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End Game in Ukraine
End Game in Ukraine
By Monderegal
24 Jan 2023 9:56 am in No Holds Barred Political Forum
26 Jan 2023 4:02 am
Varnaj42 » 26 Jan 2023, 4:35 am » wrote: ↑ It was not a coup that moved Crimea to Russia. It was Putin who did that. Was there involvement of the US? How so? Can you prove that statement or are you just repeating what you've heard?
I will clarify about the Soviet Union. I believe that Putin wants to restore the geographical boundaries that were present with the Soviet Union. I did not mean to say he wanted the return of communism. Russia has long used geography to protect itself. It was the seemingly endless stretches of plains in the winter time that defeated Napoleon and later Hitler. Now the Baltic states and Poland and Ukraine are aligned with the west. This means that an enemy would have a much easier time invading and conquering Russia. This, and this alone, is why Putin wants Ukraine back. If he succeeds he will turn his eyes north to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Believe me. He will.
Putin's dreams are based on fear. This is never a healthy way to lead. Fear is weakness. Confidence is strength.
Damn.
You are pretty cool.
OK.
I will listen to you.
https://youtu.be/JHKvvT6IO9M
26 Jan 2023 5:31 am
Between 6 degrees of deception working 8 corners of thinking outside a box are 7 diagonal means to alternating every reality spontaneously takling place currently.Cannonpointer » 26 Jan 2023, 12:31 am » wrote: ↑ No. Russia was a benefitting partner in the PREVIOUS global regime. The USSR did some serious pillaging under the previous regime - as did the NATO alliance. But the USSR's oligarchy got sold out by gorby, and Russia became a kleptocracy. Putin came in a decade and a clownshow later (google,"Boris Yeltsin") and put a stop to that ****. He worked very, very hard and very, very patiently to rebuild Russia as a functional nation state.
The western press labeled HIM a kleptocrat, for ending the kleptocracy that benefitted the west's oligarchs (yes, we have oligarchs).
Russia offered to join NATO. NATO said no, because it raison d'etre is to sack Russia and steal its wealth.
Russia began the century on its knees - sacked by internal and external oligarchs. Putin rebuilt Russia's capacity and integrity to the point that Russia defeated the U.S. in the Syrian proxy war.
Google "Bashar al-Assad." You will learn that America's INTENDED, DECLARED regime change did not occur.
People are dying in post-vax America now. Women are being forcibly imprisoned with convicted male rapists. We recently saw cities burned and looted, cops gunned by angry mobs in RACE RIOTS; Hundreds die weekly in gang murders. Maybe your nose belongs in your own backyard. Let's get OUR house in order, and then take on the planet.
Perhaps the media that inform your opinions aren't being honest.
Please list the colonizers who did not provide benefits, yet still managed to colonize. I'll start the list for you:
1. Fantasy Land
2.
3.
Yes, global poverty and hunger has continued to decline as global population has RISEN - unlike the narrative you have been fed. Thanks for noticing an actual fact in this post. Indeed, you could likely super-impose charts of hunger decreasing and global human population rising and see a direct correlation - as if the one tracked the other. As if humans were resources and not a cancer or a pollutant or a crisis.
Russia responding to U.S. and NATO aggression will not be the reason that trend is reversed. The machinations of the people who control the information you consume will be at cause in the matter. Russians will be at effect (though not nearly as much as western nations, as Russians have a leader).
3 of those 7 so the average between event horizons changes self contained in boxed in idealist from a naturally timed apart ancestor are perpendicular expanding details and the other 4 are diagonal postions of contracting results of the current 5 generation gaps lived and arriving replacements actually being eternally separated now.
the first pick in my signature. the second picture is the natural alignment of 31 lifetimes linked to genetic continuaiton of current population of each species currently occupying time inhabiting space now.
26 Jan 2023 7:56 am
Whew... Thanks. I needed that perspective.Cannonpointer » 26 Jan 2023, 2:02 am » wrote: ↑ The obvious answer is that we are so on top of our own **** that we have time to help other folks manage theirs.
I could see complaining about the billions spent in what has for more than a decade been considered the most corrupt country in Europe - a true kleptocracy, if we had any use of those billions here in the USA. But why piddle those dollars away on medical or education or retirement for people already over-blessed with such?
Mind you, there IS a good argument that we ought to sort gender within our own borders before we go about sorting border disputes on far away continents. But I say why quibble - just send the money to ukraine. I can ASSURE you, some of it DOES come back, in the form of dark money. Snicker.
