Liberal Forum

Three things are essential to create the strongest bonds possible among humans

1.  Shared history

anybody who says “they come from all walks of life and form a community” is full of ****.  People who come from different backgrounds do NOT form a community.  They form a **** of competing agendas.

2.  Shared destiny

You know who formed a strong sense of emotional bonding really **** fast?  The people aboard the Titanic as it sank.  They knew they were sharing their last moments together and they would suffer the same icy death.  Guaranteed there were strangers aboard that boat who just started **** each other with real passion out of nowhere.

3.  Shared suffering

why does a military unit become a band of brothers?  Because they go through hell together.  They have shared the pains of training, the horrors of war, and the grief of burying the fallen.

bottom line.. you can take a hodgepodge diverse group of mongrels, throw them in a “country” together with no shared history between the individuals, no common identity, no shared destiny or suffering, and you just have a bunch of assholes trying to rip each other off and unable to cooperate.  

that’s what we are.  **** the USA and **** diversity
 
 

i live in usa. but do not consider myself as belonging to that nation. i have nothing in common with the government; nor the political parties. no way could i bond with usa, or share its destiny. i would not join in a revolution against a nation i am not part of. back to the hot tub where i will hump the squaws and drink of the fine wine.

SJConspirator » 30 Nov 2022, 2:10 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 2:10 am

Three things are essential to create the strongest bonds possible among humans

1.  Shared history

anybody who says “they come from all walks of life and form a community” is full of ****.  People who come from different backgrounds do NOT form a community.  They form a **** of competing agendas.

2.  Shared destiny

You know who formed a strong sense of emotional bonding really **** fast?  The people aboard the Titanic as it sank.  They knew they were sharing their last moments together and they would suffer the same icy death.  Guaranteed there were strangers aboard that boat who just started **** each other with real passion out of nowhere.

3.  Shared suffering

why does a military unit become a band of brothers?  Because they go through hell together.  They have shared the pains of training, the horrors of war, and the grief of burying the fallen.

bottom line.. you can take a hodgepodge diverse group of mongrels, throw them in a “country” together with no shared history between the individuals, no common identity, no shared destiny or suffering, and you just have a bunch of assholes trying to rip each other off and unable to cooperate.  

that’s what we are.  **** the USA and **** diversity

Men with guns and other lethal weapons keeping other people from entering a defined area of land they claim is theirs. That is all you need to make and sustain a nation. 
 

Skans » 30 Nov 2022, 10:03 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 10:03 am

Men with guns and other lethal weapons keeping other people from entering a defined area of land they claim is theirs. That is all you need to make and sustain a nation.

Natio = Latin for birth.

A nation is for those BORN on that land

what your describing is a concentration camp more so than a nation

SJConspirator » 30 Nov 2022, 10:05 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 10:05 am

Natio = Latin for birth.

A nation is for those BORN on that land

what your describing is a concentration camp more so than a nation

A concentration camp is to keep people in, not out. 

Latin is a dead language, one which was killed off a long long time ago.  While sketchy remnants of the long-dead language remain, like mutated DNA, in many of the world's languages, it is meaningless in terms of the original Latin language.

The bottom line is that if I have enough armed men to say "THIS IS A NATION", and no other group of people is able to take it away from them or prove it isn't, then it's a Nation.

The World is just anarchy 95% in aequilibrium. (another damn Latin word)
 

And if people share a long enough history, they will genetically adapt to it. For example Europeans developed lactose tolerance because they relied a great deal on dairy. And that single reality about your way of life will naturally involve the development of some other talents and cultural aspects...like say bullfighting. Because biology and genetics are fluid and change based on your habitat.

So people who share a common way of life and a similar sort of society will.. over a sufficiently long amount of time...be identifiable as members of the same nation by their genetics. And a common ancestry will be very important to maintaining that culture.

omh » 30 Nov 2022, 10:20 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 10:20 am

Might(tyranny) makes right. but rites don't save might(doubt), just enable it until extinction happens.

The Human Race will live on forever in the minds of men.
 

Skans » 30 Nov 2022, 10:17 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 10:17 am

A concentration camp is to keep people in, not out. 

Latin is a dead language, one which was killed off a long long time ago.  While sketchy remnants of the long-dead language remain, like mutated DNA, in many of the world's languages, it is meaningless in terms of the original Latin language.

The bottom line is that if I have enough armed men to say "THIS IS A NATION", and no other group of people is able to take it away from them or prove it isn't, then it's a Nation.

The World is just anarchy 95% in aequilibrium. (another damn Latin word)

if I have armed men surrounding a Nike sweatshop insisting it's a nation, that's a nation to you, but to everyone else it's a Nike sweat shop in Sri Lanka

SJConspirator » 30 Nov 2022, 11:12 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 11:12 am

if I have armed men surrounding a Nike sweatshop insisting it's a nation, that's a nation to you, but to everyone else it's a Nike sweat shop in Sri Lanka

I don't care what "everyone else" thinks.  It would be a sovereign nation for as long as it can maintain the equilibrium between it and the surrounding nation(s).

I suppose some descendants of the Asians that once inhabited the Americas before the Spaniards and other Europeans took it look upon the United States as nothing more than a Nike Sweat Shop as well.  Well, they happen to be wrong.  Europeans took it from them, and well that's just the way anarchy works.  But wait, hybridized Amerindian Spaniards are now taking large swaths of the US, and nobody is stopping them.  So, there's that too.
 
