Liberal Forum

ScottMon » 25 Sep 2022, 12:10 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Sep 2022, 12:10 pm

They are more likely to be WRONGLY convicted.  Project Innocence proved that.

Really?  Are you sure it's not a matter of Project Innocence only looking into the convictions of blacks (or a disproportionate percentage)?
 

ConsRule » 26 Sep 2022, 1:43 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 1:43 pm

Really?  Are you sure it's not a matter of Project Innocence only looking into the convictions of blacks (or a disproportionate percentage)?

I have no proof either way.  Regardless, They did prove that the justice system is biased against the poor and black folks. 
 

DeplorablePatriot » 24 Sep 2022, 1:11 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Sep 2022, 1:11 pm

Completely feigned but transparent oblivion to the absolute truth that Black and Browns are the worst offenders of violent behavior and murder.
You need not continue. I've made my point. But if you enjoy being the town fool, go for it. You are so adept at it.
 

There's obviously nothing she likes better than being the town fool!
viewtopic.php?p=2134324#p2134324
 

ScottMon » 26 Sep 2022, 2:13 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 2:13 pm

They did prove that the justice system is biased against the poor and black folks.
 

Really?  Are you sure they didn't prove some defense attorneys aren't worth a **** and/or forensic science hasn't advanced?

You love making blanket statements.

 

ConsRule » 26 Sep 2022, 2:22 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 2:22 pm

Really?  Are you sure they didn't prove some defense attorneys aren't worth a **** and/or forensic science hasn't advanced?

You love making blanket statements.

There’s racial bias in our police systems. Here’s the overwhelming proof. - Washington Post
Racial and Ethnic Disparities in the Criminal Justice System (ncsl.org)
Racial Disparities in Criminal Justice (americanbar.org)

 

ScottMon » 26 Sep 2022, 2:26 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 2:26 pm

There’s racial bias in our police systems. Here’s the overwhelming proof. - Washington Post
Racial and Ethnic Disparities in the Criminal Justice System (ncsl.org)
Racial Disparities in Criminal Justice (americanbar.org)

First link...an opinion piece, not worth reading.
Second link...uses terms like "suggesting bias" and "theorized" but offered no hard data.
Third link...it appears they combine a hodgepodge of data.  For example, they put these bullet points together from an NAACP analysis, while blacks make up 13.4% of population they make up;

• 22 percent of fatal police shootings,
• 47 percent of wrongful conviction exonerations, and
• 35 percent of individuals executed by the death penalty.

But they don't dig into the percentages of how often someone refuses to cooperate with the police when stopped (broken down by race).  If you resist, you're more likely to be shot.

They note blacks make up less that half of the wrongful conviction exonerations (which shoots down one of you earlier points).

They mention blacks make up 35% of executions, but the FBI has study after study showing blacks commit a disproportionate percentage of murders.  Here is some free advice;  Don't want to be executed?  Don't commit murder!

All that said, is there bias in the system?  Of course, because the system relies on humans and humans are biased. 
 

ConsRule » 26 Sep 2022, 3:19 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 3:19 pm

First link...an opinion piece, not worth reading.
Second link...uses terms like "suggesting bias" and "theorized" but offered no hard data.
Third link...it appears they combine a hodgepodge of data.  For example, they put these bullet points together from an NAACP analysis, while blacks make up 13.4% of population they make up;

• 22 percent of fatal police shootings,
• 47 percent of wrongful conviction exonerations, and
• 35 percent of individuals executed by the death penalty.

But they don't dig into the percentages of how often someone refuses to cooperate with the police when stopped (broken down by race).  If you resist, you're more likely to be shot.

They note blacks make up less that half of the wrongful conviction exonerations (which shoots down one of you earlier points).

They mention blacks make up 35% of executions, but the FBI has study after study showing blacks commit a disproportionate percentage of murders.  Here is some free advice;  Don't want to be executed?  Don't commit murder!

All that said, is there bias in the system?  Of course, because the system relies on humans and humans are biased.

So the numbers aren't enough to demonstrate a major flaw against colored folks?
 

ScottMon » 26 Sep 2022, 8:05 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 8:05 pm

So the numbers aren't enough to demonstrate a major flaw against colored folks?

it is not the fault of white people that black people commit all the crime in this country.

ScottMon » 26 Sep 2022, 8:05 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 8:05 pm

So the numbers aren't enough to demonstrate a major flaw against colored folks?

Not completely, no.  You need to dig into the numbers.  Remember, figures never lie...but liars figure.
 

ConsRule » 27 Sep 2022, 6:27 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 6:27 am

Not completely, no.  You need to dig into the numbers.  Remember, figures never lie...but liars figure.

People have been digging into the numbers for decades.  It's well established that the court system is biased against the poor and black.  
 

FOS » 26 Sep 2022, 9:35 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Sep 2022, 9:35 pm

it is not the fault of white people that black people commit all the crime in this country.

If your goal is to feel morally superior, Remember that the overwhelming majority of convicts are men like us.
 

ScottMon » 27 Sep 2022, 7:40 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 7:40 am

People have been digging into the numbers for decades.  It's well established that the court system is biased against the poor and black.