Stupid me... I thought things were kind of **** up.
-
Well, I'm off to the Toddlers and Waddlers Storytime Hour at Bulgey's Buffet Room.
Please seat yourself.
I like the very things you hate.
I like the very things you hate.
26 Jan 2023 8:44 am
Well, most of what you are saying is probably notions I would agree with. Still, let me ask you one question. Why did Putin invade Ukraine other than his desire for Russian glory? You said it was something he "had" to do. Motive is key here.Cannonpointer » 26 Jan 2023, 12:31 am » wrote: ↑ No. Russia was a benefitting partner in the PREVIOUS global regime. The USSR did some serious pillaging under the previous regime - as did the NATO alliance. But the USSR's oligarchy got sold out by gorby, and Russia became a kleptocracy. Putin came in a decade and a clownshow later (google,"Boris Yeltsin") and put a stop to that ****. He worked very, very hard and very, very patiently to rebuild Russia as a functional nation state.
The western press labeled HIM a kleptocrat, for ending the kleptocracy that benefitted the west's oligarchs (yes, we have oligarchs).
Russia offered to join NATO. NATO said no, because it raison d'etre is to sack Russia and steal its wealth.
Russia began the century on its knees - sacked by internal and external oligarchs. Putin rebuilt Russia's capacity and integrity to the point that Russia defeated the U.S. in the Syrian proxy war.
Google "Bashar al-Assad." You will learn that America's INTENDED, DECLARED regime change did not occur.
People are dying in post-vax America now. Women are being forcibly imprisoned with convicted male rapists. We recently saw cities burned and looted, cops gunned by angry mobs in RACE RIOTS; Hundreds die weekly in gang murders. Maybe your nose belongs in your own backyard. Let's get OUR house in order, and then take on the planet.
Perhaps the media that inform your opinions aren't being honest.
Please list the colonizers who did not provide benefits, yet still managed to colonize. I'll start the list for you:
1. Fantasy Land
2.
3.
Yes, global poverty and hunger has continued to decline as global population has RISEN - unlike the narrative you have been fed. Thanks for noticing an actual fact in this post. Indeed, you could likely super-impose charts of hunger decreasing and global human population rising and see a direct correlation - as if the one tracked the other. As if humans were resources and not a cancer or a pollutant or a crisis.
Russia responding to U.S. and NATO aggression will not be the reason that trend is reversed. The machinations of the people who control the information you consume will be at cause in the matter. Russians will be at effect (though not nearly as much as western nations, as Russians have a leader).
Nothing is easier than defending the status quo.
26 Jan 2023 10:16 am
Putin could not tolerate the existence of a liberal democracy succeeding on his doorstep.Monderegal » 26 Jan 2023, 9:44 am » wrote: ↑ Well, most of what you are saying is probably notions I would agree with. Still, let me ask you one question. Why did Putin invade Ukraine other than his desire for Russian glory? You said it was something he "had" to do. Motive is key here.
26 Jan 2023 10:45 am
At least the world will be safe from a fool like you.walkingstick » 24 Jan 2023, 8:49 pm » wrote: ↑ no one will be left alive to see the end of biden's game in ukraine.
26 Jan 2023 11:03 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957Varnaj42 » 26 Jan 2023, 4:35 am » wrote: ↑ It was not a coup that moved Crimea to Russia. It was Putin who did that. Was there involvement of the US? How so? Can you prove that statement or are you just repeating what you've heard?
I will clarify about the Soviet Union. I believe that Putin wants to restore the geographical boundaries that were present with the Soviet Union. I did not mean to say he wanted the return of communism. Russia has long used geography to protect itself. It was the seemingly endless stretches of plains in the winter time that defeated Napoleon and later Hitler. Now the Baltic states and Poland and Ukraine are aligned with the west. This means that an enemy would have a much easier time invading and conquering Russia. This, and this alone, is why Putin wants Ukraine back. If he succeeds he will turn his eyes north to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Believe me. He will.
Putin's dreams are based on fear. This is never a healthy way to lead. Fear is weakness. Confidence is strength.
26 Jan 2023 11:08 am
And the people of crimea themselves wanted to join Russia. The ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine have been treated like **** by Ukraine since 2014...their language and religion basically outlawed...many of them simply being killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashesVarnaj42 » 26 Jan 2023, 4:35 am » wrote: ↑ It was not a coup that moved Crimea to Russia. It was Putin who did that. Was there involvement of the US? How so? Can you prove that statement or are you just repeating what you've heard?
