Liberal Forum

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 5:45 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 5:45 am

We actually have quite a bit more manufacturing in this country than many would believe.  Look at the boat-building industry for one - tons of small manufacturers making boats and boating equipment here in the US.

not enough. sorry. if we had to fight ww2 again, we would lose. badly. simply not enough manufacturing (or indeed innovation) to fight a war like that.
 

FOS » 10 Oct 2022, 5:46 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 5:46 am

not enough. sorry. if we had to fight ww2 again, we would lose. badly. simply not enough manufacturing (or indeed innovation) to fight a war like that.

I stay away from broad, speculative predictions like that.  WWII is over and will never happen again.  Other wars, perhaps.  And, who knows what America will be when they do happen. 

I used the boat building industry as just an example.  Carpets, textiles, electronics, metal fabrication, plastics - we still have many manufactures who make these things.  They tend to be lots of decentralized, mid to small sized companies, not huge Chinese sized mega-manufacturers. 
 
 

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 5:53 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 5:53 am

I stay away from broad, speculative predictions like that.  WWII is over and will never happen again.  Other wars, perhaps.  And, who knows what America will be when they do happen. 

I used the boat building industry as just an example.  Carpets, textiles, electronics, metal fabrication, plastics - we still have many manufactures who make these things.

and if you work for any of those industries, you are a sucker. THe way to really make money in this country is by just having money and charging interest or rent or whatever.

FOS » 10 Oct 2022, 5:55 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 5:55 am

and if you work for any of those industries, you are a sucker. THe way to really make money in this country is by just having money and charging interest or rent or whatever.

This is a simplistic view of how to create wealth.  Just owning property and renting it out does not create wealth.  In fact, it can just as easily cause a person to go bankrupt.

Sure, if you have cash, you can purchase an existing, leased up property with no debt service, which throws off gross revenue.  But, that doesn't make it a fruitful investment.  You've advanced millions of dollars to buy a stream of income.  On top of that, you paid transaction costs.  In time, you are banking on the ability to raise rents and keep it occupied, otherwise, the investment is actually a bust. If invested well, in time, the investment will return better cash flow than when you purchased it, and in doing so, the value of the asset will increase.

What you say is "the way to make money in this country" today was the way to lose your *** in this country from 2004-2012.  Time cures most bad investments, so long as you have the staying power.  More recently, anyone who owned lots of real estate during Covid, when governments were saying "F-U" to evictions, knows what I'm talking about.
 
 
 

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 6:06 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 6:06 am

This is a simplistic view of how to create wealth.  Just owning property and renting it out does not create wealth.  In fact, it can just as easily cause a person to go bankrupt.

Sure, if you have cash, you can purchase an existing, leased up property with no debt service, which throws off gross revenue.  But, that doesn't make it a fruitful investment.  You've advanced millions of dollars to buy a stream of income.  On top of that, you paid transaction costs.  In time, you are banking on the ability to raise rents and keep it occupied, otherwise, the investment is actually a bust. If invested well, in time, the investment will return better cash flow than when you purchased it, and in doing so, the value of the asset will increase.

What you say is "the way to make money in this country" today was the way to lose your *** in this country from 2004-2012.  Time cures most bad investments, so long as you have the staying power.  More recently, anyone who owned lots of real estate during Covid, when governments were saying "F-U" to evictions, knows what I'm talking about.

dude...even if you couldnt evict someone, the government gave landlords the money. (you are talking to a landlord, remember?). our economy is built around protecting the rent seekers because they are also the donor class.

risk exists everywhere. you could have a great job as some highly skilled laborer and just be laid off because the company needed more black employees. nothing is unique about rent seeking in that respect. you just have a LOT more security by producing nothing.
 

FOS » 10 Oct 2022, 5:45 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 5:45 am

it is a huge error to assume that criticism of capitalism only come from jealous poor people. lol. a HUGE error. Especially since actually the biggest pushback against capitalism literally comes from the billionaire class....

great misdirection. still just simple intellectual misdirection. Jealousy is emotional same as sibling rivalries between siblings of the same parents or people sharing common ideology seeking approval from those in charge and those that have to compromise with reality every second of a day until extinct.

