Border Order
By LibDave
31 Aug 2022 7:51 pm in No Holds Barred Political Forum
1 Sep 2022 10:49 am
Not so. Communism/labor unions fail for different reasons. Republicans aren't anti-union.Pastafarian » 01 Sep 2022, 10:23 am » wrote: ↑ Labor unions suffer bcuz Republicans are anti-union, not bcuz of immigrants.
1 Sep 2022 11:04 am
You appear to see everything from the perspective of labor unions and lack the ability to see things from an American perspective. Labor Unions and the impact of illegal immigration are two different subjects separate from the OP. Labor unions haven't failed due to immigration. Labor unions failed on their own accord. And Republicans aren't anti-union. Republicans just believe in capitalism and are pro labor of all types. As capitalists they reject communism and mandate free labor must also be allowed to compete side-by-side with labor unions should it so desire. Communism\labor unions would have failed regardless as it is a proven failure. Labor unions largely suffered quite some time ago. Labor unions have been in decline for some time now due to reasons far in excess of immigration. Labor unions kill the goose that laid the golden egg and only thrive in an economy operating largely under the auspices of free labor markets. As more an more labor is unionized the workers, including union workers, suffer in despair.GHETTOBLASTER » 01 Sep 2022, 10:31 am » wrote: ↑ What was a "BOOM" to the needs of our nation 100 years ago does not apply now.
MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE TAKING MILLIONS OF JOBS AWAY FROM MILLIONS OF US CITIZENS.
BEFORE ILLEGAL ALIENS INVADED THE SKILLED LABOR MARKET A UNION TRADESMAN COULD AFFORD A HOUSE, 3 KIDS AND A WIFE TO ACT AS A FULL TIME MOTHER.
THE UNION MARKETSHARE HAS SUFFERED GREATLY THANKS TO MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS
THIS IS NOT DEBATABLE.
1 Sep 2022 11:07 am
LibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 11:04 am » wrote: ↑ You appear to see everything from the perspective of labor unions and lack the ability to see things from an American perspective. Labor Unions and the impact of illegal immigration are two different subjects separate from the OP. Labor unions haven't failed due to immigration. Labor unions failed on their own accord. And Republicans aren't anti-union. Republicans just believe in capitalism and are pro labor of all types. As capitalists they reject communism and mandate free labor must also be allowed to compete side-by-side with labor unions should it so desire. Communism\labor unions would have failed regardless as it is a proven failure. Labor unions largely suffered quite some time ago. Labor unions have been in decline for some time now due to reasons far in excess of immigration. Labor unions kill the goose that laid the golden egg and only thrive in an economy operating largely under the auspices of free labor markets. As more an more labor is unionized the workers, including union workers, suffer in despair.
What part of "illegal" do you not understand?
1 Sep 2022 11:09 am
STOP PRETENDING THAT YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE RISE AND FALL OF THE LABOR UNIONS..LibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 11:04 am » wrote: ↑ You appear to see everything from the perspective of labor unions and lack the ability to see things from an American perspective. Labor Unions and the impact of illegal immigration are two different subjects separate from the OP. Labor unions haven't failed due to immigration. Labor unions failed on their own accord. And Republicans aren't anti-union. Republicans just believe in capitalism and are pro labor of all types. As capitalists they reject communism and mandate free labor must also be allowed to compete side-by-side with labor unions should it so desire. Communism\labor unions would have failed regardless as it is a proven failure. Labor unions largely suffered quite some time ago. Labor unions have been in decline for some time now due to reasons far in excess of immigration. Labor unions kill the goose that laid the golden egg and only thrive in an economy operating largely under the auspices of free labor markets. As more an more labor is unionized the workers, including union workers, suffer in despair.
IT INSULTS MY EYES TO READ YOUR IGNORANT BS.
READ THIS MAP IN DETAIL AND THEN TELL ME THAT ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE A "BOOM" TO OUR SOCIETY......
1 Sep 2022 11:17 am
Best comment of this thread !
1 Sep 2022 11:22 am
I know a great deal about labor unions and economics. Communism just doesn't work. What you fail to realize is if you add up all the wages paid to all of these immigrant laborers (some are legal immigrant workers, many are not) you will find their wages are more than offset by reductions in prices. So from the perspective of the American economy they are a benefit as we recoup the cost of their wages when we go to the store and purchase say strawberries. That goes for everything they produce which we subsequently purchase. Including home prices.GHETTOBLASTER » 01 Sep 2022, 11:09 am » wrote: ↑ STOP PRETENDING THAT YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE RISE AND FALL OF THE LABOR UNIONS..
IT INSULTS MY EYES TO READ YOUR IGNORANT BS.
READ THIS MAP IN DETAIL AND THEN TELL ME THAT ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE A "BOOM" TO OUR SOCIETY......
Now if you wish to change the subject to the issues regarding labor unions I will humor you. Just don't make the mistake that what benefits labor unions is also a benefit to the US. Labor unions are MORE of a detriment to the US economy and are in themselves guilty of taking a disproportionate amount of the nation's resources in comparison with their production.
