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Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm

Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

The "Civil War South" has enough of everything to be self sufficient. 
The "Civil War South" as an independent nation  would resemble what Ukraine looks like parked next to Russia today.
 The "Civil War South" might have done a better job of sending the STONE AGE JUNGLE SAVAGES BACK TO AFRICA after mechanised farm equipment was rolled out....but we will never know.
 
 
 

GHETTOBLASTER » 20 Jun 2022, 4:10 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:10 pm

The "Civil War South" has enough of everything to be self sufficient. 
The "Civil War South" as an independent nation  would resemble what Ukraine looks like parked next to Russia today.

Just as Russia invaded Ukraine, I think eventually America would have tried to get the South back by invading them. 

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:12 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:12 pm

Just as Russia invaded Ukraine, I think eventually America would have tried to get the South back by invading them.

True..but this hypothetical scenario of yours grants the Civil War south with enough military power to keep that from happening.
 

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm

Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

yes. Industrial revolution was in full speed ahead when it started and it didn't slow down after it was over.

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm

Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

If the South had won, what would they have done with the North? Reconstruction?

Unsecede? 

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm

Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

If the south won, slavery would have been around til the 1920s 

SJConspirator » 20 Jun 2022, 8:14 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 8:14 pm

If the south won, slavery would have been around til the 1920s

Is this about when modern farm equipment made dealing with slaves no longer practical...?
I imagine many former slaves ended up becoming glad to have a way to live on a productive  plantation  after slavery was ended.

SJConspirator » 20 Jun 2022, 8:14 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 8:14 pm

If the south won, slavery would have been around til the 1920s

Why only until then?

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 8:50 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 8:50 pm

Why only until then?

because it was about that time that mechanized equipment took over all the functions of slaves.  Digging ditches with backhoes, etc.  also, the pressure from allys in WWI would have been mounting heavily.  International pressure to end slavery was a big part of why the civil war happened.  The British government had abolished slavery in 1833, so the US was already 30 years late

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm

Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

A question.

Followed by 3 questions. 


What an asshole.

SJConspirator » 20 Jun 2022, 9:58 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 9:58 pm

because it was about that time that mechanized equipment took over all the functions of slaves.  Digging ditches with backhoes, etc.  also, the pressure from allys in WWI would have been mounting heavily.  International pressure to end slavery was a big part of why the civil war happened.  The British government had abolished slavery in 1833, so the US was already 30 years late

I read something a while back that said black Africans that sold other blacks to the west actually kept more slaves for themselves.

One of the biggest slave owners in America was a black man...he even enslaved his own family.

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm

Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

That's a fun question, I read the book so I know... lol... I can recommend it, that guy is good in alternate history, very believable and fun to read...

 


 

DeezerShoove » 20 Jun 2022, 5:02 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 5:02 pm

If the South had won, what would they have done with the North? Reconstruction?

Unsecede?

A victory for the South would only have resulted in independence for the South. And NO WAY the South would have ended slavery.
No way anyone on either side would even THINK of saying "We're Number One"

SJConspirator » 20 Jun 2022, 9:58 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 9:58 pm

because it was about that time that mechanized equipment took over all the functions of slaves.  Digging ditches with backhoes, etc.  also, the pressure from allys in WWI would have been mounting heavily.  International pressure to end slavery was a big part of why the civil war happened.  The British government had abolished slavery in 1833, so the US was already 30 years late

Mechanization would have resulted in slaves using machines, just like the Nazis had slave labor using machines.
The South would not have had the ability to produce the machines, either.  The Confederate States were a corrupt and backward feudal society poorly ruled by a minority of plantation owners.

Blackvegetable » 21 Jun 2022, 7:17 am » wrote: ↑

21 Jun 2022, 7:17 am

A question.

Followed by 3 questions. 


What an asshole.

what contextual excrement you become performing in socially defined character serving a reality rather than just the average ancestor adapting to space mutually evolving here.

Xavier_Onassis » 21 Jun 2022, 9:40 am » wrote: ↑

21 Jun 2022, 9:40 am

A victory for the South would only have resulted in independence for the South. And NO WAY the South would have ended slavery.
No way anyone on either side would even THINK of saying "We're Number One"

Slavery was on it's way out, war or no. Technology replaced the need for housing, feeding, and managing hundreds of slaves. Simply wasn't practical. A victory for the south would have perhaps led to other western states joining the confederation. Texas, New Mexico, AZ and others may have decided to join them rather than DC. 
 

Vegas » 20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 4:05 pm

Assume the South won; thus, they are their own nation. What would America look like today? Would the South be more powerful than America? Would America struggle to even be a superpower?

first of all...a huge pet peeve of mine:

a nation is a politically active ethnic group. If the confederacy had won the civil war, it would be a country...NOT a nation. THere would be a white, a black, and a red nation within the confederacy. It would be properly labeled a 'white empire'....as in a country composed of multiple nations where one of them rules is an empire (british empire, roman empire, etc).

I also really hate hypotheticals like this because naturally it would have endless influences on the future. Perhaps WW1 would not have happened.

Perhaps a large population of blacks would flee to the north....and northern whites were a lot mroe racist than southern whites...so this would cause some critical political instability.  

SO i have no idea.

I do know the tractor was invented the year that the war was lost...which is a tragic irony...because the tractor makes black people obsolete.

GHETTOBLASTER » 20 Jun 2022, 8:28 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jun 2022, 8:28 pm

Is this about when modern farm equipment made dealing with slaves no longer practical...?
I imagine many former slaves ended up becoming glad to have a way to live on a productive  plantation  after slavery was ended.

actually the tractor was developed in 1865....

lol

Xavier_Onassis » 21 Jun 2022, 9:44 am » wrote: ↑

21 Jun 2022, 9:44 am

Mechanization would have resulted in slaves using machines, just like the Nazis had slave labor using machines.
The South would not have had the ability to produce the machines, either.  The Confederate States were a corrupt and backward feudal society poorly ruled by a minority of plantation owners.

you mean prison labor? nazis had less of that than the modern US.