Liberal Forum

I have seen WAY too many times liberals/lefties/normies conflate conservatism and fascism...or perhaps view fascism as a more 'extreme' form of conservatism. 

You are wrong. And no, I am not trying to trick you or spread propaganda. I am just telling the genuine truth. I am a person who would accept the label of fascist (meaning a particular political philosophy from the early to mid 20th century)...and people who would label themselves conservative would probably agree with all my points. 

In reality, fascism is actually more distinct from conservstism than communism is from liberalism. (And conservatives seem to love calling you guys communist...and i know they are wrong about thst)

Let's establish some differences. 

1) fascism is socialist and sydicalist. Yes, it really is. I am not lying. You may have heard some quote out there about fascism being 'corporatist'...well yes it is...but that doesn't mean corporations. A corporatist economy is a kind of market socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism ...which is basically about having very strong unions. In fact unions are so strong that they become similar to medieval guilds. You may have heard that 'dolf threw a bunch of union people in prison. Sure. But that is because a) these people tended to be loyal to the ussr thanks to bolshevik influence and b) he did not want PRIVATE unions...he wanted PUBLIC unions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front ...and contrary to what you have heard, none of this was a 'trick'. Fascist countries did in fact in practice have strong socialist economies and in fact they are the BEST examples in history of SUCCESSFUL socialist economies. Different fascist philosophers had different ideas of how to implement corporatism. Oswald mosely, for example, the British fascist, wanted to create a sort of electoral college whereby people would vote based on their OCCUPATION, rather than their region which is the modern way. The nazis (national socialists) had an interesting take on socialism whereby they wanted to eliminate the practice of making money simply from having money (e.g. banking, landlords, etc)...they wanted close to 100% of the income of citizens to come directly from a paycheck...and they wanted (and did a damn good job of getting) FULL employment. If there weren't enough private jobs for people, the state would find things for people to do (like build the autobahn etc). Anyway...fascism is supposed to be a sort of market socialism (although the state DOES step in when necessary and tell private business what to do) rather than a fully planned economy like communism is supposed to be. But IN PRACTICE it turned out that fascist countries had MORE nationalized ownership of industry than say...the Soviet Union....Italy being the highest at about 70% (compared to about 60% from the ussr)...probably because their trade was far more protectionist than communist countries. 

'Conservatives', on the other hand, tend to value free markets. Most will say they want regulated capitalism and some reduction in welfare programs. 'Conservstives' also tend to favor free trade and they really hate stuff like tariffs, while fascists are opposed to free trade and are fine with tariffs. 

Anyway...this is a very important difference between 'conservatives' and fascists. Economically speaking, fascism is much closer to communism than 'conservatism'...although it is also more successful at it in practice because it actually benefits workers rather than pretending to. 
 
 

2) jews. 

Conservatives tend to love jews. No really, they actually worship jews as the master race. Conservatives think the usa should exist to serve Israel and get excited about any war for Israel (Iraq, Syria, etc)

Fascists tend to dislike jews. This is not merely because jews tend to be gross people...it is also for economic reasons. Jews are the biggest rent seekers. People like rothschild, soris, Sam Backman fried etc. It is a fundamental aspect of jewish culture since monarchs used them as money lenders in order to bypass the Christian law against usury. 
 

3) relationship to government.

Conservatives tend to view government as a 'necessary evil' and they want as little government involvement in their personal lives as possible. They will contradict this, however, when it comes to serving jews. They will demand a large military in order to 'spread democracy' to any country that seems to have a lot of anti semites.

Fascists, on the other hand, tend to view a legitimate government as a thing of beauty and the origin of human purpose. That is how you serve your people....and serving your people is the meaning of life.

That observation bleeds into

4) religion. Conservatives tend to be Christian and they view the service of God as the meaning of their life.

Fascism is much more secular and tends to replace religion with nationalism. There have existed religious fascists, but they tend to like trying to alter their religion to be more nationalistic.
 
 

FOS » 07 Dec 2022, 4:51 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2022, 4:51 pm

Liberals, we need to discuss conservatism vs fascism.

