative and respectful answer.  I will keep this in mind.

Your welcome.

Huey » 20 Jun 2022, 2:33 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:33 pm

If you understood it that means the civilian AR 15s ARE NOT assault rifles by definition.  

You can’t play the citation both ways.

No...don't extrapolate, Reframy.



 

Blackvegetable » 20 Jun 2022, 2:38 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:38 pm

Huey » 20 Jun 2022, 2:33 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:33 pm

If you understood it that means the civilian AR 15s ARE NOT assault rifles by definition.  

You can’t play the citation both ways.

No...don't extrapolate, Reframy.



 

 

Actually, you have just destroyed your argument that the civilian semi auto AR 15 style weapons are assault weapons.  They are not.

Next, all that BS about ammunition was false.  By definition Assault Rifles use an intermediate power cartridge.  More than a pistol, LESS than a standard rifle or battle rifle.

You have just ended all debate on the topic.

I thought the British attacked Concord because that is where the militia stored their weapons and gunpowder?

My point is that I don’t think the second amendment was about being able to walk about everyday with guns.

I think it is about the right to store arms should your tyrannical government need to be overthrown.
Just strict interpretation.

Huey » 20 Jun 2022, 2:45 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 2:45 pm

Actually, you have just destroyed your argument that the civilian semi auto AR 15 style weapons are assault weapons.  They are not.

Next, all that BS about ammunition was false.  By definition Assault Rifles use an intermediate power cartridge.  More than a pistol, LESS than a standard rifle or battle rifle.

You have just ended all debate on the topic.

What is with the mindless repetition of the reframy, Reframy?