Those in the know, promise better days ahead while anyone understanding life as lived in real time understand the devil in the details legalizing doubt ancestrally forward when genetically ancestrally separated here now.

Honesty is a sole possession, honestly believing life is more than consenting adults pretending seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, seasons, years, decades, generations, centuries relative time is more than time spent adapting to the moment here.

What is the source of all corruption within one species being absolutely corrupted throughout history of controlling outcomes today each ancestor alive. Not just economic theory. Original sin uncorrected lasts until extinction of the corrupted.

Read between the lines of history and it is obvious how it is always happening self inflicted by each social order never accepting life for all it is capable of doing here now. Simply evolving one ancestor at a time combined to total population present per species categorized by plant or animal naturally occupying the moment, predator or prey nature of ancestral progression of each reproduction present, gender of offspring capable of adding another generation of great great grandchildren left evolving forward now.

Capitalism rule of 72 came from something naturally occurring then used against those naturally alive.

SJConspirator » 09 Oct 2022, 4:26 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2022, 4:26 pm

I am not offering solutions, my point is that blind worship of capitalism is folly.  

Blind worship of anything else is possible allows corruption to thrive when people constantly agree to disagree on how biology actually sustains eternal separation of ancestors occupying time adapting to the moment here specifically spaced apart as conceived to replace.

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 5:32 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 5:32 am

Not all outsourcing is bad.  I have no problem outsourcing mercury refining and lead recycling to the Chinese.  But, I also champion  encouraging more manufacturing in the US.

Renting real estate can be more work than many give credit for.  Try owning some small-bay warehouses/flex space.  The tenants give you grief over signing leases.  Then, when their lease runs out and they don't want to sign up for another 3 years and instead opt to go month-to-month.  Finally, they will send you a parting email after you sold the warehouses bitching about how much the new owner is raising their rent and how they got screwed for not signing the lease you offered to them.  In any event, someone has to create and maintain the places where people conduct their business.  A lot actually goes into this, unless you just have the cash to buy existing, leased up properties (which come with their own problems).

Liar!  You champion more manufacturing in the US as long as workers have little say and little leeway in the company. 

It’s why you hate unions. 


 

FOS » 10 Oct 2022, 5:46 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 5:46 am

not enough. sorry. if we had to fight ww2 again, we would lose. badly. simply not enough manufacturing (or indeed innovation) to fight a war like that.
 

How did that get put into current situation over the last 75 years? Top down management working society inside out making everyone voting elect from a compromising outside in perception.

FOS » 10 Oct 2022, 6:29 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 6:29 am

dude...even if you couldnt evict someone, the government gave landlords the money. (you are talking to a landlord, remember?).

Maybe for residential landlords 2 years after Covid, but there was no commercial relief at the time shutdowns were actually occurring.  I've been a landlord too and looked into this when shutdowns were in effect.  I had to provide some form of rent relief nearly all of my commercial tenants, only some of which I was able to recoup later on.  

risk exists everywhere. you could have a great job as some highly skilled laborer and just be laid off because the company needed more black employees. nothing is unique about rent seeking in that respect.

I agree with much of what you've said here.  I do not agree that land/building owners produce nothing.  When it comes to land owners, I see it this way:

• Construction.  someone had to buy the land and build the building on that land, designed in a way where others would find it useful to use
• Finance.  someone had to finance the acquisition/construction - using their own money which could be deployed elsewhere, or bank money
• Management.   someone has to manage the property to make sure it is up to code, operational for tenants and in a condition that it appreciates over time
• Risk - that's right, I don't discount this at all - renters don't have what it takes to construct and pay for their own facility
• Investment savvy - someone has to be educated and sophisticated enough to know when/how to buy and when/how to sell

You may take these things for granted, and if you've been doing this for some time that is understandable. However, there really are not a lot of people who can put it all together to do this successfully.  Especially, if you don't have millions of dollars laying around to invest, and you need to develop a business plan to get financing. 
 
