Liberal Forum

I was reminded recently of a point that Adolf hitler made in mein kampf: namely he priced the catholic church for having a law of celibacy...which meant that dynasties could not form within the catholic power structure and their ruling class was always originating from the lower class. 

Believe it or not...Hitler was very democratic in his political sensibilities. No, he did not trust that the masses could responsibly elect their leaders...but he did have populist priorities and he believed the best leaders tend to come from humble beginnings (like hinself). 

The church historically was a major check against the excesses of nobility in the middle ages...and their attitudes towards reproduction were basically opposite (a female royal was basically little more more a birthing machine on average). Church driven policies tended to benefit the quality of life for the masses while policies from the king focused on increasing the power and wealth of the kingdom. And 5hat distinction could arguably be explained by the dichotomy in reproductive policy in those two institutions. (Else popes and bishops might become little more than competitors to kings)

I believe that the loss of the political relevance of the church (and allowing priests to marry)...has been a major cause of our increasingly unequal society and the decline in the quality of life for the regular people. 

But I am also somewhat on the fence about this...because I do not love the rabble as much as Hitler does and I believe there is a large heritable component to good rulers....and under wise rule a rising tide somewhat lifts all ships.

Perhaps ideally there should be 2 competing groups of elites. One that follows a reproductive and narcissistic strategy and the other celibate and populist. That model might be the best for preserving liberty. But considering the extreme lack in our society of people who seriously believe God (I think most Christians only pretend to be Christian for cynical reasons)...it is hard to imagine what could motivate the celibate ruling class to emerge.. 
 

interesting.....nice read

this is interesting too
Forced Celibacy Leads to Catholic Sex Abuse - Atheist Republic
https://www.atheistrepublic.com/news/

forced-celibacy-leads-catholic-sex-abuseForced Celibacy Leads to Catholic Sex Abuse. A new five-year research study has analyzed the systemic reasons why the abuse of children has plagued the Catholic Church worldwide. The report

but, i venture to say...if true...then all leaders are susceptible
 
 

TB7 » 25 Jul 2022, 6:06 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 6:06 pm

interesting.....nice read

this is interesting too
Forced Celibacy Leads to Catholic Sex Abuse - Atheist Republic
https://www.atheistrepublic.com/news/

forced-celibacy-leads-catholic-sex-abuseForced Celibacy Leads to Catholic Sex Abuse. A new five-year research study has analyzed the systemic reasons why the abuse of children has plagued the Catholic Church worldwide. The report

but, i venture to say...if true...then all leaders are susceptible

I would say that even if this is true...the primary cause is probably that the priests have very weak faith. 

Obviously if they really believed they would go to hell for it...they would be unlikely to do it. Right?
 

FOS » 25 Jul 2022, 5:41 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 5:41 pm

I was reminded recently of a point that Adolf hitler made in mein kampf: namely he priced the catholic church for having a law of celibacy...which meant that dynasties could not form within the catholic power structure and their ruling class was always originating from the lower class. 

Believe it or not...Hitler was very democratic in his political sensibilities. No, he did not trust that the masses could responsibly elect their leaders...but he did have populist priorities and he believed the best leaders tend to come from humble beginnings (like hinself). 

The church historically was a major check against the excesses of nobility in the middle ages...and their attitudes towards reproduction were basically opposite (a female royal was basically little more more a birthing machine on average). Church driven policies tended to benefit the quality of life for the masses while policies from the king focused on increasing the power and wealth of the kingdom. And 5hat distinction could arguably be explained by the dichotomy in reproductive policy in those two institutions. (Elae popes and bishops might become little more than competitors to kings)

I believe that the loss of the political relevance of the church (and allowing priests to marry)...has been a major cause of our increasingly unequal society and the decline in the quality of life for the regular people. 

But I am also somewhat on the fence about this...because I do not love the rabble as much as Hitler does and I believe there is a large heritable component to good rulers....and under wise rule a rising tide somewhat lifts all ships.

