Liberal Forum

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

Monderegal » 24 Jan 2023, 10:56 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 10:56 am

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

Ukraine is going to lose territory.

A country cannot murder ethnic minorities for a decade and regain their allegiance. The citizens in Eastern Ukraine will persue their freedom with or without Russia's assistance. 
 
 

Monderegal » 24 Jan 2023, 10:56 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 10:56 am

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

Ukraine already lost the war. Biden doesn't want to acknowledge this.  Zelenskyy already knows it. Europe is somewhat indifferent.

So, it's up to Putin - how much of Ukraine does he want. Just ask Flo.....

"Vlad, try the Name Your Price Tool, then see the best land-grab options for you"
@slideman  approved!!!  
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 11:00 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 11:00 am

Ukraine is going to lose territory.

A country cannot murder ethnic minorities for a decade and regain their allegiance. The citizens in Eastern Ukraine will persue their freedom with or without Russia's assistance.

From what I can tell you're probably right. This is a story of trenches just like the First World War. Still, there are those who worry what will happen in Europe if Russia is allowed to annex territory. I've also heard stories of Ukrainians working for the Russians given their ethnic allegiances. 

Monderegal » 24 Jan 2023, 11:37 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 11:37 am

From what I can tell you're probably right. This is a story of trenches just like the First World War. Still, there are those who worry what will happen in Europe if Russia is allowed to annex territory.

The notion that Putin will be emboldened to attack NATO countries if he isn't put to rout in 'Kraine is nonsense - fodder for the uneducated.

The difference between attacing ukraine and attacking poland is the difference between squishing a bug and hunting an elephant. 

Monderegal » 24 Jan 2023, 11:37 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 11:37 am

I've also heard stories of Ukrainians working for the Russians given their ethnic allegiances.

The ethnic russians were in an active state of rebellion when putin invaded. 

They are being armed by and in many cases directed by the russian military.

They were holding petty grudges about ukranian nationalist militias raping their wives and killing their children.

For a decade. While the world press remained quiet. To foment a proxy war.

 
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 11:40 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 11:40 am

The notion that Putin will be emboldened to attack NATO countries if he isn't put to rout in 'Kraine is nonsense - fodder for the uneducated.

The difference between attacing ukraine and attacking poland is the difference between squishing a bug and hunting an elephant. 

The ethnic russians were in an active state of rebellion when putin invaded. 

They are being armed by and in many cases directed by the russian military.

They were holding petty grudges about ukranian nationalist militias raping their wives and killing their children.

For a decade. While the world press remained quiet. To foment a proxy war.

Well I agree with almost all that sentiment. EXCEPT the notion that the press was trying to foment a proxy war. The proxy war started when Putin invaded.

Monderegal » 24 Jan 2023, 12:05 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 12:05 pm

Well I agree with almost all that sentiment. EXCEPT the notion that the press was trying to foment a proxy war. The proxy war started when Putin invaded.

What a silly utterance. You know - or have no excuse for NOT knowing - that our deep state deposed the elected leader of Ukraine and installed an anti-Russia president. You know - or have no excuse for NOT knowing - that Obama's interference in Ukraine led to the annexation of Crimea. You know - or have no excuse for NOT knowing - that Ukraine CONTINUALLY violated the accords that followed by allowing nationalist paramilitaries to beleaguer ethnic russians in eastern ukraine. 

Putin spent MONTHS trying to avoid invading ukraine. The western press reported only on what he was doing, and never on why he was doing it. 

Your willful ignorance does not excuse the western media. It INDICTS the western media. 

Answer to this: Do you at least understand that our actions left Putin no choice but to annex Crimea? Do you understand why Russia's national security REQUIRED that annexation?
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 11:00 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 11:00 am

Ukraine is going to lose territory.

A country cannot murder ethnic minorities for a decade and regain their allegiance. The citizens in Eastern Ukraine will persue their freedom with or without Russia's assistance.