I will clarify about the Soviet Union. I believe that Putin wants to restore the geographical boundaries that were present with the Soviet Union. I did not mean to say he wanted the return of communism. Russia has long used geography to protect itself. It was the seemingly endless stretches of plains in the winter time that defeated Napoleon and later Hitler. Now the Baltic states and Poland and Ukraine are aligned with the west. This means that an enemy would have a much easier time invading and conquering Russia. This, and this alone, is why Putin wants Ukraine back. If he succeeds he will turn his eyes north to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. Believe me. He will.
Putin's dreams are based on fear. This is never a healthy way to lead. Fear is weakness. Confidence is strength.
Like I said...it would be dishonorable for putin not to involve himself in such stuff
26 Jan 2023 1:39 pm
You are correct to say that SOME of the citizens in those regions wanted to join Russia. Only some. Not even a majority. This is normal for any trans-national region regardless of ethnicity. The trouble is the way those folks were accomodated. They held a local referendum sponsored by Russia. The government of Ukraine was left out of the process. This is the basis for my complaint. In such an action, where lands change from one nation to another, the governments of both nations should be involved. In this case the referendum should have been coordinated by both Ukraine and Russia. It was not. Ukraine was left out of the decision making process.FOS » 26 Jan 2023, 12:08 pm » wrote: ↑ And the people of crimea themselves wanted to join Russia. The ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine have been treated like **** by Ukraine since 2014...their language and religion basically outlawed...many of them simply being killed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes
Like I said...it would be dishonorable for putin not to involve himself in such stuff
More recently in my city of origin, Kherson, after the Russians took over they again had a referendum. Again Ukraine was left out of the process. The people laughed at them while Russian soldiers were busy looting markets, stealing cigarettes and vodka and stealing washing machines from citizens.
There is a huge difference between solving the social disputes that result from international borders through diplomacy and the act of simply taking land because some citizens want it that way. This is the basis of all the complaints.
International land disputes are settled through the participation of BOTH governments...
26 Jan 2023 1:42 pm
No...it actually was a majority. Like I said...the usa was involved in the maidan coup because the west did not want Ukraine to have closer ties to Russia.Varnaj42 » 26 Jan 2023, 2:39 pm » wrote: ↑ You are correct to say that SOME of the citizens in those regions wanted to join Russia. Only some. Not even a majority. This is normal for any trans-national region regardless of ethnicity. The trouble is the way those folks were accomodated. They held a local referendum sponsored by Russia. The government of Ukraine was left out of the process. This is the basis for my complaint. In such an action, where lands change from one nation to another, the governments of both nations should be involved. In this case the referendum should have been coordinated by both Ukraine and Russia. It was not. Ukraine was left out of the decision making process.
More recently in my city of origin, Kherson, after the Russians took over they again had a referendum. Again Ukraine was left out of the process. The people laughed at them while Russian soldiers were busy looting markets, stealing cigarettes and vodka and stealing washing machines from citizens.
There is a huge difference between solving the social disputes that result from international borders through diplomacy and the act of simply taking land because some citizens want it that way. This is the basis of all the complaints.
International land disputes are settled through the participation of BOTH governments...
26 Jan 2023 3:26 pm
Your argument is too one sided.FOS » 26 Jan 2023, 2:42 pm » wrote: ↑ No...it actually was a majority. Like I said...the usa was involved in the maidan coup because the west did not want Ukraine to have closer ties to Russia.
We could argue about whether or not it was a majority but the fact remains that the Ukrainian government was left out of the decision making process. This, by itself, is contrary to the norms that govern our world. For succession everyone must agree, not just one party. It's about maturity and respect.
Yes.... the people have something to say about it but the fact remains that ALL the people plus their legal government should have a seat at the table. In the case of Putin's referendums this process was not honored. This is the reason that Putin is scorned by so many.
26 Jan 2023 3:30 pm
Varnaj42 » 26 Jan 2023, 4:26 pm » wrote: ↑ Your argument is too one sided.
We could argue about whether or not it was a majority but the fact remains that the Ukrainian government was left out of the decision making process. This, by itself, is contrary to the norms that govern our world. For succession everyone must agree, not just one party. It's about maturity and respect.
