Liberal Forum

Vegas » 26 Jun 2022, 12:53 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2022, 12:53 pm

Plato  . . . 

Too complicate for me.

I'll leave it to  @omh  to make all that even less understandable.

He's the best when it comes to here and now from cradle to grave **** .

Jinn Martini » 27 Jun 2022, 6:03 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 6:03 am

Too complicate for me.

I'll leave it to omh  to make all that even less understandable.

He's the best when it comes to here and now from cradle to grave **** .

Boy that sounds exactly like a Hillary Clinton quote during the 2016 campaign trail speech, Or was it when she was First Lady, or was it running for the Senate of New York.

Vegas » 26 Jun 2022, 12:53 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2022, 12:53 pm

In conclusion: Two questions: 

1. What if we are AI bots for a species that we are unaware of?
2. would AI bots be unaware of us?

Prediction
1. Veghead will say "you are a **** moron."

I will attempt to answer these questions by making a couple of assumptions:

First Assumption
What we call "God" could be such a species you describe.  If we take the existence of God as true, then God told us he gave mankind "free will".  We are pretty much left to our own actions and deeds which seemingly have no unified or unitary purpose.  So, even if we are machines created by the All Might, or even another race of non-humans, then we do not meet the definition of a AI Bots. There is no seeming intention to make us perform or do things for the betterment of another species.

Second Assumption
Leaving the "God" question out of it.  Let's try to go down the rabbit hole that another species created us. I would refute such a premise by pointing out a few things:

• There is no evidence of any near-by non-human race or civilization which could travel to Earth without huge expenditures of time and energy.  Our species is uniquely tailored to every aspect of Earth, down to the cellular and even elemental level, and we are not likely to have evolved or have been created on some other planet.
• Even assuming that some species did create us, we seem to have "free will" and are not performing any type of robotic functions to benefit any other race. So, to what end are we AI Bots performing functions for another species?  There is no evidence of this at all.
• Who created our creators?  At some point, there would have to be a species that was not created by any other species (taking God out of the equation for a moment).  So, in examining this we must conclude that our creators evolved naturally (again, taking the Divine out of the discussion), but we did not.  This is a paradox, as there are no signs that we were created by another species, and any other creator-species (or their creators, on and on) at some point would have had to spring forth and develop on its own.  So, if this can happen to others, why could it not have happened to Humans?

Therefore, based on logic because 1) there is no evidence that Humans were created as Bots to perform some useful function for another species; 2) We appear to have free will to chart our own destinies within the confines of our own existence; and 3) at some point the creators could not have been created by others, I surmise that we were not created bots by and for an alien species.
 
 

omh » 27 Jun 2022, 5:30 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 5:30 am

Hills don't have eyes, life times have eyes and the hills are just the ground they inhabit space on. Instincts are combined at conception, intellect is learned after birth, intelligence is understanding what separates being one of a kind where those sharing one mentality refuse to accept how, why, each which, what, where, when, who they are here now since conceived to dead ratio of total sum half life replacements 100% never duplicated prior or after conceived.

Thermodynamics is evolving here now as eternally separated in current ever changing total sum forward. Minds that cannot explain eternity won't accept being eternally separated as displaced.

It is the will of the people denying now is eternity that corrupts this species inside out each generation.

That was a movie reference, brain child.

Go play house. That's gotta be a scary **** mess for you.

Deezer Shoove » 27 Jun 2022, 7:41 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 7:41 am

That was a movie reference, brain child.

Go play house. That's gotta be a scary **** mess for you.

I knew that. Everything you defend reality with came from arts and entertainment working spiritual fantasies to science fiction to social fruition acted out historically each generation added upto current events.

6 degrees of intellectual diversion from self evident genetic results, two polar axiom training brains to believe and maintaining illusions of anything else is possible cradle to grave each generation forward is academia and arts perpendicular to manifesting leaderships and fellowships is left and right wings to keep everyone focusing on relative time rather than actual time individually evolving here, politics and religion.

third perpendicular axiom from the two perpendicular horizontal axises is economics and social rank controlling behavior philosophically, psychologically, physically punishing anyone not compromising away their biological time to serve time saving humanities.

need a couple of 4 dimensional graph of what that looks like?https://i.postimg.cc/FRHMp2RC/Picture-173.jpg

left is thinking outside a box, the right is navigating space as one of a kind, 7th degree of separation is center mass conceived to decomposed. the 6 points outside are vertically 2 parents, horizontally is 4 grandparents.