I doubt if 3 people know what you are talking about

did you ever see this?

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/09/29/eu-p ... ferendums/
 

Mrkelly » 24 Jan 2023, 12:17 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 12:17 pm

I doubt if 3 people know what you are talking about

did you ever see this?

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/09/29/eu-p ... ferendums/

This is a perfect parallel to the sanctions of free speech and consciencious objection against those who questioned the rushed-to-market Trump vaccines.

Just IMAGINE the silliness of pretending that not one, but MULTIPLE "vaccines" could be safely distributed without observing established protocls which ALREADY fail 25% of the time to protect public health, resulting in law suits and recalls. "Let's pass a law that says pharma can flout the law - what could possibly go wrong with that? And THEN, let's punish anyone who objects by taking away their jobs. Wait, wait - this gets better. Instead of having the usual suspects - REPUBLICANS - push this thing, let's task the LEFT with the job of licking pharma's taint."
 
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 12:22 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 12:22 pm

This is a perfect parallel to the sanctions of free speech and consciencious objection against those who questioned the rushed-to-market Trump vaccines.

Just IMAGINE the silliness of pretending that not one, but MULTIPLE "vaccines" could be safely distributed without observing established protocls which ALREADY fail 25% of the time to protect public health, resulting in law suits and recalls. "Let's pass a law that says pharma can flout the law - what could possibly go wrong with that? And THEN, let's punish anyone who objects by taking away their jobs. Wait, wait - this gets better. Instead of having the usual suspects - REPUBLICANS - push this thing, let's task the LEFT with the job of licking pharma's taint."

it’s all about money and control 

and they knew it, all of them

https://youtu.be/JaHXpb7oG7s
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 12:16 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 12:16 pm

What a silly utterance. You know - or have no excuse for NOT knowing - that our deep state deposed the elected leader of Ukraine and installed an anti-Russia president. You know - or have no excuse for NOT knowing - that Obama's interference in Ukraine led to the annexation of Crimea. You know - or have no excuse for NOT knowing - that Ukraine CONTINUALLY violated the accords that followed by allowing nationalist paramilitaries to beleaguer ethnic russians in eastern ukraine. 

Putin spent MONTHS trying to avoid invading ukraine. The western press reported only on what he was doing, and never on why he was doing it. 

Your willful ignorance does not excuse the western media. It INDICTS the western media. 

Answer to this: Do you at least understand that our actions left Putin no choice but to annex Crimea? Do you understand why Russia's national security REQUIRED that annexation?

Russia has an arsenal of nuclear weapons to defend against invasion of Russia militarily. Crimea is heavily Russian in ethnicity and Putin wanted a foothold in the Black Sea. It also offered a choking point in the Sea of Azov. The move was strategic, not one of necessity from my understanding unless you can prove otherwise.
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 11:00 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 11:00 am

Ukraine is going to lose territory.

A country cannot murder ethnic minorities for a decade and regain their allegiance. The citizens in Eastern Ukraine will persue their freedom with or without Russia's assistance.

Putin's Russia murders ethnic minorities ALL THE TIME.
Most of the Russians claiming to be persecuted were sent to Ukraine by Putin.

It is not essential that real estate be awarded just because grumpy people live on it.
One thing that Russia has a lot of is unoccupied territory.
Every day there are fewer Russians, the population is declining.

Xavier_Onassis » 24 Jan 2023, 1:25 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 1:25 pm

Putin's Russia murders ethnic minorities ALL THE TIME.
Most of the Russians claiming to be persecuted were sent to Ukraine by Putin.

It is not essential that real estate be awarded just because grumpy people live on it.
One thing that Russia has a lot of is unoccupied territory.
Every day there are fewer Russians, the population is declining.

Must be fun to make up stuff.    