Yes.... the people have something to say about it but the fact remains that ALL the people plus their legal government should have a seat at the table. In the case of Putin's referendums this process was not honored. This is the reason that Putin is scorned by so many.
well i find it amusing that you care so much about the sovereignty of ukraine, the most corrupt country in europe, when clearly they are currently simply acting as puppets of NATO, and ukrainian men are being used as cannon fodder to serve the interests of globalists.
obviously it was not russia...but the COUP ITSELF which interfered with your 'ukranian government'. that is why it is called a coup....right?
26 Jan 2023 5:59 pm
Corrupt or not Ukraine is sovereign. None of us, you or I included has the authority to judge a country then find it unworthy and then agree that a part of that country can simply be taken from it. The issue is not corruption. The issue is international law.FOS » 26 Jan 2023, 4:30 pm » wrote: ↑ well i find it amusing that you care so much about the sovereignty of ukraine, the most corrupt country in europe, when clearly they are currently simply acting as puppets of NATO, and ukrainian men are being used as cannon fodder to serve the interests of globalists.
obviously it was not russia...but the COUP ITSELF which interfered with your 'ukranian government'. that is why it is called a coup....right?
It was Porochenko who was the king of the corrupt. Zelensky ran against him on an anti-corruption ticket and won. Sure. There is still lots of corruption. It takes time to erase it all. It's human nature.
You say they are a puppet of NATO? Well what if they are? They are still sovereign and entitled to territorial integrity.
Sorry.... your arguments are based on emotion, not logic. If Putin was an honorable man he would come to the bargaining table like an adult instead of simply invading. Nearly 100K Russian mothers and wives have lost their sons and husbands just because Putin is not a grown, mature man. That.... outweighs any petty claims of corruption.
You may certainly continue to think as you like but this post is my final answer to you.
26 Jan 2023 8:32 pm
I'm no putinologist, so rank-ording his motives is a bit above my pay grade.Monderegal » 26 Jan 2023, 9:44 am » wrote: ↑ Well, most of what you are saying is probably notions I would agree with. Still, let me ask you one question. Why did Putin invade Ukraine other than his desire for Russian glory? You said it was something he "had" to do. Motive is key here.
Instead, I will attack the question from the other direction.
The odds of putin invading ukraine prior to the Obama-administration little deuce coup were precisely in step with Taipan getting laid and there being no vans, ropes, or chloroform involved.
Putin invaded Ukraine AFTER Obama invaded Ukraine. AFTER the coup - perhaps to "restore democracy." And then there is this:
It is beyond question that putin's intention is regime change. He has made that clear. Oh - and to restore democracy in the eastern part of the country. And regime change and democracy restoration are noble and legal and correct, every time we do it. Frankly, I have been shocked - bowl me over with a feather shocked - that americans, of all people on this earth, are choking on a large country invading a small one with regime change and restoring democracy on its mind. I mean, seriously - WHAT THE ****? You got a problem with regime change and restoring democracy?
Beside all that? Why are you so focused on PUTIN'S motivation, when the motivation of the US is a matter of record? Here - let a liberal progressive Bernie Bro who champions medicare for all and universal higher education explain it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCPS1fJjoGw
When you complain, ur friends roll their eyes and ur enemies rejoice
"Because I SAY I am" is a todler's tantrum, not "science"
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not a friend
An opinion you won't defend is not your own
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is a todler's tantrum, not "science"
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not a friend
An opinion you won't defend is not your own
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
26 Jan 2023 11:10 pm
HAVE YOU READ THE MINSK PROTOCOL AND MINSK 2 AGREEMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY?Monderegal » 25 Jan 2023, 3:12 pm » wrote: ↑ Actually he is absolutely right. Eastern provinces of Ukraine consider themselves ethnic Russians and there has been a conflict in that region since 2014 prior to the full scale invasion 11 months ago. There were two peace deals called Minsk I and Minsk II that were abandoned in the ceasefire stage. Both sides of that conflict blamed the other one for violating the terms. Then Putin tried to annex all of Ukraine flagrantly which is the full scale conflict the world is now witnessing. .
IF YOU HAVE AND ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE DAILY LIVING ENVIRONMENT AND SITUATIONS IN LUHANSK AND DONETSK SINCE SEPTEMBER 2014, YOU'D WELL BE AWARE OF WHO VIOLATED THE MINSK PROTOCOL AND FIVE MONTHS LATER, THE MINSK 2 AGREEMENT.