Next is another graph adding 2 more prior generations 8 corners of great grandparent generation supported by 16 great great grandparent generation sustaining 4 parallel times to that of mom and dad delivering next generation great great grandchild that is born with the opportunity to become 1 of 16 great great grandparents should the species last another 4 generations after their birth as last generation of great great grandchildren so far with more born all the time, here in this atmosphere.

Again, kinetic universal constant that is within thermodynamic principles to energy streaming of ancestors occupying space total sum in the moment here.

My instincts put into intellectual means to misdirect everyone alive, is exposed like never done before in history. By one male. Guess whom foretold that event arriving early in the 17th century?

omh » 27 Jun 2022, 8:00 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 8:00 am

need a couple of 4 dimensional graph of what that looks like?https://i.postimg.cc/FRHMp2RC/Picture-173.jpg

 

What are the 4 dimensions?  3 spatial dimensions and one color-based dimension?

Vegas » 26 Jun 2022, 9:46 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2022, 9:46 pm

The idea that it can think. It gives a new meaning to what 'thinking' means relating to humans. Computers can compute, but they don't think in the same manner that we do. However, AI is designed to think like us, but better.

this all comes down to computer programming.

I have coded simple apps in Java and Python, both of which are top languages for AI creation

https://www.moveoapps.com/blog/best-pro ... velopment/

the theory that AI could become self aware is based on the notion that they (robots) could become so advanced they begin coding themselves.  If that ever happened, the functions they would program into new robots would be extensions of the programming they already have, I.e. an unmanned aerial drone programmed to kill specific targets could become a seek and destroy killer of of any and all humans.

the most complicating factor is the internet.  If self aware AI were plugged in, it could pick up all sorts of coding lines from the internet, including bugs and viruses.  This is what makes AI utterly unpredictable if it ever became self aware.

Skans » 27 Jun 2022, 8:11 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 8:11 am

What are the 4 dimensions?  3 spatial dimensions and one color-based dimension?

space time continuum.

evolving is inclusive to each separate form occupying space currently being the time they all exist in series parallel displacement universal scale to each detail in this atmosphere.

That comes from the basic "The whole is equal to total sum of all its parts.". Life in this atmosphere as a whole is everything individually occupying space geographically here living now.

no exemptions or exclusions debating what else is possible throughout history into current events.

two dimension blueprint https://i.postimg.cc/X75TqHby/Picture-149.jpg for this https://i.postimg.cc/9XK6W3vh/Picture-151.jpg

2 dimensional blueprint https://i.postimg.cc/x1RpNBFq/Picture-154.jpg for this https://i.postimg.cc/3wtqVzgz/Picture-152.jpg.

first one is me mocking philosophy of think outside a box. because nobody can know what is in it until opened. there are 8 sides to that box. it's My Pandora's Box.

second one is me mocking clock and calendar relative time as there are 24 spaces on 6 sides 8 interior corners with 8 open ended speculation to travel away from the 7th degree of ancestral separation of each individual lifetime since conceived after inception of their DNA code streaming the population occupying space here.

You still demand playing literal, figurative, relative, social truths are separate as church and state of minds to heart, mind, body, soul of each contextual social identity alive with life being larger than mutually evolving here now saving ideologies cradle to grave before completely understanding the gravity of limited to mutually evolving now?

How many generations existed since dawn of civilization in this atmosphere? History is only about 6,000 years old. I use 20 year cycle for simplicity making the guess 300.

been 101 since New Testament Claiming Jesus was son of God and that was composed 300 years after he died when Rome converted from Paganism to Christianity.

omh » 27 Jun 2022, 8:54 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 8:54 am

space time continuum.

evolving is inclusive to each separate form occupying space currently being the time they all exist in series parallel displacement universal scale to each detail in this atmosphere.

That comes from the basic "The whole is equal to total sum of all its parts.". Life in this atmosphere as a whole is everything individually occupying space geographically here living now.

no exemptions or exclusions debating what else is possible throughout history into current events.

two dimension blueprint https://i.postimg.cc/X75TqHby/Picture-149.jpg for this https://i.postimg.cc/9XK6W3vh/Picture-151.jpg

2 dimensional blueprint https://i.postimg.cc/x1RpNBFq/Picture-154.jpg for this https://i.postimg.cc/3wtqVzgz/Picture-152.jpg.

first one is me mocking philosophy of think outside a box. because nobody can know what is in it until opened. there are 8 sides to that box. it's My Pandora's Box.

second one is me mocking clock and calendar relative time as there are 24 spaces on 6 sides 8 interior corners with 8 open ended speculation to travel away from the 7th degree of ancestral separation of each individual lifetime since conceived after inception of their DNA code streaming the population occupying space here.

