Liberal Forum

Skans » 16 May 2023, 12:51 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 12:51 pm

GenX was definitely into outdoor activities. Surfing, skate-boarding, etc. in the US. In the UK, they were mostly white kids of factory workers who were taught to take pride in the way they dress - thus kids wearing Doc Martins, etc. Total opposite of Boomer-Trash.

Boomers are kind of gay. I noticed that they aren't very flexible. They still think the world today is the same as it was in their time. Therefore, the younger generations should be doing the same things they did, financially and socially. I have had many discussions with boomers about that. It was hopeless. They still think it's possible for a family of 4 to have a single income while working as a salesman for an appliance company. 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 12:38 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 12:38 pm

I am proud to be a Gen Xer. Overall, we are pretty resilient. I am not sure about our parenting skills though. Again, I am only generally speaking. Obviously, this is not true for every single parent. Most members of Gen Z are children of Gen X. There has become a shortage of teachers, more than usual, since the rise of Gen Z. The reason given is always the same: Disrespectful kids. I personally have witnessed it. It's awful. I mean really bad. It's more babysitting than teaching. GenX tends to suck at parenting.

The internet plays a part in that. In 1985.. there was no internet and therefore not all of this endless information/advice about different parenting methods/styles. Yes, there was Parenting magazine but you got that via mail once a month and you paid for the subscription. My parents had a very limited social circle and so at most knew of 3 or 4 other families and how they did things. 

As for the teaching profession. I am married to a teacher who comes from a long line of education professionals. The reason that they quit the profession is that they are under the microscope more than ever. This is what they tell me. Having also witnessed the less than stellar parents who put all of the blame on teachers.... I give it some credibility. 

impartialobserver » 16 May 2023, 12:59 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 12:59 pm

The internet plays a part in that. In 1985.. there was no internet and therefore not all of this endless information/advice about different parenting methods/styles. Yes, there was Parenting magazine but you got that via mail once a month and you paid for the subscription. My parents had a very limited social circle and so at most knew of 3 or 4 other families and how they did things. 

As for the teaching profession. I am married to a teacher who comes from a long line of education professionals. The reason that they quit the profession is that they are under the microscope more than ever. This is what they tell me. Having also witnessed the less than stellar parents who put all of the blame on teachers.... I give it some credibility.

They are definitely under the microscope. However, I believe the reason is because the admin is scared of making the parents mad. Therefore, they developed a system of micromanagement on teachers, since the teachers are the ones on the front line. 

Thus, it comes down to the parents again. 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 12:57 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 12:57 pm

Boomers are kind of gay. I noticed that they aren't very flexible. They still think the world today is the same as it was in their time. Therefore, the younger generations should be doing the same things they did, financially and socially. I have had many discussions with boomers about that. It was hopeless. They still think it's possible for a family of 4 to have a single income while working as a salesman for an appliance company.

Boomers span stupid time-periods.  1946 - 1964.  People born in 1946 share nothing in common with people born in the early 1960's.  You have Boomers who were already married with kids by the time the Dirty-Doper-Hippy-Boomers came on the Scene.  Hippies were born in the early to mid '50's.  And, then there's the "lost generation born from about 1961-1964, and these folks are difficult to define - maybe call them the cocaine-boomers???
 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 1:03 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:03 pm

They are definitely under the microscope. However, I believe the reason is because the admin is scared of making the parents mad. Therefore, they developed a system of micromanagement on teachers, since the teachers are the ones on the front line. 

Thus, it comes down to the parents again.

And some of it is society as general using them (teachers) as the convenient whipping boy for all of society's ills. Your kid got a B... it is the teacher who is to blame. Your kid plays too much Fortnite at HOME (repeat HOME).. the teacher must be to blame solely. Your kid at age 29 is drinking a 12 pack every night... damn those teachers again. 

impartialobserver » 16 May 2023, 1:06 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:06 pm

And some of it is society as general using them (teachers) as the convenient whipping boy for all of society's ills. Your kid got a B... it is the teacher who is to blame. Your kid plays too much Fortnite at HOME (repeat HOME).. the teacher must be to blame solely. Your kid at age 29 is drinking a 12 pack every night... damn those teachers again.