No, we don't.  But if there's something we NEED to discuss it's that you need to go **** yourself.
 
Just as a point of information...fascists don't dislike Jews any more than any other non-Jews dislike Jews.  Fascists dislike communists.
 

5) authoritarianism/power

'Conservatives' tend to be afraid of siezing power. They have a philosophy that principles are more important than winning, nobody is above the law, and the best government governs the least (similar to point 3)

Fascist are not like this at all. They are perfectly fine with seizing power and destroying their enemies by whatever means happens to work. A fascist is not concerned with their leaders breaking the law, so long as it benefits the people that the leader represents.

I think that Communism was a Trojan horse for globalism.

The whole Communist manifesto was about a workers paradise, painting a rosy picture of how international communism could be so glorious for the proletariat. This was like a spoonful of sugar to make the ugly truth of it -globalism- easier to swallow.

If globalism was introduced naked, with no fancy marketing like “workers of the world unite!” It would be seen as the **** it is.. stripping power from nations and putting it in the hands of international corporations.

Conservatives love globalism, because the only virtue they see is greed. They would curbstomp every disabled orphan child for $50. There is literally no remaining value or virtue for modern conservatives besides sheer greed, that’s how thorough their brainwashing is.

Within the context of fascism, greed is a vice, not a virtue. The virtues of fascism are aesthetic beauty, cleanliness, righteousness, productive collectivism, family, purity and nobility. Those are values worth living and dying for.

The modern conservative, with no values besides greed, lives a shallow, bitter, angry life, paranoid, with no feeling of kinship to anything. It is pathetic and miserable

FOS » 07 Dec 2022, 4:51 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2022, 4:51 pm

I have seen WAY too many times liberals/lefties/normies conflate conservatism and fascism...or perhaps view fascism as a more 'extreme' form of conservatism. 

You are wrong. And no, I am not trying to trick you or spread propaganda. I am just telling the genuine truth. I am a person who would accept the label of fascist (meaning a particular political philosophy from the early to mid 20th century)...and people who would label themselves conservative would probably agree with all my points. 

In reality, fascism is avtually nore distinct from conservstism than communism is from liberalism. (And vonservatives seem to love calling you guys communist...and i know they are wrong about thst)

Let's establish some differences. 

1) fascism is socialist and sydicalist. Yes, it really is. I am not lying. You may have heard some quote out there about fascism being 'corporatist'...well yes it is...but that doesn't mean corporations. A corporatist economy is a kind of market socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism ...which is basically about having very strong unions. In fact unions are so strong that they become similar to medieval guilds. You may have heard that 'dolf thre a bunch of union people in prison. Sure. But that is because a) these people tended to be loyal to the ussr thanks to bolshevik influence and b) he did not want PRIVATE unions...he wanted PUBLIC unions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front ...and contrary to what you have heard, none of this was a 'trick'. Fascist countries did in fact in practice have strong socialist economiesand in fact they are the BEST examples in history of SUCCESSFUL socialist economies. Different fascist philosophers had different ideas of how to implement corporatism. Oswald mosely, for example, the British fascist, wanted to create a sort of electoral college whereby people would vote based on their OCCUPATION, rather than their region which is the modern way. The nazis (national socialists) had an interesting take on socialism whereby they wanted to eliminate the practice of making money simply from having money (e.g. banking, landlords, etc)...they wanted close to 100% of the income of citizens to come directly from a paycheck...and they wanted (and did a damn good job of getting) FULL employment. If there weren't enough private jobs for people, the state would find things for people to do (like build the autobahn etc). Anyway...fascism is supposed to be a sort of market socialism (although the state DOES step in when necessary and tell private business what to do) rather than a fully planned economy like communism is supposed to be. But IN PRACTICE it turned out that fascist countries had MORE nationalized ownership of industry than say...the Soviet Union....Italy being the highest at about 70% (compared to about 60% from the ussr)...probably because their trade was far more protectionist than communist countries. 

