Liberal Forum

Skans » 28 Jul 2022, 5:51 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2022, 5:51 am

When it comes to manufacturing fine things such as watches, vehicles or guns, certain nations excel such as Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Japan and even the Czechs to a more limited degree.  But the quality of Russian made products is 3rd world in comparison. 

Take mechanical watches for example. Each of the countries listed above (except for the Czechs) take pride in the ability of companies that can make very fine, precision watches.  But, then look at Russian made mechanical watches - freaking ugly as monkey **** and crudely made.  Yes, they work, but Russian made watches offend me they are so damn ugly.  I've tried to find one, JUST ONE, that I could say "now, that's a fine watch", but it's impossible.  They are all f-ing total ****. 

What about guns - can the Russians make a fine weapon?  No, they can't.  They make crude weapons that work.  Compare a Russian Over-Under shotgun made by Baikal to an O/U shotgun made by any of the Italian makers.  There is no comparison.  The Russian one is a monkey-turd that works ok, while the Italian shotguns can be as sought after as original paintings by famous artists.

It's that way with everything Russia makes.  For a country that is rather industrialized, Russia seems eons behind other European countries (and Japan) as to the level of fineness and quality.

Ever seen a 2 stroke engine hit 42,000 rpm..?
IN OTHER WORDS.....700 POWER STROKES PER SECOND BY A RINGLESS  HIGH SILICONE CONTENT PISTON RUNNING IN AN ALUMINUM / BRASS / CHROME LINER THAT IS TAPER HONED TO A .0001" INTERFERENCE FIT.
The World Class  Engine Builder I have done business with for many years is about as Russian as you can get...he lives in Nova Sibersk Siberia.
This will give you an idea of what a pipe timed  2.5cc engine.."MADE IN RUSSIA" is capable of delivering.
There are other Russian engine builders who cater to the "custom built crowd" who compete in international rules [FAI] speed contests.
https://youtu.be/4vAw1CC4A3g
 
 

Skans » 28 Jul 2022, 5:51 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2022, 5:51 am

When it comes to manufacturing fine things such as watches, vehicles or guns, certain nations excel such as Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Japan and even the Czechs to a more limited degree.  But the quality of Russian made products is 3rd world in comparison. 

Take mechanical watches for example. Each of the countries listed above (except for the Czechs) take pride in the ability of companies that can make very fine, precision watches.  But, then look at Russian made mechanical watches - freaking ugly as monkey **** and crudely made.  Yes, they work, but Russian made watches offend me they are so damn ugly.  I've tried to find one, JUST ONE, that I could say "now, that's a fine watch", but it's impossible.  They are all f-ing total ****. 

What about guns - can the Russians make a fine weapon?  No, they can't.  They make crude weapons that work.  Compare a Russian Over-Under shotgun made by Baikal to an O/U shotgun made by any of the Italian makers.  There is no comparison.  The Russian one is a monkey-turd that works ok, while the Italian shotguns can be as sought after as original paintings by famous artists.

It's that way with everything Russia makes.  For a country that is rather industrialized, Russia seems eons behind other European countries (and Japan) as to the level of fineness and quality.

FOS » 29 Jul 2022, 10:27 am » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 10:27 am

you are so **** bourgoise. Im throwing you to the marxists. FFS.

In the Era of the Timepiece, I wore a Citizen. Top quality at a low end price - functional, nothing to be ashamed of, appropriate to my demo.

In the Era of the Cell Phone, my wrists go commando - they freeball. 
 

Skans » 29 Jul 2022, 12:29 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 12:29 pm

Yeah, well, I'm probably pretty bourgeois myself. What exactly is the "middle class" these days?  How would you define it?

Dry wall, no roaches, good rubber always. Reliable water and electric, washer dryer in home, deep freezer. Gym membership. Police don't see you. 

If all of those apply, you're middle class. Which means you live an excellent life. 

Skans » 28 Jul 2022, 5:51 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2022, 5:51 am

When it comes to manufacturing fine things such as watches, vehicles or guns, certain nations excel such as Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Japan and even the Czechs to a more limited degree.  But the quality of Russian made products is 3rd world in comparison. 

Take mechanical watches for example. Each of the countries listed above (except for the Czechs) take pride in the ability of companies that can make very fine, precision watches.  But, then look at Russian made mechanical watches - freaking ugly as monkey **** and crudely made.  Yes, they work, but Russian made watches offend me they are so damn ugly.  I've tried to find one, JUST ONE, that I could say "now, that's a fine watch", but it's impossible.  They are all f-ing total ****. 