Yes. I think if schools start standing up to the parents, then a domino effect may occur. Let them be angry. They can homeschool them. Oh well. 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 1:10 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:10 pm

Yes. I think if schools start standing up to the parents, then a domino effect may occur. Let them be angry. They can homeschool them. Oh well.

second... quit the reliance on data and therefore testing. We should focus on process and not just the result. Teaching to the test does not work. 

for those who think that money spent on a pupil is a key indicator.. just look at Eureka County, NV (gold mining money and lots of it) and Carbon County, Wyoming (coal and natural gas mines). Both have abysmal educational outcomes.. Can't blame liberalism here. so what is the issue? 

impartialobserver » 16 May 2023, 1:14 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:14 pm

second... quit the reliance on data and therefore testing. We should focus on process and not just the result. Teaching to the test does not work. 

for those who think that money spent on a pupil is a key indicator.. just look at Eureka County, NV (gold mining money and lots of it) and Carbon County, Wyoming (coal and natural gas mines). Both have abysmal educational outcomes.. Can't blame liberalism here. so what is the issue?

The issue is disrespectful kids...which comes from horrible parenting. It's actually quite simple. Teachers can't teach with disruptions. No learning is occurring. 

Think about it. Take two different groups of high school kids:

Group A:  A group of 20 high school kids with manners and respectful behaviors. The only resources were a tent and some dirt to sit on, and a great teacher.
Group B: A group of 20 high schoolers who are rude and disrespectful. Their resources were nice rooms, great computers, great technology...but also had great teachers.


Which group would have greater success in learning? 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 1:24 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:24 pm

The issue is disrespectful kids...which comes from horrible parenting. It's actually quite simple. Teachers can't teach with disruptions. No learning is occurring. 

Think about it. Take two different groups of high school kids:

Group A:  A group of 20 high school kids with manners and respectful behaviors. The only resources were a tent and some dirt to sit on, and a great teacher.
Group B: A group of 20 high schoolers who are rude and disrespectful. Their resources were nice rooms, great computers, great technology...but also had great teachers.

Which group would have greater success in learning?

disrespectul kids is not solely the product of liberal parents and liberal cities... Eureka County is not liberal at all and yet their graduation rates are abysmal and when mines are taken out of the equation, their job/income data is bleak. 

impartialobserver » 16 May 2023, 1:29 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:29 pm

disrespectul kids is not solely the product of liberal parents and liberal cities... Eureka County is not liberal at all and yet their graduation rates are abysmal and when mines are taken out of the equation, their job/income data is bleak.

I never said it was due to liberal parents. I blanketed Gen X. Not liberals or conservatives. Of course, there are some great parents. I am saying generally speaking, Gen X are awful parents. Overall. I am a Gen Xer, so I hope I don't fall into the crappy parent category. I am simply calling out what the data shows. 

Vegas » 15 May 2023, 2:09 pm » wrote: ↑

15 May 2023, 2:09 pm

Gen Z is the beloved generation that is, whether we like it or not, our country's future. They will be most of the workforce, beginning in about a decade. What are your thoughts about Gen Z? Every generation, in the beginning, always gets a bad rap. "Kids these days...blah blah blah..." That's just tradition. It happened to my generation (Gen X) and it happened to the Millennials, it probably happened to the Boomers, etc...As time goes on, generations mature. 

I am just curious what your thoughts about them are. Do you feel confident? Are you afraid? neither? 

And @Nostradamus omh  , I know that you are going to go nuts on this thread, given that we are talking about generations. Would you horribly mind keeping it down to less than 100 million words though, as opposed to your 400 million pages?

One of the biggest differences I see as a whole between Xers, Millennials, and Zers is the degradation of work ethic over time.

The Z crowd seems to expect the benefits without the sacrifice. A good many of the Gen Zers that I know personally are quick to say that being independent is just "too expensive" these days, yet they will call out from their jobs on a regular basis, take mini vacations constantly, eat out nearly every meal, and always maintain a stash of high grade weed and booze for their recreational time.