'Conservatives', on the other hand, tend to value free markets. Most will say they want regulated capitalism and some reduction in welfare programs. 'Conservstives' also tend to favor free trade and they really hate stuff like tariffs, while fascists are opposed to free trade and are fine with tariffs. 

Anyway...this is a very important difference between 'conservatives' and fascists. Economically speaking, fascism is much closer to communism than 'conservatism'...although it is also more successful at it in practice because it actually benefits workers rather than pretending to.

Do you have any thoughts on Franco?
 

FOS » 07 Dec 2022, 5:08 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2022, 5:08 pm

5) authoritarianism/power

'Conservatives' tend to be afraid of siezing power. They have a philosophy that principles are more important than winning, nobody is above the law, and the best government governs the least (similar to point 3)

Fascist are not like this at all. They are perfectly fine with seizing power and destroying their enemies by whatever means happens to work. A fascist is not concerned with their leaders breaking the law, so long as it benefits the people that the leader represents.

The generations that took this land for their progeny - i.e., killed the forest *** - were fascist, in that regard.
 

SJConspirator » 08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am

I think that Communism was a Trojan horse for globalism.

The whole Communist manifesto was about a workers paradise, painting a rosy picture of how international communism could be so glorious for the proletariat. This was like a spoonful of sugar to make the ugly truth of it -globalism- easier to swallow.

If globalism was introduced naked, with no fancy marketing like “workers of the world unite!” It would be seen as the **** it is.. stripping power from nations and putting it in the hands of international corporations.

I tend take a different view of communism's early advocates. I genuinely believe they were mentally ill - utterly deranged. They simply had zero concept of human nature, and they devised a system for soulless robots.

SJConspirator » 08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am

Conservatives love globalism, because the only virtue they see is greed. They would curbstomp every disabled orphan child for $50. There is literally no remaining value or virtue for modern conservatives besides sheer greed, that’s how thorough their brainwashing is.

Again, I take a different view of conservatism. I do not believe they are greedy at all. I believe they are deranged - trapped in a tautology which promises them that if they can only utterly destroy any and all government programs beyond killing strangers and booking them Dano, The Most High and Holy Invisible Hand of the Market will magically and infallibly give every person his Proper Reward, and all will be right with the world.

SJConspirator » 08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am

Within the context of fascism, greed is a vice, not a virtue. The virtues of fascism are aesthetic beauty, cleanliness, righteousness, productive collectivism, family, purity and nobility. Those are values worth living and dying for.

The modern conservative, with no values besides greed, lives a shallow, bitter, angry life, paranoid, with no feeling of kinship to anything. It is pathetic and miserable

This I generally agree with, except for the greed part. They prize SUCCESS, because within their tautology, it proves Right Action and the Favor of the Invisible Hand. Because they lack any deeper-than-surface principles, concepts, or education, they only have a single yardstick for measuring $ucce$$. It is not greed but derangement which makes them dangerous to puppies and soccer moms.

And not to step past another issue, which is the compulsive lunging after jew cock. They just cannot get enough.
 
 

democrat~~~republican....liberals~~~conservatism....black~~~white.... usa minds are controlled by duality. good~~~bad.... right~~~wrong.... no open minds. they tell you, you must judge. will some one pease continue

Cannonpointer » 08 Dec 2022, 1:43 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 1:43 am

Do you have any thoughts on Franco?

I mean...I would say he counts as fascist but he was rather milquetoast. But I certainly appreciate how he stayed honorable and protected Leon de grelle after the war. The real Spanish fascist was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9 ... _de_Rivera but alas he was assasinated.
 

FOS » 07 Dec 2022, 4:51 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2022, 4:51 pm

I have seen WAY too many times liberals/lefties/normies conflate conservatism and fascism...or perhaps view fascism as a more 'extreme' form of conservatism. 

You are wrong. And no, I am not trying to trick you or spread propaganda. I am just telling the genuine truth. I am a person who would accept the label of fascist (meaning a particular political philosophy from the early to mid 20th century)...and people who would label themselves conservative would probably agree with all my points. 