I have said, even in this thread, there is bias in the system.  There is bias in every system because systems rely on humans and all humans are bias.

However, I disagree that people have been digging into the numbers for decades.  People have been tracking the numbers for decades...not digging into them.  For example, one of the stats from a link you posted stated blacks make up 22% of fatal police shootings while only making up 13.4% of the population.  On the face, that sounds disproportionate and suggest a bias.  However, has anyone examined the results of the investigations and/or video footage of stops (of all kinds) that ended up escalating in any way?  Blacks may make up 98% of all incidents where the person stopped refused to cooperate, became confrontational or resisted (I just made up at percentage as an extreme example).  Even if they make up only 50% of escalations, then making up 22% of fatal shootings suggest the opposite of a bias against them.  That is what I mean by digging into the numbers.  If those studies exist, nobody who believes there is a bias has ever produced the data...and the burden is on them to prove the bias (as best a bias can be proven).
 

ConsRule » 27 Sep 2022, 8:27 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 8:27 am

I have said, even in this thread, there is bias in the system.  There is bias in every system because systems rely on humans and all humans are bias.

However, I disagree that people have been digging into the numbers for decades.  People have been tracking the numbers for decades...not digging into them.  For example, one of the stats from a link you posted stated blacks make up 22% of fatal police shootings while only making up 13.4% of the population.  On the face, that sounds disproportionate and suggest a bias.  However, has anyone examined the results of the investigations and/or video footage of stops (of all kinds) that ended up escalating in any way?  Blacks may make up 98% of all incidents where the person stopped refused to cooperate, became confrontational or resisted (I just made up at percentage as an extreme example).  Even if they make up only 50% of escalations, then making up 22% of fatal shootings suggest the opposite of a bias against them.  That is what I mean by digging into the numbers.  If those studies exist, nobody who believes there is a bias has ever produced the data...and the burden is on them to prove the bias (as best a bias can be proven).

So your argument is that there could be unrevealed details that could change the context.  I don't think that's realistic.
 

ScottMon » 27 Sep 2022, 8:41 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 8:41 am

So your argument is that there could be unrevealed details that could change the context.  I don't think that's realistic.

You are free to think whatever the **** you want to think. But keep in mind, digging into the details like that may provide more proof to the argument.  Is it a case of people being lazy, or people not wanting to know the details?

 

ConsRule » 27 Sep 2022, 8:46 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 8:46 am

You are free to think whatever the **** you want to think. But keep in mind, digging into the details like that may provide more proof to the argument.  Is it a case of people being lazy, or people not wanting to know the details?

Pretty sure that any more details revealed will be aligned with the details already revealed over the numbers studied since the 70s.  
 

ScottMon » 27 Sep 2022, 8:59 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 8:59 am

Pretty sure that any more details revealed will be aligned with the details already revealed over the numbers studied since the 70s.

But that's just your opinion...or a guess.  Nothing to support that position. 

ScottMon » 27 Sep 2022, 8:59 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 8:59 am

Pretty sure that any more details revealed will be aligned with the details already revealed over the numbers studied since the 70s.

The only real question is whether or not self-avowed libs like yourself believe that the programs Democrats have introduced into their cities (no bail laws, liberal prosecutors, defunding police, no stop and frisk law, etc.), are just, and you share them as well, despite seeing how crime has skyrocketed in every one of those Democrat-run cities.

If you support the Democrats who put them in place, just let us know if you're pleased with the results of doing so.
 

Zeets2 » 27 Sep 2022, 10:01 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 10:01 am

The only real question is whether or not self-avowed libs like yourself believe that the programs Democrats have introduced into their cities (no bail laws, liberal prosecutors, defunding police, no stop and frisk law, etc.), are just, and you share them as well, despite seeing how crime has skyrocketed in every one of those Democrat-run cities.

If you support the Democrats who put them in place, just let us know if you're pleased with the results of doing so.

How quickly you forget your own history.  A lot of left wing laws were written up to compensate for the decades of Jim Crow laws conservatives pushed on our nation.  Affirmative Action wasn't the best idea but at least it don't stop people from voting.
 

ScottMon » 27 Sep 2022, 10:15 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 10:15 am

How quickly you forget your own history.  A lot of left wing laws were written up to compensate for the decades of Jim Crow laws conservatives pushed on our nation.  Affirmative Action wasn't the best idea but at least it don't stop people from voting.

Sounds like you've got no problem with the current level of crime, believing that it's justified because of some unfair laws that "conservatives pushed" on the country, huh?

Care to describe which of those laws you're referring to?  And exactly which are those laws that conservatives wrote that stopped people from voting? 
 

Zeets2 » 27 Sep 2022, 10:01 am » wrote: ↑

27 Sep 2022, 10:01 am

The only real question is whether or not self-avowed libs like yourself believe that the programs Democrats have introduced into their cities (no bail laws, liberal prosecutors, defunding police, no stop and frisk law, etc.), are just, and you share them as well, despite seeing how crime has skyrocketed in every one of those Democrat-run cities.

If you support the Democrats who put them in place, just let us know if you're pleased with the results of doing so.

no, the question in the OP that you and Scott are dodging is whether diversity causes higher crime rates in American cities.

Yes or no?