You still demand playing literal, figurative, relative, social truths are separate as church and state of minds to heart, mind, body, soul of each contextual social identity alive with life being larger than mutually evolving here now saving ideologies cradle to grave before completely understanding the gravity of limited to mutually evolving now?

How many generations existed since dawn of civilization in this atmosphere? History is only about 6,000 years old. I use 20 year cycle for simplicity making the guess 300.

been 101 since New Testament Claiming Jesus was son of God and that was composed 300 years after he died when Rome converted from Paganism to Christianity.

Vegas, are you keeping this guys posts in here cuz they are so interesting to read?

omh » 27 Jun 2022, 8:54 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 8:54 am

space time continuum.

evolving is inclusive to each separate form occupying space currently being the time they all exist in series parallel displacement universal scale to each detail in this atmosphere.

That comes from the basic "The whole is equal to total sum of all its parts.". Life in this atmosphere as a whole is everything individually occupying space geographically here living now.

no exemptions or exclusions debating what else is possible throughout history into current events.

two dimension blueprint https://i.postimg.cc/X75TqHby/Picture-149.jpg for this https://i.postimg.cc/9XK6W3vh/Picture-151.jpg

2 dimensional blueprint https://i.postimg.cc/x1RpNBFq/Picture-154.jpg for this https://i.postimg.cc/3wtqVzgz/Picture-152.jpg.

first one is me mocking philosophy of think outside a box. because nobody can know what is in it until opened. there are 8 sides to that box. it's My Pandora's Box.

second one is me mocking clock and calendar relative time as there are 24 spaces on 6 sides 8 interior corners with 8 open ended speculation to travel away from the 7th degree of ancestral separation of each individual lifetime since conceived after inception of their DNA code streaming the population occupying space here.

You still demand playing literal, figurative, relative, social truths are separate as church and state of minds to heart, mind, body, soul of each contextual social identity alive with life being larger than mutually evolving here now saving ideologies cradle to grave before completely understanding the gravity of limited to mutually evolving now?

How many generations existed since dawn of civilization in this atmosphere? History is only about 6,000 years old. I use 20 year cycle for simplicity making the guess 300.

been 101 since New Testament Claiming Jesus was son of God and that was composed 300 years after he died when Rome converted from Paganism to Christianity.

Here's the real deal - a three dimensional paper cube, in and of itself, can only be 3 dimensions.  Now, I noticed that you added color to the cube, and color can be used to simulate another dimension, making it a 4 dimensional cube.  When you unfold the cube, it's no longer a cube, so I don't need to address anything beyond that, since in your original photo, it was a cube and not an unfolded piece of paper. 

So, I'll ask again, did you intend on the color on that cube representing a separate dimension?
 

SJConspirator » 27 Jun 2022, 9:00 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:00 am

Vegas, are you keeping this guys posts in here cuz they are so interesting to read?

because I am in topic of artificial intelligence created by working theories and practiced theologies always suggesting there is no such thing as a physical point of eternity. and this moment is actually it.

the space between inorganic erosion and organic decomposition as self evidently here. I show time is stationary by event horizons between each cycle of ancestral progression occupying space here.

simple compounding within energy cannot be created or destroyed when changing shape formed at conception. thermodynamic rule. Molecular content capable of transferring between eroded inorganic to combine into organic forms mapped by DNAroot knowledge of passed generations added into current arrivals.

How you don't want everyone equally aware of how intellect corrupted natural displacements for so many generations. means, motives, methods, opportunities, mayhem, madness, misery each generation practicing hope, faith, charity, opportunity, gaining intellectual power, wealth, fame dividing ancestries into typecast people cradle to grave.

All accomplished by power of suggesting real isn't actually all there is to know about here now.

Skans » 27 Jun 2022, 9:08 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:08 am

Here's the real deal - a three dimensional paper cube, in and of itself, can only be 3 dimensions.  Now, I noticed that you added color to the cube, and color can be used to simulate another dimension, making it a 4 dimensional cube.  When you unfold the cube, it's no longer a cube, so I don't need to address anything beyond that, since in your original photo, it was a cube and not an unfolded piece of paper. 