In reality, fascism is avtually nore distinct from conservstism than communism is from liberalism. (And vonservatives seem to love calling you guys communist...and i know they are wrong about thst)

Let's establish some differences. 

1) fascism is socialist and sydicalist. Yes, it really is. I am not lying. You may have heard some quote out there about fascism being 'corporatist'...well yes it is...but that doesn't mean corporations. A corporatist economy is a kind of market socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism ...which is basically about having very strong unions. In fact unions are so strong that they become similar to medieval guilds. You may have heard that 'dolf thre a bunch of union people in prison. Sure. But that is because a) these people tended to be loyal to the ussr thanks to bolshevik influence and b) he did not want PRIVATE unions...he wanted PUBLIC unions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front ...and contrary to what you have heard, none of this was a 'trick'. Fascist countries did in fact in practice have strong socialist economiesand in fact they are the BEST examples in history of SUCCESSFUL socialist economies. Different fascist philosophers had different ideas of how to implement corporatism. Oswald mosely, for example, the British fascist, wanted to create a sort of electoral college whereby people would vote based on their OCCUPATION, rather than their region which is the modern way. The nazis (national socialists) had an interesting take on socialism whereby they wanted to eliminate the practice of making money simply from having money (e.g. banking, landlords, etc)...they wanted close to 100% of the income of citizens to come directly from a paycheck...and they wanted (and did a damn good job of getting) FULL employment. If there weren't enough private jobs for people, the state would find things for people to do (like build the autobahn etc). Anyway...fascism is supposed to be a sort of market socialism (although the state DOES step in when necessary and tell private business what to do) rather than a fully planned economy like communism is supposed to be. But IN PRACTICE it turned out that fascist countries had MORE nationalized ownership of industry than say...the Soviet Union....Italy being the highest at about 70% (compared to about 60% from the ussr)...probably because their trade was far more protectionist than communist countries. 

'Conservatives', on the other hand, tend to value free markets. Most will say they want regulated capitalism and some reduction in welfare programs. 'Conservstives' also tend to favor free trade and they really hate stuff like tariffs, while fascists are opposed to free trade and are fine with tariffs. 

Anyway...this is a very important difference between 'conservatives' and fascists. Economically speaking, fascism is much closer to communism than 'conservatism'...although it is also more successful at it in practice because it actually benefits workers rather than pretending to. 

You are truly society's type cast character ignoring your own time ancestrally present hoping to escape being you performing as part of society's chosen people on a higher plane of evolving than most..

walkingstick » 08 Dec 2022, 2:37 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 2:37 am

democrat~~~republican....liberals~~~conservatism....black~~~white.... usa minds are controlled by duality. good~~~bad.... right~~~wrong.... no open minds. they tell you, you must judge. will some one pease continue

A brain navigates evolving in plain sight as one of a kind until society demands it minds rule of law or else be eliminated from the living.

SJConspirator » 08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 12:14 am

I think that Communism was a Trojan horse for globalism.

The whole Communist manifesto was about a workers paradise, painting a rosy picture of how international communism could be so glorious for the proletariat. This was like a spoonful of sugar to make the ugly truth of it -globalism- easier to swallow.

If globalism was introduced naked, with no fancy marketing like “workers of the world unite!” It would be seen as the **** it is.. stripping power from nations and putting it in the hands of international corporations.

Conservatives love globalism, because the only virtue they see is greed. They would curbstomp every disabled orphan child for $50. There is literally no remaining value or virtue for modern conservatives besides sheer greed, that’s how thorough their brainwashing is.

Within the context of fascism, greed is a vice, not a virtue. The virtues of fascism are aesthetic beauty, cleanliness, righteousness, productive collectivism, family, purity and nobility. Those are values worth living and dying for.

The modern conservative, with no values besides greed, lives a shallow, bitter, angry life, paranoid, with no feeling of kinship to anything. It is pathetic and miserable

I know for a fact that when the nsdap began to grow in popularity, most of their ranks came from the Communist party. 