THE FIRST VIOLATION WAS BY UKRAINE WITH RESPECT TO MODALITIES OF LOCAL ELECTIONS AND AN ORDER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT WITH RESPECT TO ITS FUTURE OPERATION. KIEV DID NOT FULFILL THIS PIVOTAL STEP. KIEV REFUSED A DIALOGUE WITH THE DONBASS REBEL REGIONS REPRESENTATIVES. (1) ON THE MODALITIES RELATED TO CONDUCTING ELECTIONS IN THE DONBAS (2) ON UKRAINIAN LAW TO BE ADOPTED ACCORDING TO MINSK 2 - ON THE TEMPORARY ORDER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE DONETSK AND LUGANSK REGIONS (3) WITH THE RESPECT TO THE FUTURE OPERATION OF THESE AREAS ON THE BASIS OF THE LAW (4) ON ANY OTHER SUBJECT RELATED TO THE CRISIS.
KIEV VIOLATED ARTICLE 11 OF THE MINSK 2 AGREEMENT WHICH REQUIRED IT TO ADOPT A NEW CONSTITUTION. ONE THAT INCORPORATED DECENTRALIZATION THAT PROVIDED FOR LINGUISTIC SELF-DETERMINATION (1).TO ALLOW DONBASS AND PERHAPS OTHER REGIONS TO USE MINORITY LANGUAGES SUCH AS RUSSIAN. (2). PARTICIPATION OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN APPOINTING HEADS OF PROSECUTORIAL BODIES AND THE COURTS IN DONETSK AND LUGANSK; THE POSSIBILTY FOR THE CENTRAL EXECUTIVE AUTHORITIES TO CONCLUDE AGREEMENTS WITH AUTHORITIES IN THE DONBASS ON ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT IN CERTAIN REGIONS, THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PEOPLE'S MILITIA BY ORDER OF LOCAL COUNCILS FOR MAINTAINING PUBLIC ORDER IN DONBASS, AND SEVERAL OTHER CLAUSES. NEITHER A NEW CONSTITUTION OR A LAW ON DECENTRILIZATION AND THE OTHER ISSUES LISTED IN THE NOTE HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY KIEV.
MEASURES TO IMPROVE THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION NEVER IMPROVED AND THE AZOV AND AIDAR NEO-NAZI BATTALIONS TORTURED, RAPED, AND MURDERED NON-UKRAINIAN SPEAKING CIVILIANS, MANY RUSSIANS SINCE BEFORE 2014.
27 Jan 2023 9:33 am
I haven't read the Minsk agreements. They were violated by both sides. They're called cease fires. I doubt if I actually read those I would know what happened on the ground. Lighten up a little.righteous » 27 Jan 2023, 12:10 am » wrote: ↑ HAVE YOU READ THE MINSK PROTOCOL AND MINSK 2 AGREEMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY?
IF YOU HAVE AND ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE DAILY LIVING ENVIRONMENT AND SITUATIONS IN LUHANSK AND DONETSK SINCE SEPTEMBER 2014, YOU'D WELL BE AWARE OF WHO VIOLATED THE MINSK PROTOCOL AND FIVE MONTHS LATER, THE MINSK 2 AGREEMENT.
THE FIRST VIOLATION WAS BY UKRAINE WITH RESPECT TO MODALITIES OF LOCAL ELECTIONS AND AN ORDER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT WITH RESPECT TO ITS FUTURE OPERATION. KIEV DID NOT FULFILL THIS PIVOTAL STEP. KIEV REFUSED A DIALOGUE WITH THE DONBASS REBEL REGIONS REPRESENTATIVES. (1) ON THE MODALITIES RELATED TO CONDUCTING ELECTIONS IN THE DONBAS (2) ON UKRAINIAN LAW TO BE ADOPTED ACCORDING TO MINSK 2 - ON THE TEMPORARY ORDER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE DONETSK AND LUGANSK REGIONS (3) WITH THE RESPECT TO THE FUTURE OPERATION OF THESE AREAS ON THE BASIS OF THE LAW (4) ON ANY OTHER SUBJECT RELATED TO THE CRISIS.