1 Sep 2022 11:37 am
It might surprise you to know I wholeheartedly agree. We should not be allowing illegal immigration. We must be a nation of laws and we must control who we allow to immigrate to the US. What is currently transpiring on our borders is a catastrophe. But if we are to get to a point of resolution it is important to correctly identify what the restrictions on immigration should be based upon and what it is about immigration which is a detriment and what is a benefit.
1 Sep 2022 12:13 pm
Republicans are anti union.LibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 10:49 am » wrote: ↑ Not so. Communism/labor unions fail for different reasons. Republicans aren't anti-union.
Unions were responsible for the period of middle class prosperity never before seen in this country.
Unions were corrupted by the mob not by communists.
1 Sep 2022 12:15 pm
That’s a load of ****, parrot boy.
1 Sep 2022 12:18 pm
Unions ARE communism. And no, unions were in no way responsible for the rise in prosperity of the middle class or ANY class. As a whole unions are and have been a detriment to an otherwise prosperous free market economy.Pastafarian » 01 Sep 2022, 12:13 pm » wrote: ↑ Republicans are anti union.
Unions were responsible for the period of middle class prosperity never before seen in this country.
Unions were corrupted by the mob not by communists.
1 Sep 2022 12:25 pm
I don’t disagree tgat they are influenced by communism. But the mob corrupted them.LibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 12:18 pm » wrote: ↑ Unions ARE communism. And no, unions were in not way responsible for the rise in prosperity of the middle class or ANY class. As a whole unions are and have been a detriment to an otherwise prosperous free market economy.
Unions weee wholly responsible for a booming middle class and time with family.
The free market had been corrupted by capitalism pre and post union. The time the free market flourished was afterbTeddy Roosevelt broke up capitalist monopolies ruining American’s futures and when unions were at their height.
Reagan destroyed the middle class.
1 Sep 2022 12:28 pm
That assumes every business owner, that is so unethical they are willing to commit a crime, passes the labor savings on the their customer in the form of lower prices.LibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 9:52 am » wrote: ↑ However, for the nation as a whole it is actually a small economic benefit due to the fact prices for the products they produce are lower to an even greater extent than the wages they are paid. So for every dollar lost to a legal worker (say a roofer) there are more dollars saved when I go to purchase a house.
Do you really not see the flaw in that logic?
I have long been an advocate of coming down hard on any business that uses illegal labor. The laws need to be much harsher than they are, the fines need to be much larger and should be levied against the company and the CEO/Owner jointly and severally...along with the employee being deported to their country of origin within 24 hours.
1 Sep 2022 12:43 pm
We are in complete agreement in regards to the hiring of illegals. And I would welcome a law (which is actually enforced) which mandates a $5000 fine and 5 years in prison for each count for all those you identified... MANDATORY.ConsRule » 01 Sep 2022, 12:28 pm » wrote: ↑ That assumes every business owner, that is so unethical they are willing to commit a crime, passes the labor savings on the their customer in the form of lower prices.
Do you really not see the flaw in that logic?
I have long been an advocate of coming down hard on any business that uses illegal labor. The laws need to be much harsher than they are, the fines need to be much larger and should be levied against the company and the CEO/Owner jointly and severally...along with the employee being deported to their country of origin within 24 hours.
Where I took exception was in identifying the reason for such legal remedies. Legal immigrant workers do not harm our economy (nor do illegal workers). Their economic impact is a benefit to the nation as a whole. And they most certainly DO NOT harm union workers. Union workers benefit perhaps more than any other. For the most part union labor does not compete with immigrate labor. That is in fact the whole point of unions and the reason they are able to THEMSELVES consume an unjustifiable and disproportionate amount of the nations resources. The whole point of unions is to eliminate any competition in any particular industry. In the vast majority of the cases these unions use unethical tactics to accomplish just that.
It is comparable to a thief (union worker) complaining that a previous customer purchased goods from a merchant before they were able to rob the merchant of those same goods.
1 Sep 2022 12:45 pm
What you fail to take into account is the cost of the social services that illegals ALL require, which are not nearly covered by their low-wage "contributions" as you see them. When millions of illegals flood the country as they have over the past 18 months, who pays for their health care? Who pays to educate their children? Do they not have a need for policemen, firemen, DMV expenses, employment and daycare services, or dozens of other social services that are so stupidly given out for free by Biden with our tax dollars? Who paid for the free smartphones they were handed, along with their free cell service? How long does an illegal have to work under your scenario before his value to our country exceeds the $3,874 "refugee cash assistance" program they are handed? Who pays for their Medicaid or any major surgeries they require at a hospital where it illegal to turn away ANYONE in need? How many become drug mules for the cartels who are forced to bring them into this country, not to mention the MS13 and other gang members who immediately begin preying on our law-abiding citizens and businesses? How many young girls are sold into sexual slavery after being raped or beaten even when they agree to comply?LibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 11:37 am » wrote: ↑ It might surprise you to know I wholeheartedly agree. We should not be allowing illegal immigration. We must be a nation of laws and we must control who we allow to immigrate to the US. What is currently transpiring on our borders is a catastrophe. But if we are to get to a point of resolution it is important to correctly identify what the restrictions on immigration should be based upon and what it is about immigration which is a detriment and what is a benefit.