I know one young lady that constantly whines about not being able to afford her own place (she still lives at home at 25, pays no bills at home and makes over $50k a year) but spends every weekend in the clubs or taking trips with her other friends, taking every meal from a restaurant, getting high, and drinking Hennessy and Casamigos like it's going out of style. Her long time BF makes more than she does and still lives with his sister in her house too. Collectively they are pulling down over $100K a year, but somehow can't "afford" their own place because it's just too tough.

I told her to sit down a few weeks ago and add up everything she spends at the liquor store, going out, buying weed, and eating out every month and then tell me how she can't "afford" her own place again. She got pissed and said that I was being an asshole for thinking that she should have to compromise her lifestyle just to have her own place... that it wasn't "fair" to think like that. Right after that conversation I overheard her on the phone with some of her friends planning a trip to the beach in June... after having just spent a week in Gatlinburg in early March.

She is by no means alone in that mindset either. The majority of her friends have the exact same attitude. They expect the rewards but don't want to have to sacrifice to achieve them. 
 
https://www.businessinsider.com/young-a ... ey-2022-12
 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 1:33 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:33 pm

I never said it was due to liberal parents. I blanketed Gen X. Not liberals or conservatives. Of course, there are some great parents. I am saying generally speaking, Gen X are awful parents. Overall. I am a Gen Xer, so I hope I don't fall into the crappy parent category. I am simply calling out what the data shows.

off topic but in February.. some drug addict tried to drive through my house. His car high centered on a planter box and then he passed out. Well.. as proof of politics/education not mixing. He is a product of Harney county, oregon (very conservative) and yet this is his second DUI in 6 months. Apparently the police took him to the hospital because he overdosed on oxycontin and he proceeded to escape. Now he is in court today pleading not guilty. He himself is very Conservative.. anti-vax, pro-2nd amendment, and thinks that public education should be done away with altogether. 

impartialobserver » 16 May 2023, 1:44 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:44 pm

off topic but in February.. some drug addict tried to drive through my house. His car high centered on a planter box and then he passed out. Well.. as proof of politics/education not mixing. He is a product of Harney county, oregon (very conservative) and yet this is his second DUI in 6 months. Apparently the police took him to the hospital because he overdosed on oxycontin and he proceeded to escape. Now he is in court today pleading not guilty. He himself is very Conservative.. anti-vax, pro-2nd amendment, and thinks that public education should be done away with altogether.

There are idiots on both sides. 

RedheadedStranger » 16 May 2023, 1:34 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:34 pm

One of the biggest differences I see as a whole between Xers, Millennials, and Zers is the degradation of work ethic over time.

The Z crowd seems to expect the benefits without the sacrifice. A good many of the Gen Zers that I know personally are quick to say that being independent is just "too expensive" these days, yet they will call out from their jobs on a regular basis, take mini vacations constantly, eat out nearly every meal, and always maintain a stash of high grade weed and booze for their recreational time.

I know one young lady that constantly whines about not being able to afford her own place (she still lives at home at 25, pays no bills at home and makes over $50k a year) but spends every weekend in the clubs or taking trips with her other friends, taking every meal from a restaurant, getting high, and drinking Hennessy and Casamigos like it's going out of style. Her long time BF makes more than she does and still lives with his sister in her house too. Collectively they are pulling down over $100K a year, but somehow can't "afford" their own place because it's just too tough.

I told her to sit down a few weeks ago and add up everything she spends at the liquor store, going out, buying weed, and eating out every month and then tell me how she can't "afford" her own place again. She got pissed and said that I was being an asshole for thinking that she should have to compromise her lifestyle just to have her own place... that it wasn't "fair" to think like that. Right after that conversation I overheard her on the phone with some of her friends planning a trip to the beach in June... after having just spent a week in Gatlinburg in early March.

She is by no means alone in that mindset either. The majority of her friends have the exact same attitude. They expect the rewards but don't want to have to sacrifice to achieve them. 
 
https://www.businessinsider.com/young-a ... ey-2022-12

Yes, but it's too early to tell if this will be the norm for Gen Z. There are lazy asses in all generations.

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 1:58 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:58 pm

Yes, but it's too early to tell if this will be the norm for Gen Z. There are lazy asses in all generations.