KIEV VIOLATED ARTICLE 11 OF THE MINSK 2 AGREEMENT WHICH REQUIRED IT TO ADOPT A NEW CONSTITUTION. ONE THAT INCORPORATED DECENTRALIZATION THAT PROVIDED FOR LINGUISTIC SELF-DETERMINATION (1).TO ALLOW DONBASS AND PERHAPS OTHER REGIONS TO USE MINORITY LANGUAGES SUCH AS RUSSIAN. (2). PARTICIPATION OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN APPOINTING HEADS OF PROSECUTORIAL BODIES AND THE COURTS IN DONETSK AND LUGANSK; THE POSSIBILTY FOR THE CENTRAL EXECUTIVE AUTHORITIES TO CONCLUDE AGREEMENTS WITH AUTHORITIES IN THE DONBASS ON ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT IN CERTAIN REGIONS, THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PEOPLE'S MILITIA BY ORDER OF LOCAL COUNCILS FOR MAINTAINING PUBLIC ORDER IN DONBASS, AND SEVERAL OTHER CLAUSES. NEITHER A NEW CONSTITUTION OR A LAW ON DECENTRILIZATION AND THE OTHER ISSUES LISTED IN THE NOTE HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY KIEV.
MEASURES TO IMPROVE THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION NEVER IMPROVED AND THE AZOV AND AIDAR NEO-NAZI BATTALIONS TORTURED, RAPED, AND MURDERED NON-UKRAINIAN SPEAKING CIVILIANS, MANY RUSSIANS SINCE BEFORE 2014.
Nothing is easier than defending the status quo.
27 Jan 2023 9:41 am
time to change interpretations of treadies made by people willing to sacrifice everyone else first.Monderegal » 27 Jan 2023, 10:33 am » wrote: ↑ I haven't read the Minsk agreements. They were violated by both sides. They're called cease fires. I doubt if I actually read those I would know what happened on the ground. Lighten up a little.
27 Jan 2023 9:48 am
Cannonpointer » 26 Jan 2023, 9:32 pm » wrote: ↑ I'm no putinologist, so rank-ording his motives is a bit above my pay grade.
Instead, I will attack the question from the other direction.
The odds of putin invading ukraine prior to the Obama-administration little deuce coup were precisely in step with Taipan getting laid and there being no vans, ropes, or chloroform involved.
Putin invaded Ukraine AFTER Obama invaded Ukraine. AFTER the coup - perhaps to "restore democracy." And then there is this:
It is beyond question that putin's intention is regime change. He has made that clear. Oh - and to restore democracy in the eastern part of the country. And regime change and democracy restoration are noble and legal and correct, every time we do it. Frankly, I have been shocked - bowl me over with a feather shocked - that americans, of all people on this earth, are choking on a large country invading a small one with regime change and restoring democracy on its mind. I mean, seriously - WHAT THE ****? You got a problem with regime change and restoring democracy?
Beside all that? Why are you so focused on PUTIN'S motivation, when the motivation of the US is a matter of record? Here - let a liberal progressive Bernie Bro who champions medicare for all and universal higher education explain it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCPS1fJjoGw
Well, I have two separate arguments to hold with that one. First, the Iraq situation is probably the most notable recent example of United States armed intervention. It was not built on the hope for empire like Ukraine. We were reeling from 9/11 at the time and Saddam was a brutal dictator. America was hoping for a brief victory and to give Iraq its sovereignty back. Putin was hoping to reclaim Ukraine as Russian territory when he invaded. Zelesky was not brutal nor did he not represent the true sentiment of some but not all Ukrainians.
Second, Putin showed this same behavior when he invaded provinces in Georgia prior to the Crimea annexation and the Donbass intervention in 2014. This is not solely about Ukraine. It's a pattern of behavior of unprovoked use of Russia's military to gain more influence for Russia. Therefore, it's different but the same in some ways.
Still, bottom line is that Russia invaded Ukraine. Stop and print right there. That is the issue and truth of the matter IMHO.
Nothing is easier than defending the status quo.
27 Jan 2023 10:34 am
Americans want Mexicans out of their country. What's wrong with Ukrainians wanting Cossaks out of their country?Cannonpointer » 24 Jan 2023, 5:41 pm » wrote: ↑ Sweet Jesus. Putin wanted a foothold? Russia OWNS that mother **** - that was put under threat by ukraine's democracy being cancelled by the american deep state.
For a mother **** who doesn't know ****, why are you starting a thread into your weak suit?
27 Jan 2023 12:10 pm
The problem would be one of history. The Kiev Rus was settled in the late 900s AD and the Mexican/American border was set in its current form in the mid 1800s. The Cossaks probably consider those lands their homeland BUT it is in the internationally recognized border of Ukraine. That's the problem with annexation. There is international law that also applies. Some might argue against that but it is more beneficial than any of the alternatives IMHO.
Nothing is easier than defending the status quo.
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