Liberal Forum

supraTruth » 21 Jun 2022, 7:34 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Jun 2022, 7:34 pm

So, U missed out on your union pensions? 

Well, was only there from mid-2000 to late 2003. Our "pensions" were cashed out and then we were given 3 options. 1. paid retraining at a local community college 2) follow them to Ogden, UT or Henderson, NV. or 3)  leave it all behind. I opted for the first option and that led to the Phd in economics via a circuitous path. 

FOS » 21 Jun 2022, 6:32 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Jun 2022, 6:32 pm

well like what kind of work?

the teamsters are actually doing okay...but truck drivers are becoming far more diverse.

and although the stereotype is that truck drivers are retarded...it does take some sense and discipline to drive a truck in an acceptably safe manner. 

teacher unions are of course very diverse, but are led by leftist ideologues who would literally be opposed to the idea of protecting teachers from being stabbed by feral blacks.

for whatever reason, police unions have had a terrible record of protecting police from racism and rape charges.

you actually can ruin any institution with incompetent or agenda driven leadership.

It was bread manufacturing. I worked there from mid-2000 to late 2003 when it closed and that ended the chapter. the building is still vacant and there is no indication of anything coming that way. 

Cannonpointer » 21 Jun 2022, 8:57 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Jun 2022, 8:57 pm

I have been in management for decades and have successfully thwarted/resisted shop unionization many times. In each case, it would have been a disaster for EVERY stake holder if the workers had voted to unionize. 

And that is what you are refering to. Shop unions. 

TRADE unions are something entirely different. They are guilds, in essence - and they are highly functional, highly reliable, and extremely useful to society - now, more than ever. As the building trades have grown more complex to meet the expanding demands created by better and better technology, highly trained workers - UNION workers, GUILD workers - are more essential than ever. 

Shop unions began life sucking and continue to suck. (I guess they were ARGUABLY "necessary" at some point in our history.) So, when you say "unions," and you do not specify, you make the same mistake as tranny-worshiper @Skans . It's like lumping geishas with crack whores. They have some common elements - but they are not the same thing.

This was the union. The local chapter was based out of Salt Lake City at that time (2000 to 2003). I would say that this is a trade union but i am no expert. 

https://bctgm.org/

OUT_OF_OFFICE » 22 Jun 2022, 2:56 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 2:56 pm

Look at how you celebrate a return to the time when workers were at the complete mercy of their Overlords.
What you are is a TRAITOR to millions of Union Workers who should not have to compete with MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIEN SCABS IN A RACE TO THE BOTTOM
 

OUT_OF_OFFICE » 22 Jun 2022, 3:48 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 3:48 pm

TELL US ABOUT NWO

Look at how you celebrate a return to the time when workers were at the complete mercy of their Overlords.
What you are is a TRAITOR to millions of Union Workers who should not have to compete with MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIEN SCABS IN A RACE TO THE BOTTOM
 

impartialobserver » 22 Jun 2022, 3:00 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 3:00 pm

This was the union. The local chapter was based out of Salt Lake City at that time (2000 to 2003). I would say that this is a trade union but i am no expert. 

https://bctgm.org/

No, that is a house union. But I suspect it hs some trade unions rolled up in it. Like the AFL-CIO, which has member organizations like the iron workers' union, but also has house unions. 

I'm not saying that all shop unions are bad. I'm only saying that I have never seen a good one and I have seen a lot of bad ones. 

Skans » 22 Jun 2022, 1:10 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 1:10 pm

I have no problem at all with companies that choose to use Union labor. So long as it is the Company's choice and not forced upon them by Union organizers.

I remember some years ago a roughneck guy (I'll call him Ralph)  befriended me at the gym.  He just moved down from Road Island.  He was loud, opinionated and had his thick Road Island accent.  The guy couldn't shut up about Union this, Union that - was brainwashed to think everyone loved Unions.  Well, he voiced how he was pissed off because he didn't make what he thought he should be making and had a hard time finding and keeping work.

I finally piped up and told him "You're a Yankee trouble maker".
Ralph asked "What do you mean, Yankee trouble maker?"
I said "You're a trouble maker, the kind of new guy from up North who starts **** at a company because it isn't Unionized."
Ralph just went on and on and on  "Union this" "Union that". 
I said "You just don't get it.  We are an at-will state, most companies don't want **** to do with Unions - you go mouthing off like that and people will find reasons to ****-can you." "No one cares if you can run wire (he was an electrician) better than some untrained idiot"

Well, Ralph didn't stick around long.  He was here all bout about 6 months and then went back to Road Island - pissed off at world because no one loved Unions like he loved Unions.  You remind me of Ralph.