So, I'll ask again, did you intend on the color on that cube representing a separate dimension?
 

inaccurate, that piece of paper is 4 dimensional. it is inorganic from organic wood murdered to create paper to place vocabulary on to govern each generation as generations prior. Rule of law and ordering ancestries to sacrifice their biological time to serve ideological timing of making believe evolving exceeds being alive now.

guess what is needed to sustain that system of reasonable doubt? Chain of commands from households to global economics to keep everyone willing to avoid using their instinctive awareness to navigate time occupying space now proportionately alive.

"A mind is a terrible thing to waste.". But an ancestor using their own brain won't be tolerated in any reality.

omh » 27 Jun 2022, 9:18 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:18 am

inaccurate, that piece of paper is 4 dimensional. it is inorganic from organic wood murdered
 

Not dimensions - therefore, disregarded.  You failed to answer the question I posed to you.  You will receive no further questions from me. 

 

Skans » 27 Jun 2022, 9:45 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:45 am

Not dimensions - therefore, disregarded.  You failed to answer the question I posed to you.  You will receive no further questions from me. 

 

ha ha ha ha I didn't give you the answer you desired. I went beyond what you speculate life should be all the way to how it actually evolves in plain sight currently changing total sum details forward here.

Skans » 27 Jun 2022, 7:35 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 7:35 am

I will attempt to answer these questions by making a couple of assumptions:

First Assumption
What we call "God" could be such a species you describe.  If we take the existence of God as true, then God told us he gave mankind "free will".  We are pretty much left to our own actions and deeds which seemingly have no unified or unitary purpose.  So, even if we are machines created by the All Might, or even another race of non-humans, then we do not meet the definition of a AI Bots. There is no seeming intention to make us perform or do things for the betterment of another species.

Second Assumption
Leaving the "God" question out of it.  Let's try to go down the rabbit hole that another species created us. I would refute such a premise by pointing out a few things:

• There is no evidence of any near-by non-human race or civilization which could travel to Earth without huge expenditures of time and energy.  Our species is uniquely tailored to every aspect of Earth, down to the cellular and even elemental level, and we are not likely to have evolved or have been created on some other planet.
• Even assuming that some species did create us, we seem to have "free will" and are not performing any type of robotic functions to benefit any other race. So, to what end are we AI Bots performing functions for another species?  There is no evidence of this at all.
• Who created our creators?  At some point, there would have to be a species that was not created by any other species (taking God out of the equation for a moment).  So, in examining this we must conclude that our creators evolved naturally (again, taking the Divine out of the discussion), but we did not.  This is a paradox, as there are no signs that we were created by another species, and any other creator-species (or their creators, on and on) at some point would have had to spring forth and develop on its own.  So, if this can happen to others, why could it not have happened to Humans?

Therefore, based on logic because 1) there is no evidence that Humans were created as Bots to perform some useful function for another species; 2) We appear to have free will to chart our own destinies within the confines of our own existence; and 3) at some point the creators could not have been created by others, I surmise that we were not created bots by and for an alien species.

As usual, your post are well thought out. Very nice. 

1) But evidence is in the perspective of our lens. Are ants (or any insects) aware that there is more land than the one they occupy? Are they aware of different species in China? They are only aware of the evidence from the lens of being an ant. Likewise, we are only aware of any species from the human lens. Can we prove that we are all not in some larger container possessed by a higher species? Ants think the world is contained in what is around them. 

2) This is what leads to my thought experiment. Our DNA programs each of us. It dictates our behavior and thoughts. We don't dictate our DNA, it was programmed in us. Therefore, how much free will do we really have if we were born with a priori programmed system?

3) I see no reason why a creator could not be created by others. We are creating AI bots, that in of itself proves, it to be possible.
 

Vegas » 27 Jun 2022, 9:50 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:50 am

As usual, your post are well thought out. Very nice. 

1) But evidence is in the perspective of our lens. Are ants (or any insects) aware that there is more land than the one they occupy? Are they aware of different species in China? They are only aware of the evidence from the lens of being an ant. Likewise, we are only aware of any species from the human lens. Can we prove that we are all not in some larger container possessed by a higher species? Ants think the world is contained in what is around them. 

2) This is what leads to my thought experiment. Our DNA programs each of us. It dictates our behavior and thoughts. We don't dictate our DNA, it was programmed in us. Therefore, how much free will do we really have if we were born with a priori programmed system?

3) I see no reason why a creator could not be created by others. We are creating AI bots, that in of itself proves, it to be possible.
 

4. what is the natural limit to possibilities life is more than the time reproductions have now? Build a machine that can replicate another machine, but it won't have the sense of proportion instincts have in a brain that experience evolving from a fertilized cell being the brain in a body never same form shaped when entering space time continuum with limited to being one of a kind.