Perhaps ideally there should be 2 competing groups of elites. One that follows a reproductive and narcissistic strategy and the other celibate and populist. That model might be the best for preserving liberty. But considering the extreme lack in our society of people who seriously believe God (I think most Christians only pretend to be Christian for cynical reasons)...it is hard to imagine what could motivate the celibate ruling class to emerge..

your posting ihere s like that of advanced aliens talking to monkeys

SJConspirator » 25 Jul 2022, 7:02 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 7:02 pm

your posting ihere s like that of advanced aliens talking to monkeys

It's rare to find people who actually read books.

FOS » 25 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm

I would say that even if this is true...the primary cause is probably that the priests have very weak faith. 

Obviously if they really believed they would go to hell for it...they would be unlikely to do it. Right?

I say that because I don't expect to ever- EVER - meet someone whose intellectual curiosity and regimen exceed mine, and you do.  Respect

This is why the history of the catholic church and the stories of popes and cardinals is so fascinating.. they were always balancing the physical realm of pragmatic ruthlessness with the hope of mercy and heavenly righteousness

FOS » 25 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm

I would say that even if this is true...the primary cause is probably that the priests have very weak faith. 

Obviously if they really believed they would go to hell for it...they would be unlikely to do it. Right?
 

the word of God is no better and no worse than the vocabulary of mankind fooling its own kind regardless within a family or as a society.

SJConspirator » 25 Jul 2022, 7:48 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 7:48 pm

I say that because I don't expect to ever- EVER - meet someone whose intellectual curiosity and regimen exceed mine, and you do.  Respect

It's an interesting post. Yours.

I don't equate myself in any way to your mentioned "regimen".
I do see some good postings now and then and wonder about the motivation behind them.
While you and FOS, among a couple others, see fit to put up something that requires a little extra effort, I can't help but be discouraged by those monkeys you say populate this board.
Kudos to those that try. I resigned myself to apathetic sound bites most of the time.  

Getting serious about a topic seems to always go south very quickly.
Such is cyberlife...

There have been quite a few NFL QBs I thought would have made great leaders in government.
Mike Rowe of "Dirty Jobs" is a celeb that comes to mind.
Pro Athletes are todays "warriors" in our society.....
WR Steve Largent was a guy who basically outsmarted and fought harder than the rest of the players to become a HOFer.
He did serve Oklahoma as a rep..but I think got disgusted / burned out with the grind.
The celebacy requirement would filter out too many good people.

DeezerShoove » 25 Jul 2022, 9:11 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 9:11 pm

It's an interesting post. Yours.

I don't equate myself in any way to your mentioned "regimen".
I do see some good postings now and then and wonder about the motivation behind them.
While you and FOS, among a couple others, see fit to put up something that requires a little extra effort, I can't help but be discouraged by those monkeys you say populate this board.
Kudos to those that try. I resigned myself to apathetic sound bites most of the time.  

Getting serious about a topic seems to always go south very quickly.
Such is cyberlife...

I don’t blame you for apathetic sound bytes.  But I have always considered writing to be a serious endeavor, and each post is a micro expression of your writing regimen as a whole.  I won’t post vapid nonsense and bring down the average quality of my body of work 

SJConspirator » 25 Jul 2022, 11:28 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 11:28 pm

I don’t blame you for apathetic sound bytes.  But I have always considered writing to be a serious endeavor, and each post is a micro expression of your writing regimen as a whole.  I won’t post vapid nonsense and bring down the average quality of my body of work 

In your own mind, and don't forget how many personal brains fall into one social mentality.

FOS » 25 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm

I would say that even if this is true...the primary cause is probably that the priests have very weak faith. 

Obviously if they really believed they would go to hell for it...they would be unlikely to do it. Right?

there is no "hell"...they know this.

SJConspirator » 25 Jul 2022, 11:28 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2022, 11:28 pm

I don’t blame you for apathetic sound bytes.  But I have always considered writing to be a serious endeavor, and each post is a micro expression of your writing regimen as a whole.  I won’t post vapid nonsense and bring down the average quality of my body of work

I agree.

I still "compose" a post and skim for errors and clarity.
It's very simple and shows respect for the reader (also myself as a writer).

I slop it up once in a while . . . for the **** of it.

TB7 » 26 Jul 2022, 5:59 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2022, 5:59 am

there is no "hell"...they know this.