 

Skans » 30 Nov 2022, 10:17 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 10:17 am

A concentration camp is to keep people in, not out. 

Latin is a dead language, one which was killed off a long long time ago.  While sketchy remnants of the long-dead language remain, like mutated DNA, in many of the world's languages, it is meaningless in terms of the original Latin language.

The bottom line is that if I have enough armed men to say "THIS IS A NATION", and no other group of people is able to take it away from them or prove it isn't, then it's a Nation.

The World is just anarchy 95% in aequilibrium. (another damn Latin word)

YOU are describing a concentration camp - not a nation.
Latin lives on through all of its many children.
The bottom line is that you know jack **** about what makes a nation.
The world is chock full of midwits. 

Cannonpointer » 30 Nov 2022, 12:23 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 12:23 pm

YOU are describing a concentration camp - not a nation.
Latin lives on through all of its many children.
The bottom line is that you know jack **** about what makes a nation.
The world is chock full of midwits.

I know what makes a nation - violence makes a nation.  As to what sustains a nation, that may be something quite different.
 

Skans » 30 Nov 2022, 12:25 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 12:25 pm

I know what makes a nation - violence makes a nation.  As to what sustains a nation, that may be something quite different.

dude...people have to like....eat. there's quote a bit of difference between say...a street gang and the roman empire. 

the capacity for violence may be a necessary part of nation building...but it doesn't mean every murderer is building a nation, and it isn't all there is to it.

FOS » 30 Nov 2022, 1:08 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 1:08 pm

dude...people have to like....eat. there's quote a bit of difference between say...a street gang and the roman empire. 

the capacity for violence may be a necessary part of nation building...but it doesn't mean every murderer is building a nation, and it isn't all there is to it.

Violence is a key element in making and sustaining a nation.  I know of no nation that ever existed without violence and bloodshed. Or, if one did exist, it was probably for a very short time and lost to history. 

I would agree that violence and war machines are not the only thing that sustains a nation.  Far from it, I'm sure.  Also, if such were the case, I doubt I'd want to reside in that nation.
 

SJConspirator » 30 Nov 2022, 2:10 am » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 2:10 am

Three things are essential to create the strongest bonds possible among humans

1.  Shared history

anybody who says “they come from all walks of life and form a community” is full of ****.  People who come from different backgrounds do NOT form a community.  They form a **** of competing agendas.

2.  Shared destiny

You know who formed a strong sense of emotional bonding really **** fast?  The people aboard the Titanic as it sank.  They knew they were sharing their last moments together and they would suffer the same icy death.  Guaranteed there were strangers aboard that boat who just started **** each other with real passion out of nowhere.

3.  Shared suffering

why does a military unit become a band of brothers?  Because they go through hell together.  They have shared the pains of training, the horrors of war, and the grief of burying the fallen.

bottom line.. you can take a hodgepodge diverse group of mongrels, throw them in a “country” together with no shared history between the individuals, no common identity, no shared destiny or suffering, and you just have a bunch of assholes trying to rip each other off and unable to cooperate.  

that’s what we are.  **** the USA and **** diversity

What would an ideal nation be to you?

omh » 30 Nov 2022, 3:24 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 3:24 pm

Think about what you asked, really?

What kind of species are you in? self destructive kind. all done by choices made and promises kept saving the right to ignore natural time evolving by the numbers currently alive.

I did think about what I asked. I know my species. I wasn't asking what an ideal nation would like for dogs or any other animal species. 

I didn't think that I would need to explain that I was referring to humans. 

Vegas » 30 Nov 2022, 3:13 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 3:13 pm

What would an ideal nation be to you?

why would you assume that there can even exist the concept of an 'ideal nation'?

A nation is simply defined by its people. 

Which of better...the french or the scottish nation?

 

FOS » 30 Nov 2022, 3:29 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 3:29 pm

why would you assume that there can even exist the concept of an 'ideal nation'?

A nation is simply defined by its people. 

Which of better...the french or the scottish nation?

I am not interested in what an ideal nation would like, generally speaking, I am interested in what SJ thinks an ideal nation would like to him. 

Vegas » 30 Nov 2022, 3:32 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 3:32 pm

I am not interested in what an ideal nation would like, generally speaking, I am interested in what SJ thinks an ideal nation would like to him.

well his own description of what a nation actually is suggests that it is not a matter of choice. 

You are probably trying to ask what the ideal form of government is or something? That is much more a matter of choice

Vegas » 30 Nov 2022, 3:32 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 3:32 pm

I am not interested in what an ideal nation would like, generally speaking, I am interested in what SJ thinks an ideal nation would like to him.

Saudi Arabia, but without the Arabs.....as long as I am royalty. 
 

Vegas » 30 Nov 2022, 3:32 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2022, 3:32 pm

I am not interested in what an ideal nation would like, generally speaking, I am interested in what SJ thinks an ideal nation would like to him.

that is like choosing an ideal ice cream flavor.. I love many different kinds of ice cream.

I don’t think there is an ideal, but I can pick a few from history that I like.

ancient Sparta, Ancient Rome
modern Scandinavian countries, Sweden , Belgium, Denmark, Wales etc..
America circa 1955