Liberal Forum

Only serious WWII historians are invited to this thread:
FOS
Cannon Pointer
Vegas
Huey
In will with hold my own opinion until the end.

He saw Russia just as big a risk as Germany. They killed him for it.

nuckinfutz » 13 Aug 2022, 9:54 pm » wrote: ↑

13 Aug 2022, 9:54 pm

Only serious WWII historians are invited to this thread:
FOS
Cannon Pointer
Vegas
Huey
In will with hold my own opinion until the end.

dude he was very clear about how he felt in his letters to his wife. They guy decided the nazis were the good guys. He developed some disgust for the jews under his care. And the thought the usa should go to war with the ussr

Neo » 13 Aug 2022, 10:25 pm » wrote: ↑

13 Aug 2022, 10:25 pm

He saw Russia just as big a risk as Germany. They killed him for it.

although that is a plausible conspiracy theory I wouldn't mention it in this thread cause we don't really have evidence for that and it doesn't answer the question. 

Anyway I woukd go further. He decided germans should not have even been the enemy. Indeed he called them the 'most beautiful race' in europe

Neo » 13 Aug 2022, 10:25 pm » wrote: ↑

13 Aug 2022, 10:25 pm

He saw Russia just as big a risk as Germany. They killed him for it.

Question being did DDE arrange the accident or was it HST, or both? This country was changing into a socialist nation since before Woodrow Wilson administration.
that is over 100 years ago.

Baby steps by subliminal means nobody notices until it was completed in 5 generation gaps or less.

nuckinfutz » 13 Aug 2022, 9:54 pm » wrote: ↑

13 Aug 2022, 9:54 pm

Only serious WWII historians are invited to this thread:
FOS
Cannon Pointer
Vegas
Huey
In will with hold my own opinion until the end.

 You defeated the wrong enemy because you joined a commune group of old world country's that have been in constant pagan barbarian war slaver conflict sense the beginning of recorded history. When your family left the old world they possibly said goodby and don't ever contact us again at the best if you were not sold and chained down on a slaver ship or somehow managed to escape with your life.

I think Ike knew we were 'war weary" and could not entertain the thought of a war to push Russia back. Besides we still were fighting the Japs in the Pacific theater.
And FDR felt we should show gratitude towards the Soviet Union for all they did to defeat Hitler.
Patton may have been right, but the costs of fighting them would be enormous.
 

nuckinfutz » 15 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm

I think Ike knew we were 'war weary" and could not entertain the thought of a war to push Russia back. Besides we still were fighting the Japs in the Pacific theater.
And FDR felt we should show gratitude towards the Soviet Union for all they did to defeat Hitler.
Patton may have been right, but the costs of fighting them would be enormous.

what you don't seem to understand is that fdr and Churchill actually loved Stalin 

even BEFORE ww2, both openly celebrated Stalin and suggested there were good things about communism

The Nazis proposed to turn over the remains of their Air Force. There were ME 262 in their arsenal. The plan was to unite with the allies and attack Russia. Eisenhower scoffed. Patton favored a war with Russia. My father bombed Germany and he told me about Patton and the conspiracy to kill him in the middle 50's. Pattons maneuver to relieve the Bastogne encirclement was a good one.

nuckin futz » 15 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm

I think Ike knew we were 'war weary" and could not entertain the thought of a war to push Russia back. Besides we still were fighting the Japs in the Pacific theater.
And FDR felt we should show gratitude towards the Soviet Union for all they did to defeat Hitler.
Patton may have been right, but the costs of fighting them would be enormous.
 

Rationalizing away real life then and here. ssdd. Nobody wants honest answers because every reality is suggesting life cannot be self contained to genetics eternally separating ancestors occupying space now.

Every reality contextually protected is corrupting each added great great grandchild forward here now and has been since dawn of civilization by this species.

Patton was a racist and a Fascist, the descendant of  a long line of plantation owners and military elitists. He was quite fond of the traditional German officer corps, but Hitler was to him more of a rabble rousing peasant.

So, to Patton, SOME of the Germans were fine and patriotic and admirable. But the Russians were totally ruled by uppity peasants, and therefore were all unworthy of ruling anything.

He was a far nastier guy than the heroic figure portrayed by George C Scott in the film Patton.  Scott was handsome, Patton was more toadlike in appearance.  Of course, I do not think that a toadlike person can be patriotic and wonderful in every way, but most of what most Americans know about Patton are based on Scott's terrific performance in the biopic.

Only serious historians have an accurate knowledge of the real Patton. There are several good biographies, those written most recently are the more accurate and better researched.

nuckinfutz » 15 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm

I think Ike knew we were 'war weary" and could not entertain the thought of a war to push Russia back. Besides we still were fighting the Japs in the Pacific theater.
And FDR felt we should show gratitude towards the Soviet Union for all they did to defeat Hitler.
Patton may have been right, but the costs of fighting them would be enormous.

