Liberal Forum

roadkill » 27 Jun 2022, 8:32 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 8:32 am

When I was a kid you could get a hunting license at 12 y/o IF you take the hunter's safety course.

Two key things about guns:

#1   Treat every gun as if it is loaded, even if it's not loaded.  It's a good habit to get into.

#2   Always point a gun down and away from people or animals when not using it.

Also, don't put your finger in the hole until you're ready to make a hole.

Squatchman » 27 Jun 2022, 9:58 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 9:58 am

   The AR 15 of course.
 More power.
 More shots.
 More accurate.
 Just as short as a handgun when a handgun is held at arms length.
Great for in a building or outdoors.

So Its fair to say that the AR-15 is popular with mass shooters because it's "cool" and not because its easier to kill a lot of people in a crowd? 
 

ScottMon » 27 Jun 2022, 2:53 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 2:53 pm

So Its fair to say that the AR-15 is popular with mass shooters because it's "cool" and not because its easier to kill a lot of people in a crowd?

It is no more easier to kill people in a crowd than any other firearm.  I would venture to say the allure of the AR 15 is due more to the demonization and false talking points about the weapon than anything else.  Detractors who don’t know about weapons have marketed their concerns by claiming it is the ultimate killing machine.  It is not.  It is no different in function than any other semi automatic weapon.

Huey » 27 Jun 2022, 3:02 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 3:02 pm

It is no more easier to kill people in a crowd than any other firearm.  I would venture to say the allure of the AR 15 is due more to the demonization and false talking points about the weapon than anything else.  Detractors who don’t know about weapons have marketed their concerns by claiming it is the ultimate killing machine.  It is not.  It is no different in function than any other semi automatic weapon.

I appreciate the civil discussion here.  Thank you for that.  But this leads me to another question.  If you were to deter several targets that were various distances from you and potentially seeking coverage from you, Would you be better off with a hand gun or some other type of gun?
 

It all depends on distance from threat. Longer distance = rifle. Short distance = pistol. Older semi auto 9mm pistols had 14 shots. You can shoot many people with a 9mm. In a longer distance situation you need accuracy. Rifles are better because of longer barrels. AR-15 is popular because there are so many clones, parts, weight, size and availability of add-ons. Good luck.

ScottMon » 27 Jun 2022, 3:08 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 3:08 pm

I appreciate the civil discussion here.  Thank you for that.  But this leads me to another question.  If you were to deter several targets that were various distances from you and potentially seeking coverage from you, Would you be better off with a hand gun or some other type of gun?

Legally I would prefer a pistol in a civilian environment. Or my Judge.  If someone is more than 25 feet from you (and that is a stretch) you may have a difficult time convincing the judge and jury you were imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death.  

Huey » 27 Jun 2022, 3:37 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 3:37 pm

Legally I would prefer a pistol in a civilian environment. Or my Judge.  If someone is more than 25 feet from you (and that is a stretch) you may have a difficult time convincing the judge and jury you were imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death.

Ok, that makes sense.  I think I've had my questions answered.  Thank you for this. 
 

Huey » 27 Jun 2022, 3:37 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 3:37 pm

Legally I would prefer a pistol in a civilian environment. Or my Judge.  If someone is more than 25 feet from you (and that is a stretch) you may have a difficult time convincing the judge and jury you were imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death.

I was just going to say something similar, you just said it better.  You better not be shooting at people more than 25 feet away from you for a lot of reasons in most urban and suburban environments.  If I spot someone running quickly toward me in a sketchy situation, I might deploy my firearm before they get within 25 feet of me, but not shoot.   First, hitting a moving target under pressure at 25' is difficult.  Very easy to miss, and if you miss, where is that bullet going to land?  Second, ask yourself if a Jury will find that someone 50 feet away from you (who is not shooting at you) caused you to believe you were in imminent danger.  If I were on that jury, might have a hard time convincing me.

Most gun folks realize that killing another person is a BAD thing.  Something none of us ever wants to have to do. In questionable circumstances, it would way heavily on your soul as well as cost you butt-loads of money in defense costs....and that's if the shooting is determined to be justified.
 

Skans » 27 Jun 2022, 3:52 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 3:52 pm

I was just going to say something similar, you just said it better.  You better not be shooting at people more than 25 feet away from you for a lot of reasons in most urban and suburban environments.  If I spot someone running quickly toward me in a sketchy situation, I might deploy my firearm before they get within 25 feet of me, but not shoot.   First, hitting a moving target under pressure at 25' is difficult.  Very easy to miss, and if you miss, where is that bullet going to land?  Second, ask yourself if a Jury will find that someone 50 feet away from you (who is not shooting at you) caused you to believe you were in imminent danger.  If I were on that jury, might have a hard time convincing me.

Most gun folks realize that killing another person is a BAD thing.  Something none of us ever wants to have to do. In questionable circumstances, it would way heavily on your soul as well as cost you butt-loads of money in defense costs....and that's if the shooting is determined to be justified.

The other thing people need to realize is that every state has different versions of the law.  I carry in various states on the east coast and before I do I brush up on state castle/stand your ground laws as well as carry laws.
 

ScottMon » 27 Jun 2022, 2:53 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 2:53 pm

So Its fair to say that the AR-15 is popular with mass shooters because it's "cool" and not because its easier to kill a lot of people in a crowd?

An AR-15 is a bit easier to use especially at longer distances.  Let's not forget that an average classroom could be at least 50 feet long.  The shooter is probably standing in a corner somewhere so he can see the entire room.  So, he'll choose it because of the "cool" factor (I don't know how shooting kids even in even an idiot's mind is cool, but I know what you mean), but also because of the possible distances involved and his lack of skills/training with a handgun.

Now, think about an active shooter inside of a crowded 20 x 20 room.  A rifle is going to limit the shooter's range, and he could easily be attacked from the side or from behind.  If he is good with a pistol, he should be able to dispatch any threats coming at him faster.
 
 

Huey » 27 Jun 2022, 3:57 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 3:57 pm

The other thing people need to realize is that every state has different versions of the law.  I carry in various states on the east coast and before I do I brush up on state castle/stand your ground laws as well as carry laws.

Yes, I am quite aware, and you have to do this. I generally carry in 3 different states.  Admittedly, I need to catch up on the laws of a couple of them.
 

ScottMon » 27 Jun 2022, 8:02 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2022, 8:02 am

If you had to face 2 or more bad guys, Would you prefer to have a hand gun or an AR-15?

I've heard the argument that both guns are equally lethal but I'm skeptical.

A handgun cause I've never even shot an AR 15