Liberal Forum

The sort of default position on religion is that it is something that is true or false. But this cannot be..and it is a rather silly thing to think. 

Did Christianity spread because there were some really good arguments for Christianity?  No...it spread because some kings converted and then conquered Europe and later much of the rest of the world. Islam also conquered via conquest. And Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. All religions follow power. 

If your ruling class is a certain religion, you convert to it. And then your descendants carry on because it was tradition. The process of persuading people that it is true is irrelevirreleva4ar3ly causes anything at all. 

Thus blacks in the usa converted to christianity...and Hong Kong to the Anglican church...etc. 

and it makes sense that it should be thus because religion fundamentally is not about what is true. It is instead about getting everyone in a society on the same page about their ethics, laws, values, and survival strategy.. Nobody uses religion to say...build airplanes or split atoms.. it is a thing that people are expected to pretend is true so that the society functions properly. 

With that paradigm in mind...how can we explain the rise of atheism?

Well that is easy to understand if you realize that our rulers are invisible these days. We have no idea who they are. We know they are bribing the politicians...but their name and address is more obscure. 

So sense all people derive their religion from their ruling class...an invisible ruling class can naturally be expected to produce atheism and nihilism...and the rise in atheism coincides quite well with the decline of the visible wasp elite.. 

FOS » 03 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm

The sort of default position on religion is that it is something that is true or false. But this cannot be..and it is a rather silly thing to think. 

Did Christianity spread because there were some really good arguments for Christianity?  No...it spread because some kings converted and then conquered Europe and later much of the rest of the world. Islam also conquered via conquest. And Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. All religions follow power. 

If your ruling class is a certain religion, you convert to it. And then your descendants carry on because it was tradition. The process of persuading people that it is true is irrelevirreleva4ar3ly causes anything at all. 

Thus blacks in the usa converted to christianity...and Hong Kong to the Anglican church...etc. 

and it makes sense that it should be thus because religion fundamentally is not about what is true. It is instead about getting everyone in a society on the same page about their ethics, laws, values, and survival strategy.. Nobody uses religion to say...build airplanes or split atoms.. it is a thing that people are expected to pretend is true so that the society functions properly. 

With that paradigm in mind...how can we explain the rise of atheism?

Well that is easy to understand if you realize that our rulers are invisible these days. We have no idea who they are. We know they are bribing the politicians...but their name and address is more obscure. 

So sense all people derive their religion from their ruling class...an invisible ruling class can naturally be expected to produce atheism and nihilism...and the rise in atheism coincides quite well with the decline of the visible wasp elite..

The field of medicine has replaced the church

Very well written and insightful. Aside from what is or is not true as repeated by theologians, my belief is that before modern and widespread law was established, religion was also used as a tool to assist people to live in self-controlled civility when there was no law close at hand to guide or punish them. Inherent in texts is the ever-present threat of non-human punishment, where "God fearing" comes into play. The law and the punishment, all from a book. And it worked. It still does.

I believe you may have alluded to that, but my IQ isn't 146, so I'm not positive.

DeplorablePatriot » 03 Aug 2022, 10:03 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2022, 10:03 pm

Very well written and insightful. Aside from what is or is not true as repeated by theologians, my belief is that before modern and widespread law was established, religion was also used as a tool to assist people to live in self-controlled civility when there was no law close at hand to guide or punish them. Inherent in texts is the ever-present threat of non-human punishment, where "God fearing" comes into play. The law and the punishment, all from a book. And it worked. It still does.

I believe you may have alluded to that, but my IQ isn't 146, so I'm not positive.

Well thanks. Yeah I said it is useful for getting everyone in a society to share the same laws, ethics, values. And it precedes law. The 'secular' law doesn't come from peoples imagination...it is based on the myths and fables of a people

FOS » 03 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm

The sort of default position on religion is that it is something that is true or false. But this cannot be..and it is a rather silly thing to think. 

Did Christianity spread because there were some really good arguments for Christianity?  No...it spread because some kings converted and then conquered Europe and later much of the rest of the world. Islam also conquered via conquest. And Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. All religions follow power. 