Defeating Russia would have been impossible. There is just too much of it.  The US, the UK and others sent expeditionary forces in the 1920's defeat the Communists and other revolutionary groups, it was a failure and is virtually unknown to most Americans.

FOS » 13 Aug 2022, 10:42 pm » wrote: ↑

13 Aug 2022, 10:42 pm

dude he was very clear about how he felt in his letters to his wife. They guy decided the nazis were the good guys. He developed some disgust for the jews under his care. And the thought the usa should go to war with the ussr

He thought war with the Soviet union was inevitable and should be fought while we were there. 



Patton was a warrior and Glory hound, he would have kept fighting until the end of time if able. He was also a bit psychotic with a thought process of grandeur. 
 

Xavier_Onassis » 16 Aug 2022, 8:56 am » wrote: ↑

16 Aug 2022, 8:56 am

Defeating Russia would have been impossible. There is just too much of it.  The US, the UK and others sent expeditionary forces in the 1920's defeat the Communists and other revolutionary groups, it was a failure and is virtually unknown to most Americans.

The only reason why Russia rebounded after the nazis stalled out in Stalingrad was due to the U. S sending mass amounts of food, steel and oil to help rebuild their war machine. Without the U. S supplying all the allies including Russia the Nazis would have won. 

I agree that without both the US providing the weapons and the Russians supplying the troops, the Germans would have won WWII.
However it is also true that the US, with or without Patton, was in no position in 1945 to attack the USSR and conquer it. The American public wanted an end to Hitler, and after that an end to Japan, and they wanted an end to the War. It would have been politically impossible as well as physically possible for the USSR to defeat the USSR on its own turf.

Just as it would have been impossible for the Soviets to defeat the USA on its own turf.

johndnorth » 15 Aug 2022, 8:30 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Aug 2022, 8:30 pm

The Nazis proposed to turn over the remains of their Air Force. There were ME 262 in their arsenal. The plan was to unite with the allies and attack Russia. Eisenhower scoffed. Patton favored a war with Russia. My father bombed Germany and he told me about Patton and the conspiracy to kill him in the middle 50's. Pattons maneuver to relieve the Bastogne encirclement was a good one.

Patton was a great tank commander. What he did, he did well, no one can question his military competence.
But the USA could not have defeated the USSR on its own turf after 1945, not politically possible, and not physically possible.
If you believe this, you need to read a lot more.

Xavier_Onassis » 16 Aug 2022, 8:53 am » wrote: ↑

16 Aug 2022, 8:53 am

Patton was a racist and a Fascist, the descendant of  a long line of plantation owners and military elitists. He was quite fond of the traditional German officer corps, but Hitler was to him more of a rabble rousing peasant.

So, to Patton, SOME of the Germans were fine and patriotic and admirable. But the Russians were totally ruled by uppity peasants, and therefore were all unworthy of ruling anything.

He was a far nastier guy than the heroic figure portrayed by George C Scott in the film Patton.  Scott was handsome, Patton was more toadlike in appearance.  Of course, I do not think that a toadlike person can be patriotic and wonderful in every way, but most of what most Americans know about Patton are based on Scott's terrific performance in the biopic.

Only serious historians have an accurate knowledge of the real Patton. There are several good biographies, those written most recently are the more accurate and better researched.

He was raised a typecast individual so he is capable of understanding stereotyped characters following a regional rule of law doing the same **** his own ideology is doing for the same reasons without doubt.

Xavier_Onassis » 16 Aug 2022, 9:15 am » wrote: ↑

16 Aug 2022, 9:15 am

I agree that without both the US providing the weapons and the Russians supplying the troops, the Germans would have won WWII.
However it is also true that the US, with or without Patton, was in no position in 1945 to attack the USSR and conquer it. The American public wanted an end to Hitler, and after that an end to Japan, and they wanted an end to the War. It would have been politically impossible as well as physically possible for the USSR to defeat the USSR on its own turf.

Just as it would have been impossible for the Soviets to defeat the USA on its own turf.

We had nukes at the end of world war 2 Russia did not. We would have mopped the floor with the red army 

I think it was because General Patton saw the DEMOCRAT Party as a THREAT to Democracy, and to the peace of the WORLD, JUST as much as the NAZIS were... and so, he WANTED to turn his army to face the Democrats, and WIPE them off of the FACE of the EARTH... BUT, was stopped by those in charge !!

OR... was that the Russians ??

 
 
 

Hank » 16 Aug 2022, 10:02 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Aug 2022, 10:02 pm

We had nukes at the end of world war 2 Russia did not. We would have mopped the floor with the red army 

We had two prototypes and used both in the pacific, and the know how to build more when needed.