What about guns - can the Russians make a fine weapon?  No, they can't.  They make crude weapons that work.  Compare a Russian Over-Under shotgun made by Baikal to an O/U shotgun made by any of the Italian makers.  There is no comparison.  The Russian one is a monkey-turd that works ok, while the Italian shotguns can be as sought after as original paintings by famous artists.

It's that way with everything Russia makes.  For a country that is rather industrialized, Russia seems eons behind other European countries (and Japan) as to the level of fineness and quality.

Russia makes excellent gas…. If you don’t believe me, ask Germany

Skans » 29 Jul 2022, 1:21 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 1:21 pm

I didn't ask you about the "upper class".  I asked you if you think someone who has accumulated enough wealth to never work again is still in the middle class.  In other words, how do you define the middle class. 

Just because someone is no longer in the middle class, does not necessarily make him a member of the upper echelon of society - I am aware of that fact.

The notion that "middle class" means independently wealthy (don't have to work again, ever, except by choice) is just silly. 

I mean, seriously: silly. It simply makes the term meaningless. Or at least, removes it from serviceability. 

Skans » 28 Jul 2022, 1:12 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2022, 1:12 pm

Perhaps there is some truth to this.  I am looking at achievements, technical prowess, creativity, and peaceful governance to support what I claim.  Perhaps there is something systemically inferior about Slavs. Just speculation, not even a theory, and certainly I am not holding this out as fact.

All the years of collectivist Communist control never demanded quality or pride of human accomplishment. Planned economies always fail to produce quality. Because the individual does not matter.
 

Russia makes great computer programmers and hackers.. hell, they’re so good that they stole the presidential election from Hillary Clinton!
 

Skans » 29 Jul 2022, 1:26 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 1:26 pm

Certainly not middle class. The ability to work is not the same as the need to work.  I define the middle class as those who need to work to pay for what they want out of life. And, for whom, social security will be a significant part of their retirement income.

"Poor" are those who cannot provide the basic necessities for themselves without the assistance of others.

As for "Upper Class" - there are too many nuances to define this, and probably multiple classifications.

Okay - those are serviceable definitions. But you left out working class. They fall between the poor and the middle. They also must work - cannot afford the same number or quality of vacations, often must live in trailers or homes that lack drywall, often drive on the rubber that the middle class trade in. Bumps in the economic road are more disastrous for the working class - less cushion.

GeorgeWashington » 29 Jul 2022, 8:11 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 8:11 pm

Russia makes great computer programmers and hackers.. hell, they’re so good that they stole the presidential election from Hillary Clinton!

Russian gamers made Kings Bounty, the most beautiful video game ever.  There is no other PC game with such clean, perfect coding and amazing graphics.  And great storyline, even

Skans » 29 Jul 2022, 1:26 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 1:26 pm

Certainly not middle class. The ability to work is not the same as the need to work.  I define the middle class as those who need to work to pay for what they want out of life. And, for whom, social security will be a significant part of their retirement income.

"Poor" are those who cannot provide the basic necessities for themselves without the assistance of others.

As for "Upper Class" - there are too many nuances to define this, and probably multiple classifications.

In the working classes people often don’t have enough money to pay their bills, they don’t have enough money to pay their rent and yadda yadda, this is the reason why a great number of the overall population is negative, the working class view the world through a filter of scarcity materially and this seeps into their social interactions causing them to perceive people from a position of inferiority.



 Move up to the middle class and the problems of material scarcity are no longer such an issue, basics are afforded, as are things considered luxuries to the working class but essentials to the middle class, such as a “nice car”, a “decent smartphone” and a trip abroad at least once a year, however even with basic needs met and disposable income at the ready, the middle class have been sold a much more opulently luxurious lifestyle than the one that they live, for it is the very nature of consumerism to envy the rich.



 Move up to the rich/upper class and of course you find an abundance of resources, yet still very many of these people live in a mindset of scarcity. They have so much wealth that they have neither material nor luxury poverty, they have “love poverty” they’re not sure who to trust, they’re often paranoid, cynical and sceptical because they have a lot to lose. The insecurity of the rich also manifests as comparing themselves to the super rich, 5 million doesn’t seem much to a guy who has a friend with 50 million, although 5 million is enough to not have to ever work again and still live good.