If your ruling class is a certain religion, you convert to it. And then your descendants carry on because it was tradition. The process of persuading people that it is true is irrelevirreleva4ar3ly causes anything at all. 

Thus blacks in the usa converted to christianity...and Hong Kong to the Anglican church...etc. 

and it makes sense that it should be thus because religion fundamentally is not about what is true. It is instead about getting everyone in a society on the same page about their ethics, laws, values, and survival strategy.. Nobody uses religion to say...build airplanes or split atoms.. it is a thing that people are expected to pretend is true so that the society functions properly. 

With that paradigm in mind...how can we explain the rise of atheism?

Well that is easy to understand if you realize that our rulers are invisible these days. We have no idea who they are. We know they are bribing the politicians...but their name and address is more obscure. 

So sense all people derive their religion from their ruling class...an invisible ruling class can naturally be expected to produce atheism and nihilism...and the rise in atheism coincides quite well with the decline of the visible wasp elite.. 

what changes between true and false compared to universal binary code 0 or 1? Human behavior cradle to grave each generation passing by changing population inception to extinction event in this atmosphere now.

FOS » 03 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm

The sort of default position on religion is that it is something that is true or false. But this cannot be..and it is a rather silly thing to think. 

Did Christianity spread because there were some really good arguments for Christianity?  No...it spread because some kings converted and then conquered Europe and later much of the rest of the world. Islam also conquered via conquest. And Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. All religions follow power. 

If your ruling class is a certain religion, you convert to it. And then your descendants carry on because it was tradition. The process of persuading people that it is true is irrelevirreleva4ar3ly causes anything at all. 

Thus blacks in the usa converted to christianity...and Hong Kong to the Anglican church...etc. 

and it makes sense that it should be thus because religion fundamentally is not about what is true. It is instead about getting everyone in a society on the same page about their ethics, laws, values, and survival strategy.. Nobody uses religion to say...build airplanes or split atoms.. it is a thing that people are expected to pretend is true so that the society functions properly. 

With that paradigm in mind...how can we explain the rise of atheism?

Well that is easy to understand if you realize that our rulers are invisible these days. We have no idea who they are. We know they are bribing the politicians...but their name and address is more obscure. 

So sense all people derive their religion from their ruling class...an invisible ruling class can naturally be expected to produce atheism and nihilism...and the rise in atheism coincides quite well with the decline of the visible wasp elite..

"it is a thing that people are expected to pretend is true so that the society functions properly."

The spirit is a real thing that you feel, that's the reason Christianity began and has continued on.

These people also seem to be receiving some kind of a spirit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEPmA3USJdI
 

so what is the story regarding Hinduism, Islam, Jews, Buda ???

The field of medicine has replaced the church

It is pretty clear that medicine SHOULD replace the Church when it comes to curing diseases.
Jesus may have cured a dozen or so lepers and blind people.

But when have you seen an actual leper lately? There are none! Antibiotics has almost ended leprosy.
To catch leprosy in the US, you would have to sleep with a lot of armadillos.

Cataracts cause blindness, and are easily removed with lasers.
Medicine is much more effective at curing the sick than religious relics like the toe of St Jerome or the fibia of St Finian.

Xavier_Onassis » 04 Aug 2022, 9:57 am » wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022, 9:57 am

The field of medicine has replaced the church

It is pretty clear that medicine SHOULD replace the Church when it comes to curing diseases.
Jesus may have cured a dozen or so lepers and blind people.

But when have you seen an actual leper lately? There are none! Antibiotics has almost ended leprosy.
To catch leprosy in the US, you would have to sleep with a lot of armadillos.

Cataracts cause blindness, and are easily removed with lasers.
Medicine is much more effective at curing the sick than religious relics like the toe of St Jerome or the fibia of St Finian.

Or have children play with them as pets and it spreads back to parents. Or family is starving and trying to eat anything as food and in meal preparation come in contact with what causes leprosy.