Monderegal » 24 Jan 2023, 10:56 am » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 10:56 am

Everyone knows that wars end. A perpetual state of conflict is not possible. I have a question about the end of the Ukraine conflict. Will Ukraine give Russia territorial concessions of parts of the pre war borders? The experts are pretty split on this right now. What will really make the difference is where the war heads next. Spring is probably going to be the real test when Russia sends more troops in my opinion. Will there be a settlement or a demand by Ukraine to not give an inch of territory?

My take on this is that the war will contInue until Zelensky ,Biden and NATO depletes the weapons caches of their respective countries to such an extent that China is the only superpower left standing with a formidable and global military presence.
In our case we are already depleting our weapons stockpiles to dangerous levels while also depleting our stockpiles held by our allies like Israel and South Korea.
The Ukraine is no longer a Democracy under Zelensky whom has either killed or jailed his political opponents as well as outlawed all of his political opposition parties and has outlawed all forms of media and journalism that is not sympathetic to him and NATO.
Ukrainians abroad and at home are starting to openly question Zelensky's real motives for not striving for peace while callously sacrificing countless Ukrainians to die in a war that could easily be stopped via real negotiations with Putin and are openly accusing him of being a globalist puppet of the leftist woke ideology that The WEF is pushing globally which has never been a popular ideology in the Ukraine and still isn't.
Meanwhile European citizenry are also openly questioning their government's whom are also predominantly now ruled by leftist ideology and WEF policies nobody voted for re​​​garding keeping this war which is  causing unprecedented harm and hardship for most of European society by providing weaponry to keep this war ongoing which in turn  keeps increasing the harm and hardship of European society.
​​​​​​In my opinion this war can only end in 3 ways now because of how heavily invested Biden, Trudeau and NATO are in this war and how they have pledged their unending support to Zelensky.
1) Zelensky gets removed either by an internal coup via The Ukrainians themselves or via assassination also by Ukrainians.
2) European Leftist/ WEF governments lose power via elections.
3) Putin  changes course and militarily takes the entire country instead of just a chunk of it ....





 

Is it anything like marvels end game?

Monderegal » 24 Jan 2023, 12:52 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 12:52 pm

Russia has an arsenal of nuclear weapons to defend against invasion of Russia militarily. Crimea is heavily Russian in ethnicity and Putin wanted a foothold in the Black Sea. It also offered a choking point in the Sea of Azov. The move was strategic, not one of necessity from my understanding unless you can prove otherwise.

Sweet Jesus. Putin wanted a foothold? Russia OWNS that mother **** - that was put under threat by ukraine's democracy being cancelled by the american deep state. 

For a mother **** who doesn't know ****, why are you starting a thread into your weak suit?

Xavier_Onassis » 24 Jan 2023, 1:25 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 1:25 pm

Putin's Russia murders ethnic minorities ALL THE TIME.
 

Which ones, mouth? What ethnicities is it Russian policy to murder?

Here's a thought, when you find you have no answer: Shut your vapid penis intake, stupe. 
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 5:41 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Jan 2023, 5:41 pm

Sweet Jesus. Putin wanted a foothold? Russia OWNS that mother **** - that was put under threat by ukraine's democracy being cancelled by the american deep state. 

For a mother **** who doesn't know ****, why are you starting a thread into your weak suit?

So what's the threat to Putin in the Black Sea? Perhaps you can enlighten me with the naval stipulations of the sea and tell me why Putin seemed threatened militarily and needed Crimea. He barely has a navy as it is. I can see the regime wanting to keep its friends in power in Ukraine and make it a vassal state. Tell me that isn't reciprocal too for a man who wanted the US to free an international arms dealer for him. Two to tango. And yes, I'm not really versed in how the law of the sea is enforced, that is not my strong suit. I do know he wanted to own that strait imperially. I guess he thought some country might invade Russia from the sea when they have an arsenal of nuclear weapons.
 
 

no one will be left alive to see the end of biden's game in ukraine.

Putin is more than willing to turn Ukraine into a meat grinder for his own people. He won't stop.