(Continued...)
1 Sep 2022 12:53 pm
(...continued)
I appreciate your input on their suffering throughout their journey, and no one could be pleased to learn of their mistreatment, but the entire problem lies at the feet of Biden, the most inept president in US history, and the feckless Dems in Congress who refuse to hold him accountable! WE HAVE IMMIGRATION LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY, and Biden and Garland HAVE COMMITTED FELONIES BY INTENTIONALLY IGNORING THOSE LAWS! Aiding and abetting illegals IS A FELONY, and both Biden and Garland need to be brought up on charges as soon as the Republicans take control of Congress in Jan., and explain why they intentionally are ignoring Federal law!:Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)“Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”
Section 274 felonies under the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act: A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
Can any liberal deny that Biden has been breaking the law with impunity for the past year and a half?* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
1 Sep 2022 12:54 pm
BE SURE TO HIRE NOTHING BUT ILLEGAL ALIENS WHENEVER POSSIBLE AND TELL YOURSELF THAT IT'S GOOD FOR THE USA YOU MOTHER **** TRAITORLibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 11:22 am » wrote: ↑ I know a great deal about labor unions and economics. Communism just doesn't work. What you fail to realize is if you add up all the wages paid to all of these immigrant laborers (some are legal immigrant workers, many are not) you will find their wages are more than offset by reductions in prices. So from the perspective of the American economy they are a benefit as we recoup the cost of their wages when we go to the store and purchase say strawberries. That goes for everything they produce which we subsequently purchase. Including home prices.
Now if you wish to change the subject to the issues regarding labor unions I will humor you. Just don't make the mistake that what benefits labor unions is also a benefit to the US. Labor unions are MORE of a detriment to the US economy and are in themselves guilty of taking a disproportionate amount of the nation's resources in comparison with their production.
WHAT YOU SUPPORT IS [[[THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM]]]
1 Sep 2022 1:03 pm
I didn't fail to take those social services into account. I in fact did the opposite and clearly identified the existence of our socialist entitlement system is the problem. Non-tax paying immigrants (and illegals) should be precluded from enjoying any form of entitlement. I specifically identified the issue concerning the border crisis is the fact that the vast majority are coming here because they've been told by Soros and the cartels if they cross the border the US government will provide them with free money for life and they will live like kings. I know this first hand from speaking directly with many of them. They make the equivalent of $1/day in their homeland and are told they will receive in excess of $20,000/year in the US for free. Free housing, free food, you name it. And for the most part they are correct. We have largely become a socialist nation. We all know $20,000/year in the US isn't a king's ransom. But to them it seems like they will live like Madonna. Even still it is a step up from their present standard of living.Zeets2 » 01 Sep 2022, 12:45 pm » wrote: ↑ What you fail to take into account is the cost of the social services that illegals ALL require, which are not nearly covered by their low-wage "contributions" as you see them. When millions of illegals flood the country as they have over the past 18 months, who pays for their health care? Who pays to educate their children? Do they not have a need for policemen,
(Continued...)
1 Sep 2022 1:11 pm
My solution would be to first get complete physical control of the border. Not just a border wall, but elevated security cameras and C^3 (i.e. Command Control and Communication). Installation of Pain Beam Systems to deter any attempts to circumvent the border security. This is something we were looking into in the not too distant past (look up pain beam). Remain in Mexico policy. Seismic detectors to prevent tunneling. Reduction in the level of LEGAL immigration to the extent the Dept of State can exhibit the ability to monitor and track each and every legal visa holder's whereabouts (by whatever means the DOS can devise) in the event they attempt to overstay their visas. For instance start off with only 1000 immigrants and see if the State Dept can track every one of them and deport any who attempt to overstay their visa. If they are successful increase it to 10,000 until you determine the State Dept incapable of securing infiltrators.
1 Sep 2022 1:24 pm
Pain beams function on the principle of constructive interference of waves. Where two separate electromagnetic microwave beams cross they will exhibit a typical interference pattern. At some points the beams combine at their peaks as do the harmonics. These harmonics are at a frequency which is tuned to the optimum frequency of typical water molecules under ambient conditions. Long story short, by focusing two beams at a particular location the water molecules in the targets skin very quickly reach the boiling point. The small amount of water in the skin isn't enough to do ANY harm to the target. It merely briefly boils the moisture in the skin and makes the target feel like they've suddenly been dipped in boiling water. Very painful but not harmful. No one who it's been tested on has been able to remain inside the interference pattern. Most run and scream as fast as they can get anywhere but there. The pain is quite severe but harmless and brief.
1 Sep 2022 1:57 pm
There are laws on the books now... Biden is NOT enforcing those laws.LibDave » 01 Sep 2022, 11:37 am » wrote: ↑ It might surprise you to know I wholeheartedly agree. We should not be allowing illegal immigration. We must be a nation of laws and we must control who we allow to immigrate to the US. What is currently transpiring on our borders is a catastrophe. But if we are to get to a point of resolution it is important to correctly identify what the restrictions on immigration should be based upon and what it is about immigration which is a detriment and what is a benefit.
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