 The scarcity of human connectivity is what the rich tend to suffer from as by merit of being so materially rich, trust becomes an issue (are they only interested in me because of my money?) and isolation thus tends to become a part of life, even in matters of family.
 

GHETTOBLASTER » 29 Jul 2022, 5:13 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 5:13 pm

Ever seen a 2 stroke engine hit 42,000 rpm..?
IN OTHER WORDS.....700 POWER STROKES PER SECOND BY A RINGLESS  HIGH SILICONE CONTENT PISTON RUNNING IN AN ALUMINUM / BRASS / CHROME LINER THAT IS TAPER HONED TO A .0001" INTERFERENCE FIT.
The World Class  Engine Builder I have done business with for many years is about as Russian as you can get...he lives in Nova Sibersk Siberia.
This will give you an idea of what a pipe timed  2.5cc engine.."MADE IN RUSSIA" is capable of delivering.
There are other Russian engine builders who cater to the "custom built crowd" who compete in international rules [FAI] speed contests.
https://youtu.be/4vAw1CC4A3g

Not quite sure what I was watching there.  Aren't most of these types of craft remote controlled?  Why did he have that on a tether?  Still, seems like you know what you are talking about in this realm of engineering.  I will have to defer to your knowledge in this area.
 

jerrab » 29 Jul 2022, 7:01 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 7:01 pm

While not my taste, I can certainly appreciate and admire the fine work of Faberge. 
 

Cannonpointer » 29 Jul 2022, 7:57 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 7:57 pm

Dry wall, no roaches, good rubber always. Reliable water and electric, washer dryer in home, deep freezer. Gym membership. Police don't see you. 

If all of those apply, you're middle class. Which means you live an excellent life.

I'd say I meet 95% of these metrics.  But, on my car (especially my high millage car) I run the tires down to the belts, if I can.  I shouldn't.  I can afford not to.  My dad would preach to me to always have good rubber on my vehicle.  Still, something inside me hates waste, and hates wasting tires that still work.
 

Cannonpointer » 29 Jul 2022, 8:14 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 8:14 pm

Okay - those are serviceable definitions. But you left out working class. They fall between the poor and the middle. They also must work - cannot afford the same number or quality of vacations, often must live in trailers or homes that lack drywall, often drive on the rubber that the middle class trade in. Bumps in the economic road are more disastrous for the working class - less cushion.

Ok, I'd accept that, "working class".  In fact, there really are more than 3 classes in our country, I could count at least 6 - and it could probably be broken down even more than that.  I think that's a good thing, though. 
 

SJConspirator » 29 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm

In the working classes people often don’t have enough money to pay their bills, they don’t have enough money to pay their rent and yadda yadda, this is the reason why a great number of the overall population is negative, the working class view the world through a filter of scarcity materially and this seeps into their social interactions causing them to perceive people from a position of inferiority.

 Move up to the middle class and the problems of material scarcity are no longer such an issue, basics are afforded, as are things considered luxuries to the working class but essentials to the middle class, such as a “nice car”, a “decent smartphone” and a trip abroad at least once a year, however even with basic needs met and disposable income at the ready, the middle class have been sold a much more opulently luxurious lifestyle than the one that they live, for it is the very nature of consumerism to envy the rich.

 Move up to the rich/upper class and of course you find an abundance of resources, yet still very many of these people live in a mindset of scarcity. They have so much wealth that they have neither material nor luxury poverty, they have “love poverty” they’re not sure who to trust, they’re often paranoid, cynical and sceptical because they have a lot to lose. The insecurity of the rich also manifests as comparing themselves to the super rich, 5 million doesn’t seem much to a guy who has a friend with 50 million, although 5 million is enough to not have to ever work again and still live good.

 The scarcity of human connectivity is what the rich tend to suffer from as by merit of being so materially rich, trust becomes an issue (are they only interested in me because of my money?) and isolation thus tends to become a part of life, even in matters of family.
 

While I really can't disagree with what you've said, I'd probably break today's classes in America down to the following:
1.  Illegal Immigrant class
2.  Homeless class
3.  Poor - can't find work and relies on public assistance to survive; but still has a permanent roof over his head
4.  Working Class - we'll go with yours and @Cannonpointer's definition which is not that far apart
5.  Middle Class
6.  Upper Middle Class
7.  Independently wealthy
8.  Political Class (long term elected politician)
9.  Blue-bloods - come from families who have had money for at least several generations, don't need to work.
10.  Uber-Rich - Those with discretionary wealth in excess of $100 Million.
11.  Billionaire's Club


 

Skans » 30 Jul 2022, 11:04 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2022, 11:04 am

Not quite sure what I was watching there.  Aren't most of these types of craft remote controlled?  Why did he have that on a tether?  Still, seems like you know what you are talking about in this realm of engineering.  I will have to defer to your knowledge in this area.