It is easier to convert a communist to fascism than a conservative. 

That is also why it is such an effective political tool against communism. 

And of course i agree with you. If you fail to address internstional expoitation using financial domination, you will fail to do anything for your workers. 

The state has to aggressively seize power from monied oligarchs...and that is what fascists did. 

The communists like Lenin and Stalin mainly seized power from the middle class (like kulaks) and ignored their oligarchs

Concerning aesthetics...yeah it is no accident that one of the last great western composers was Strauss. Today everything is very trashy hip hop

fascist Spain also created some beautiful music. Have you heard this? https://youtu.be/Vy_veGvA6YY

Cannonpointer » 08 Dec 2022, 1:47 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 1:47 am

The generations that took this land for their progeny - i.e., killed the forest *** - were fascist, in that regard.

It is quite funny...

After I settled into a fascist mindset, I would often encounter leftists on the internet who are used to dealing with conservatives. And their main debate technique is just trying to hold conservatives to their own principles. 

So you get a lot of 'hey you have to respect my rights!' and i would respond 'no, actually i dont'. 

Or 'hey you cannot judge people by their skin color!' And I would say 'watch me'

or 'hey. .the state can force private social media companies to do provide a platform for bad people!' And I would respond 'well they can give the ceos of the companies an option to either do that or surrender their life. That is quite possible.'

And then liberals have no idea what to do. It is usually wasy for a liberal to defeat conservatives in any debate by simply using their talent for hypocrisy. But fascists are quite immune to liberal hypocrisy because they simply do not care about the various principles that liberals will tactically appeal to in bad faith. The only real principle the fascist will be dogmatic about is the survival and thriving of his people. 

Conservatism isn't fascism anymore than liberalism is communism. The confusion about this probably comes from the artificial left/right division of
political philosophy that began with the French Revolution.

jack » 08 Dec 2022, 9:53 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 9:53 am

Conservatism isn't fascism anymore than liberalism is communism. The confusion about this probably comes from the artificial left/right division of
political philosophy that began with the French Revolution.

Socialism is all about converting ancestors into contextual type characters performing all theaters of obeying doubt on the world stage until extinction arrives.

But also...of course...don't fall into the error that Hollywood etc represents fascism properly. 

No...fascists have zero interest in oppressing people or harming them. There is no sadism to fascism. 

They WILL do it, if NECESSARY, for the survival of their people. But that is an unusual circumstance. 

Hitler did indeed feel the need to oppress jews...because he perceived then to be an existential threat to Germany. Whether you think he was right or wrong...what was his reason. 

Hitler did not feel any need to oppress blacks or gypsies or whatever. That is all fake news. in fact...hitler was pretty good for blacks. Thanks to the olympics being held in berlon, jessie owens was allowed to compete. The usa never would have allowed that at the time. 

jack » 08 Dec 2022, 9:53 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 9:53 am

Conservatism isn't fascism anymore than liberalism is communism. The confusion about this probably comes from the artificial left/right division of
political philosophy that began with the French Revolution.

And that was monarchy vs republicanism...which is an obsolete issue today. 

But actually I think k it is supported by propaganda today...because the elite love to divide people into 2 groups. And they want the groups to be as close as possible to 50/50. 

That keeps people distracted with eachother and provides good cover for the elite who can then do whatever they want without being noticed. 

FOS » 08 Dec 2022, 9:57 am » wrote: ↑

08 Dec 2022, 9:57 am

And that was monarchy vs republicanism...which is an obsolete issue today. 

But actually I think k it is supported by propaganda today...because the elite love to divide people into 2 groups. And they want the groups to be as close as possible to 50/50. 

That keeps people distracted with eachother and provides good cover for the elite who can then do whatever they want without being noticed.

It was monarchy vs. the spirit of liberty cloaked in republicanism taken from the recent American revolution but the point is the revolutionaries sat on the left side of the chamber, the monarchists on the right, and that split became the artificial left/right division for the future with all the propaganda and superficiality you mention.