 
 

Pastafarian » 10 Oct 2022, 7:12 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 7:12 am

Liar!  You champion more manufacturing in the US as long as workers have little say and little leeway in the company. 

It’s why you hate unions.

That's up to workers and their financial capability.  If they want to have a say as to what happens in a company, then buy stock attend the shareholders' meetings and vote. Or, choose where you want to work.  I am pro-worker and the more job choices we have in the United States, the more opportunity there is for workers to pick and choose what they want to do.
 

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 8:00 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 8:00 am

That's up to workers and their financial capability.  If they want to have a say as to what happens in a company, then buy stock attend the shareholders' meetings and vote. Or, choose where you want to work.  I am pro-worker and the more job choices we have in the United States, the more opportunity there is for workers to pick and choose what they want to do.

....people who don't understand the origin and nature of even one dollar should really really really STFU about the illion dollar economy!... wordle...         

peepee » 10 Oct 2022, 8:04 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 8:04 am

....people who don't HAVE ANY ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS should really really really STFU about the  economy!... wordle...       

 

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 4:39 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 4:39 am

Sucks for you that you could never figure out how to prosper in a capitalist country.  Winners rejoice, losers cry and blame others for their failures.

My condolences to you as well for not finding the happiness that would preclude praying for nuclear war daily.

Any comment on thread Topic? 

SJConspirator » 10 Oct 2022, 8:16 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 8:16 am

My condolences to you as well for not finding the happiness that would preclude praying for nuclear war daily.

Any comment on thread Topic?

Yeah.  I love capitalism and freedom.  Living my best life, bro!!!  
 

FOS » 09 Oct 2022, 3:22 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Oct 2022, 3:22 pm

5) creative destruction. capitalism undermines tradition, nation, and even purpose itself by imposing profit margin as all that matters.

Please, CC..

I was queasy enough wading through the OP's predictable juvenalia, and now you gotta go full dilettante..

That's not what creative destruction means.
 

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 7:50 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 7:50 am

Maybe for way:

• Construction.  someone had to buy the land and build the building on that land, designed in a way where others would find it useful to use
• Finance.  someone had to finance the acquisition/construction - using their own money which could be deployed elsewhere, or bank money
• Management.   someone has to manage the property to make sure it is up to code, operational for tenants and in a condition that it appreciates over time
• Risk - that's right, I don't discount this at all - renters don't have what it takes to construct and pay for their own facility
• Investment savvy - someone has to be educated and sophisticated enough to know when/how to buy and when/how to sell

You may take these things for granted, and if you've been doing this for some time that is understandable. However, there really are not a lot of 

During the westward expansion of the early US, the government policy was to allow settlers to find a piece of land, stake a claim, build on it, and that was their legally recognized homestead.

How did they possibly live on that land without a landlord to do all the bullet points in your post for Them?  Did they even survive?

Skans » 10 Oct 2022, 8:20 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 8:20 am

Yeah.  I love capitalism and freedom.  Living my best life, bro!!!

Worshipping your landlord lol

Trolls like Skans and BV find the 4 points so devastating they cannot even respond to them

SJConspirator » 10 Oct 2022, 8:22 am » wrote: ↑

10 Oct 2022, 8:22 am

During the westward expansion of the early US, the government policy was to allow settlers to find a piece of land, stake a claim, build on it, and that was their legally recognized homestead.

How did they possibly live on that land without a landlord to do all the bullet points in your post for Them?  Did they even survive?
 

Most homesteaders didn't survive, primarily because the land they staked off was crappy land or didn't have adequate access to water, or didn't have sufficient resources to develop the land into arable land. The ones who died trying would have been better off as serfs to landlords who had the means to develop their land into fertile, lush, moistened land.