They understand eternity and inflict all hell on anyone not complying to their legislated morality, legality, ethics, economic ways of controlling people cradle to grave 5 generations present.

the biggest joke about this thread, while ruling elites don't actually have sex with everyone they screw over, the whole topic of celibacy when intellect power of suggestion **** over other people's brains cradle to grave, guess what the original sin actually was/is to this day?

educating each next generation now cannot be eternity and everyone's point of origin is out there anywhere else but now, which it always was regardless inception of a species or conception of the next generation arriving one at a time.

You all think I rant over 93.75% of every great great grandchild is from their 4 previous generations to troll? It is subliminal messaging to kick in instinctive awareness society demands each person keep dormant in their own brain or face social charges of insubordination, treason, blasphemy.

Promises/oaths to keep secrets in a chain of command educated all they need to know to perform civic duties cradle to grave hoping for a better afterlife than the time they had being alive now.

Well being alive now is Natural World Order as being eternally separated in plain sight, kinetically without a doubt living is a series parallel event conceived to decomposed.

omh » 26 Jul 2022, 7:48 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2022, 7:48 am

They understand eternity and inflict all hell on anyone not complying to their legislated morality, legality, ethics, economic ways of controlling people cradle to grave 5 generations present.

religion can be used to control people, just like institutions the government, schools, marriage, and the military to name a few
 

Think you could prohibit nepotism without all the extra psychological baggage that comes with celibacy. Not **** isn't healthy.

TB7 » 26 Jul 2022, 8:10 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2022, 8:10 am

religion can be used to control people, just like institutions the government, schools, marriage, and the military to name a few
 

So does academia, arts, economics, politics, social justification by segments of "we believe and nobody can change our minds.". What about personal brain?
Life is a compounding series parallel set of changing results never same total sum forward from here, now and nowhere else possible.

Balance is kinetic.

polar opposites have many diameters in a sphere of boxed in mentalities believing life exceeds mutually evolving now.

My map of 24/7 https://i.postimg.cc/3wtqVzgz/Picture-152.jpg. there are 24 spaces between 7 degrees of separate displacements making up 3 generations.

changing from 3 generation map to 5 generation displacements. https://i.postimg.cc/HsrhKSxh/Picture-123.jpg
8 pink, 8 blue great great grandparents create 8 diagonal points on 4 parallel vertical planes as center mom and dad adding a great great grandchild regardless male or female infant. the 4 horizontal corners are grandparents. and their are depending upon interpretation 16 extra spaced added to the 24/7. intellectual methodology of training brains to mind ideas until extinction arrives so the few in control of the narratives stay in power until extinction event arrives.

the long game evolving with now being eternity and biology sustaining eternal separation of current ancestral results occupying space in plain sight.

omh » 26 Jul 2022, 8:22 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2022, 8:22 am

So does academia, arts, economics, politics, social justification by segments of "we believe and nobody can change our minds.". What about personal brain?
Life is a compounding series parallel set of changing results never same total sum forward from here, now and nowhere else possible.

Balance is kinetic.

polar opposites have many diameters in a sphere of boxed in mentalities believing life exceeds mutually evolving now.

My map of 24/7 https://i.postimg.cc/3wtqVzgz/Picture-152.jpg. there are 24 spaces between 7 degrees of separate displacements making up 3 generations.

changing from 3 generation map to 5 generation displacements. https://i.postimg.cc/HsrhKSxh/Picture-123.jpg
8 pink, 8 blue great great grandparents create 8 diagonal points on 4 parallel vertical planes as center mom and dad adding a great great grandchild regardless male or female infant. the 4 horizontal corners are grandparents. and their are depending upon interpretation 16 extra spaced added to the 24/7. intellectual methodology of training brains to mind ideas until extinction arrives so the few in control of the narratives stay in power until extinction event arrives.

the long game evolving with now being eternity and biology sustaining eternal separation of current ancestral results occupying space in plain sight.

Balanced forces cannot bring a body to rest. Balanced forces can act on a body which is already at rest or in motion, but equal forces cannot change a bodies acceleration, kinetic energy, or momentum.