I'm not sure that you and I have the same definition of roughneck. In my idiom, a roughneck is a floor hand on an oil rig - and there are zero roughnecks from Quahog. Anyway, I'd have ****-canned ralph - possibly because his name means vomit and definitely because of his pro-union rabble rousing. Shop unions **** everyone, including the morons who vote them in. 
 
 

Cannonpointer » 22 Jun 2022, 4:20 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 4:20 pm

No, that is a house union. But I suspect it hs some trade unions rolled up in it. Like the AFL-CIO, which has member organizations like the iron workers' union, but also has house unions. 

I'm not saying that all shop unions are bad. I'm only saying that I have never seen a good one and I have seen a lot of bad ones.

This union and the company, interstate brands corporation, negotiated a deal. One of the tradeoffs was that in exchange for relatively high pay, the company could at ANY time change your schedule. For example, lets say that your shift is monday from 12 pm to 830 pm. As long as the bell rang before 830 pm.. they could tell you that your next shift starts at 8:31 pm. Frequently, you would just be about done... 8:25 pm and that bell would ring. You would walk up to the time clock and then you would get the rude awakening that your next 8+ hour would start at 1 am (4.5 hours from now). 

impartialobserver » 22 Jun 2022, 4:26 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 4:26 pm

This union and the company, interstate brands corporation, negotiated a deal. One of the tradeoffs was that in exchange for relatively high pay, the company could at ANY time change your schedule. For example, lets say that your shift is monday from 12 pm to 830 pm. As long as the bell rang before 830 pm.. they could tell you that your next shift starts at 8:31 pm. Frequently, you would just be about done... 8:25 pm and that bell would ring. You would walk up to the time clock and then you would get the rude awakening that your next 8+ hour would start at 1 am (4.5 hours from now).

Lol. The company worked a **** you into its grudging acceptance of the union!      
 

Cannonpointer » 22 Jun 2022, 4:27 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 4:27 pm

Lol. The company worked a **** you into its grudging acceptance of the union!    

That may be so. I was in my early 20's and was just happy to have a job that helped me pay child support and still make an ok living. Those were some long days/nights. And if there were any production mishaps.. you stayed until you were back on schedule. 

Cannonpointer » 22 Jun 2022, 4:20 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 4:20 pm

No, that is a house union. But I suspect it hs some trade unions rolled up in it. Like the AFL-CIO, which has member organizations like the iron workers' union, but also has house unions. 

I'm not saying that all shop unions are bad. I'm only saying that I have never seen a good one and I have seen a lot of bad ones.

I was curious about this union..so I looked into any major grievances they have.
Well one grievance was that the workers at Hershey want to take a share of the record profits. There was no mention whether or not they would take a pay cut during hard times, though.
Then there was this...."One woman named Janice Taylor told the labor media outlet More Perfect Union that she was required to work for 72 days consecutively. She said, “I was exhausted both physically and mentally.” Taylor and others also detailed how Hershey has created a two-tier system at the factory where newer workers are paid less and have significantly fewer benefits."
Imagine that..a system where the workers who have less experience get paid less...what is this world coming to..?
Her state law should be pretty straight forward about the issue of working 72 days in a row...I wonder if she bothered to look at that..?
 
 

GHETTOBLASTER » 22 Jun 2022, 4:38 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 4:38 pm

I was curious about this union..so I looked into any major grievances they have.
Well one grievance was that the workers at Hershey want to take a share of the record profits. There was no mention whether or not they would take a pay cut during hard times, though.
Then there was this...."One woman named Janice Taylor told the labor media outlet More Perfect Union that she was required to work for 72 days consecutively. She said, “I was exhausted both physically and mentally.” Taylor and others also detailed how Hershey has created a two-tier system at the factory where newer workers are paid less and have significantly fewer benefits."
Imagine that..a system where the workers who have less experience get paid less...what is this world coming to..?
Her state law should be pretty straight forward about the issue of working 72 days in a row...I wonder if she bothered to look at that..?

What she is referring to is actually a filthy practice of desperate, dying rust belt unions. They negotiate to allow the company to bring in temps - you know, for the Christmas season (or high summer, or whatever sesonal rush that industry has). And everyone knows that it's a fig leaf - that the contract allows temps to be a permanent fixture. The way the game is played, temp agencies send ready labor out each morning - year ****' 'round. The temps are youngsters - 90 day wonders. If the company keeps them 91 days, they're in the union and on steady. Otherwise, their employment is with the temp agency - NOT with the company. 