Vegas » 27 Jun 2022, 9:50 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:50 am

As usual, your post are well thought out. Very nice. 

1) But evidence is in the perspective of our lens. Are ants (or any insects) aware that there is more land than the one they occupy? Are they aware of different species in China? They are only aware of the evidence from the lens of being an ant. Likewise, we are only aware of any species from the human lens. Can we prove that we are all not in some larger container possessed by a higher species? Ants think the world is contained in what is around them. 
 

I like your Ant analysis.  In fact, I have often wondered (and sometimes argued) whether any ant has ever look up at the night sky and seen stars, not necessarily in the same way that Humans do. I am aware of the very limited ability of Humans to even perceive of the world and universe around us. We can only sense a tiny fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum; most of it goes completely unnoticed by us.  We cannot even see most gasses, or 99.999% of what is beneath the surface of our planet.  In a sense we live in one-dimensional space on top of a sphere, not much different than the ant. 

However, we have aptly developed instruments which greatly expand our perception and understanding of that which we cannot naturally observe. That is a rather noteworthy accomplishment of humankind.  We not only have the natural curiosity to seek out evidence concerning our nature and the nature of the universe, we seem to be on a mission to obtain such information with our enhanced and expanded capabilities.  Yet, even with our enhanced capabilities, we have not yet found any evidence of life beyond our planet, not to mention highly intelligent life, moreover the kind of intelligent life capable of "making us".

2) This is what leads to my thought experiment. Our DNA programs each of us. It dictates our behavior and thoughts.

You are overstating this.  DNA does not dictate behavior or thought.  DNA does only two things - replicate and make proteins.  Really, that is all DNA does. Further, protein synthesis only tangentially affects thought.

We don't dictate our DNA, it was programmed in us.

I would have to agree on this.

Therefore, how much free will do we really have

A lot, actually, Like I said, DNA can only do two things - manufacture proteins and replicate. That is a far cry from "programing" as we know it. I challenge you to link up DNA's synthesis of proteins with logical thought and reasoning.

3) I see no reason why a creator could not be created by others.

I'm not saying it can't.  But, at some iteration, there must be a species that was not created by another species (taking God out of the equation).  So, before I buy into any thought experiment that presupposes we were created by another intelligent species, you would have to first explain to me how the original creators were created. Otherwise, you're just logically kicking the can down the road.

We are creating AI bots, that in of itself proves, it to be possible.

Well, it proves something is possible.  It does not prove that we are capable of making a machine that thinks the same way humans do.


 

Vegas » 27 Jun 2022, 9:50 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:50 am

As usual, your post are well thought out. Very nice. 

1) But evidence is in the perspective of our lens. Are ants (or any insects) aware that there is more land than the one they occupy? Are they aware of different species in China? They are only aware of the evidence from the lens of being an ant. Likewise, we are only aware of any species from the human lens. Can we prove that we are all not in some larger container possessed by a higher species? Ants think the world is contained in what is around them. 

2) This is what leads to my thought experiment. Our DNA programs each of us. It dictates our behavior and thoughts. We don't dictate our DNA, it was programmed in us. Therefore, how much free will do we really have if we were born with a priori programmed system?

3) I see no reason why a creator could not be created by others. We are creating AI bots, that in of itself proves, it to be possible.

DNA does not “program “ us.  DNA is simply genetic markers that determine physical traits.  DNA does influence behavior, as does environment so I agree with your point about free will, it’s an illusion
 

SJConspirator » 27 Jun 2022, 11:07 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 11:07 am

DNA does not “program “ us.  DNA is simply genetic markers that determine physical traits.  DNA does influence behavior, as does environment so I agree with your point about free will, it’s an illusion

Our genes do, but our genes are encoded from our DNA, so our DNA effects our gene make up, which in turn effects our behavior/thoughts. 

Epigenetics involves looking at the “epigenome,” which scientists describe as a layer of “chemical tags” wrapped around our protein-covered DNA. The epigenome “marks” can influence the physical structure of the genome, which in turn can dictate which genes are active or inactive. While our DNA code doesn’t change, the epigenome can. Specific “tags” can react to outside influences, which can adjust how the body reads that gene.

Vegas » 26 Jun 2022, 11:02 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2022, 11:02 pm

Same question can be asked of us. Why should we think of anything? Mostly, because we can.

I disagree. We thi k of things because we are a product of evolution. Our thinking is supposed to increase our reproductive fitness...which ultimately is the point of everything we do