The cream does eventually rise to the top for sure. 

I don't see this as much as lazy as I do an ingrained sense of entitlement. Society has fostered a younger generation that expects to have what they want when they want it, regardless. Having the latest Iphone, a nice car, and the latest fashion accessories is expected, and to be denied those things as a young adult is some sort of injustice perpetrated by an unfair system. I see it in that generation everyday. It's how they've been raised.

The latest Iphone comes out and these kids can certainly muster up the $1200 to go get one on the first day it hits the shelves, but they can't afford rent. I know one "kid" (late 20's) that sleeps on a pull out in his mom's living room because he "can't afford" a place of his own, yet he has several dressed up cars and is always dressed to the nines and wearing his jewelry and watches whenever I see him. This is not uncommon at all either, it's the norm. 

I blame a lot of it on the parents. They have effectively raised a generation of spoiled brats.
 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 1:33 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 1:33 pm

I never said it was due to liberal parents. I blanketed Gen X. Not liberals or conservatives. Of course, there are some great parents. I am saying generally speaking, Gen X are awful parents. Overall. I am a Gen Xer, so I hope I don't fall into the crappy parent category. I am simply calling out what the data shows.

Here's the thing.  Each of these "generations" really needs to be broken down into separate groups.  If it wasn't for WWII, we likely wouldn't even be talking in terms of 15-year span generations.   There was a huge, homogeneous wave of young families just after the end of WWII.  But, by the mid '50's, this wave was already fractured and unrecognizable from the post WWII time. Boomers have pre-hippies, hippies-druggies and a few years of post-hippies.  Gen-X tend to be a bit more homogeneous, except for the tail end of that Generation.  Those born more toward '85 came of age during the beginning of the internet.  That's a huge distinguishing feature of that generation.

 
 

RedheadedStranger » 16 May 2023, 2:17 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 2:17 pm

The cream does eventually rise to the top for sure. 

I don't see this as much as lazy as I do an ingrained sense of entitlement. Society has fostered a younger generation that expects to have what they want when they want it, regardless. Having the latest Iphone, a nice car, and the latest fashion accessories is expected, and to be denied those things as a young adult is some sort of injustice perpetrated by an unfair system. I see it in that generation everyday. It's how they've been raised.

The latest Iphone comes out and these kids can certainly muster up the $1200 to go get one on the first day it hits the shelves, but they can't afford rent. I know one "kid" (late 20's) that sleeps on a pull out in his mom's living room because he "can't afford" a place of his own, yet he has several dressed up cars and is always dressed to the nines and wearing his jewelry and watches whenever I see him. This is not uncommon at all either, it's the norm. 

I blame a lot of it on the parents. They have effectively raised a generation of spoiled brats.

I think Americans in general are spoiled. I look around and see people owning relatively nice cars, the latest smart phones, computers, a good house, and other luxuries, be it small or large. Yet, they still think they are poor. What other country has citizens with this much stuff who are that ungrateful? I know we have a lot of poor and homeless people here. However, I am referring to most Americans. 

ROG62 » 15 May 2023, 2:24 pm » wrote: ↑

15 May 2023, 2:24 pm

The first full generation of bonafide snowflakes...we're ****...but then, I'll be dead...

You can’t get more snowflakey than being frightened by a man in a dress. 


 

Vegas » 16 May 2023, 2:31 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 2:31 pm

I think Americans in general are spoiled. I look around and see people owning relatively nice cars, the latest smart phones, computers, a good house, and other luxuries, be it small or large. Yet, they still think they are poor. What other country has citizens with this much stuff who are that ungrateful? I know we have a lot of poor and homeless people here. However, I am referring to most Americans.

Yes, and it just keeps getting worse with each generation.

I have to laugh when I see a 20 something wearing a $300 name brand track suit and carrying a $450 designer handbag posting a picture on social media on their $1200 iphone from their 2019 Range Rover about how rough they have it because they can't afford their own place.

 

 
 

Pastafarian » 16 May 2023, 2:53 pm » wrote: ↑

16 May 2023, 2:53 pm

You can’t get more snowflakey than being frightened by a man in a dress.

It's not about being scared. It's about keeping the sick **** away from children.