These temps shift companies every 90 days, always hoping and believing, with the innocence of youth, that their hard work and great attitude will pay off in stedy work at union wage. The union members keep their high pay on the backs of the temps. They COULD have agreed to slow their raise schedule, have a few less perks, what have you. Or they COULD have stood strong and demanded their pay grade for everyone, with graduations from a training wage. But they did neither. They sold someone ELSE'S job - and then came out of their ball washers about solidarity and brotherhood. Real scum.

House unions - got no good thing to say about them, other than they tend to keep wages up in the short run. Long run? They shutter businesses. And they veritably WALLOW in hypocrisy.

impartialobserver » 22 Jun 2022, 4:30 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 4:30 pm

That may be so. I was in my early 20's and was just happy to have a job that helped me pay child support and still make an ok living. Those were some long days/nights. And if there were any production mishaps.. you stayed until you were back on schedule.

In my youth, I worked the oil patch. You worked hurt, you worked sore, you worked tired, you worked hard as a mother ****. I once did a double tour - that's 24 hours straight, - tripping pipe the entire time. We were using hydrochloric in the drilling fluid and the mud-catcher was worn to nothing, so a fine mist of HCL permeated the air, got on my pants and on the lip of my boot, and wore aginst my skin so that I had a couple of third degree acid burns the size of silver dollars by the end of my second tour. 

I ain't bragging or complaining - well, okay. maybe bragging a little. But if I could go back and whisper in that 21 year old's ear, I'd probably tell him to wise the **** up. Probably - lol. Probably not - lol!

Thing is, I was raised on oil field stories. I just didnt have "fold" in my vocbulary. Men work hurt - that was my understanding and my social contract. At the time, it always confused me that women would get mad when you came back from a hitch injured, and they found out you had worked hurt. I felt they should respect that. Instead, they got all pissy about it. I just chalked it up to women not having any sense. Now I understand that they were the ones with sense.   

Okay, writing all of that out, I came to grips with the fact that I am proud of the young man that I used to be - proud of his grit, - and I would **** do it again.   
 
 

Cannonpointer » 22 Jun 2022, 5:38 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 5:38 pm

In my youth, I worked the oil patch. You worked hurt, you worked sore, you worked tired, you worked hard as a mother ****. I once did a double tour - that's 24 hours straight, - tripping pipe the entire time. We were using hydrochloric in the drilling fluid and the mud-catcher was worn to nothing, so a fine mist of HCL permeated the air, got on my pants and on the lip of my boot, and wore aginst my skin so that I had a couple of third degree acid burns the size of silver dollars by the end of my second tour. 

I ain't bragging or complaining - well, okay. maybe bragging a little. But if I could go back and whisper in that 21 year old's ear, I'd probably tell him to wise the **** up. Probably - lol. Probably not - lol!

Thing is, I was raised on oil field stories. I just didnt have "fold" in my vocbulary. Men work hurt - that was my understanding and my social contract. At the time, it always confused me that women would get mad when you cme back from a hitch injured, and they found out you had worked hurt. I felt they should respect that. Instead, they got all pissy about it. I just chalked it up to women not having any sense. Now I understand that they were the ones with sense.   

Okay, writing all of that out, I came to grips with the fact that I am proud of the young man that I used to be - proud of his grit, - and I would **** do it again. 

My time in the bread factory was not as extreme as you lay out. I never missed a day either. Tore a muscle in my upper back (Trapezius) right off the spine and kept working. There was a lot of lifting involved in this job. Hundreds of 50 lb bags. Never went to a doctor, never filed a workmen's comp claim, nothing. Well that boneheaded decision has haunted me ever since. I would do that job again if given the chance to go back. It gave me perspective into the labor world that restaurants, janitorial, and call centers would not have. 

Cannonpointer » 22 Jun 2022, 4:25 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jun 2022, 4:25 pm

I'm not sure that you and I have the same definition of roughneck. In my idiom, a roughneck is a floor hand on an oil rig - and there are zero roughnecks from Quahog. Anyway, I'd have ****-canned ralph - possibly because his name means vomit and definitely because of his pro-union rabble rousing. Shop unions **** everyone, including the morons who vote them in.

LOL - Roughneck probably isn't the correct word.  But, it's what we called guys like that - factory workers from up north who were loud, know-it-alls and cussed a lot.  I don't know what y'all call them.  Probably, "Dad".  

Well, you and I could be talking two different things.