I use these engines to fly radio control.....but this class of engine was designed for what you see in the video...which is called "CONTROL LINE SPEED"
Control line models came before remote control and to this day there is still some interest in flying models off of thin steel cables [or even fishing string]
The plane in the video is what this "speed plane" event evolved into for drag reduction. ..an assymetric design.
At the very end of the video you get a glimpse of the plane up close. The engine is rear exhaust with a tuned pipe. The engine is inside a fiberglass cowl. The prop is a single blade design [counterweighted]. The idea is that at high rpm a 2 blade prop is running in cavitated air and can't get as big of a bite in clean air as a single blade can.
Here is a different model plane event that I think is more interesting to watch. 
CONTROL LINE COMBAT
They use  a "detuned" version of the same basic Russian engine...[the match is over after one of the pilots loses his streamer]
The planes [that most flyers use nowadays] are made in Russia and sold in batches to competitors all over the world.
https://youtu.be/tRTpZGkEplg
 

GHETTOBLASTER » 30 Jul 2022, 11:28 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2022, 11:28 am

I use these engines to fly radio control.....but this class of engine was designed for what you see in the video...which is called "CONTROL LINE SPEED"
Control line models came before remote control and to this day there is still some interest in flying models off of thin steel cables [or even fishing string]
The plane in the video is what this "speed plane" event evolved into for drag reduction. ..an assymetric design.
At the very end of the video you get a glimpse of the plane up close. The engine is rear exhaust with a tuned pipe. The engine is inside a fiberglass cowl. The prop is a single blade design [counterweighted]. The idea is that at high rpm a 2 blade prop is running in cavitated air and can't get as big of a bite in clean air as a single blade can.
Here is a different model plane event that I think is more interesting to watch. 
CONTROL LINE COMBAT
They use  a "detuned" version of the same basic Russian engine...[the match is over after one of the pilots loses his streamer]
The planes [that most flyers use nowadays] are made in Russia and sold in batches to competitors all over the world.
https://youtu.be/tRTpZGkEplg

There's a lot of **** out there that I know nothing about.  This was fun to watch.  

When I was a small kid, I did have a plastic glow-plug powered plane that was line controlled, but way less sophisticated than what is in that video.  I always had a problem getting the thing to start - probably wasn't using the right type of fuel.  I'd use whatever I could get my hands on, including gasoline, kerosene, alcohol - whatever.  Some worked, others did not.  I used to cut the **** out of my hands trying to start the F-ing thing.  Sometimes, I could get it to fly for a couple of minutes like that, but then it would crash, or sometimes, I just liked to make it crash.  I eventually destroyed it beyond all repair, and that was the end of that.  My parents were glad to see it gone - that's about when I got into blowing **** up and bb-guns.
 

Skans » 30 Jul 2022, 11:53 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2022, 11:53 am

There's a lot of **** out there that I know nothing about.  This was fun to watch.  

When I was a small kid, I did have a plastic glow-plug powered plane that was line controlled, but way less sophisticated than what is in that video.  I always had a problem getting the thing to start - probably wasn't using the right type of fuel.  I'd use whatever I could get my hands on, including gasoline, kerosene, alcohol - whatever.  Some worked, others did not.  I used to cut the **** out of my hands trying to start the F-ing thing.  Sometimes, I could get it to fly for a couple of minutes like that, but then it would crash, or sometimes, I just liked to make it crash.  I eventually destroyed it beyond all repair, and that was the end of that.  My parents were glad to see it gone - that's about when I got into blowing **** up and bb-guns.

It's amazing how many of those plastic models sold...millions. The success rate of the 12 year old Rookie Pilots was pretty low...my plastic COX P-40  lasted 2 seconds after take off.
A lot of Russian stuff is of course second rate.
Ever seen anyone bother to restore an old  Russian Car....   ?

 

Skans » 30 Jul 2022, 11:07 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2022, 11:07 am

While not my taste, I can certainly appreciate and admire the fine work of Faberge.

russian toys are cool too.  I believe in giving credit when credit is due.

https://youtu.be/DgWjwRd2LgQ