Liberal Forum

Where is truth?

The world doesn't run on cold logic and facts any more than opinion and emotion.

Why is one side of this equation any more valid than the other? This seems to be the case in almost every situation.
Sure, the stock market is numbers and analysis, but underlying the moves are the emotions, fears, and expectations of investors.
Is religion and philosophy just emotion, moods, values? Yet entire civilizations live and die by that.

Posters in cyberspace make a HUGE deal about "That's just your opinion..." as though that automatically invalidates said opinion. If that opinion echoes the masses -or-  contradicts the masses, with greater weight than so-called facts, seems its validity is worthy of mention.

Just like the "Utopian Paradise" of liberals' saying "Gosh, it just doesn't have to be this way." being unattainable,
so it is with some people saying "You are stupid because you don't know every little detail like me." Those so-called facts.

We live in between two competing and unattainable scenarios.
Masses of people that will never know the minutia a tiny minority believes elevates them above the rest.
Which side dislikes the other more,,,? Which is actual truth? Self-righteousness leads in either case.

Strongly held opinion or popular opinion can be objectively wrong. See Galileo and gender theory for obvious examples.

DeezerShoove » 28 May 2023, 7:53 am » wrote: ↑

28 May 2023, 7:53 am

Where is truth?

The world doesn't run on cold logic and facts any more than opinion and emotion.

Why is one side of this equation any more valid than the other? This seems to be the case in almost every situation.
Sure, the stock market is numbers and analysis, but underlying the moves are the emotions, fears, and expectations of investors.
Is religion and philosophy just emotion, moods, values? Yet entire civilizations live and die by that.

Posters in cyberspace make a HUGE deal about "That's just your opinion..." as though that automatically invalidates said opinion. If that opinion echoes the masses -or-  contradicts the masses, with greater weight than so-called facts, seems its validity is worthy of mention.

Just like the "Utopian Paradise" of liberals' saying "Gosh, it just doesn't have to be this way." being unattainable,
so it is with some people saying "You are stupid because you don't know every little detail like me." Those so-called facts.

We live in between two competing and unattainable scenarios.
Masses of people that will never know the minutia a tiny minority believes elevates them above the rest.
Which side dislikes the other more,,,? Which is actual truth? Self-righteousness leads in either case.

 Todays “Point-counterpoint and opinion- fact”

[img]blob:c59a9a2e-3cb8-453b-a198-9f15e091c6dc[/img]
https://i.imgur.com/Hj9jR3E.jpg

 
 

Neo » 28 May 2023, 8:26 am » wrote: ↑

28 May 2023, 8:26 am

Strongly held opinion or popular opinion can be objectively wrong. See Galileo and gender theory for obvious examples.

The OP doesn't disallow your position.

DeezerShoove » 28 May 2023, 7:53 am » wrote: ↑

28 May 2023, 7:53 am

Where is truth?

The world doesn't run on cold logic and facts any more than opinion and emotion.

Why is one side of this equation any more valid than the other? This seems to be the case in almost every situation.
Sure, the stock market is numbers and analysis, but underlying the moves are the emotions, fears, and expectations of investors.
Is religion and philosophy just emotion, moods, values? Yet entire civilizations live and die by that.

Posters in cyberspace make a HUGE deal about "That's just your opinion..." as though that automatically invalidates said opinion. If that opinion echoes the masses -or-  contradicts the masses, with greater weight than so-called facts, seems its validity is worthy of mention.

Just like the "Utopian Paradise" of liberals' saying "Gosh, it just doesn't have to be this way." being unattainable,
so it is with some people saying "You are stupid because you don't know every little detail like me." Those so-called facts.

We live in between two competing and unattainable scenarios.
Masses of people that will never know the minutia a tiny minority believes elevates them above the rest.
Which side dislikes the other more,,,? Which is actual truth? Self-righteousness leads in either case.
 

You want the truth?

lol.. I couldn't resist that one... but the truth is that clown world is real, logic and facts don't apply anymore.. well, not like they used to, clown world has it own "logic" and "facts".. follow the science...so you could say that opinion and emotion are more valid these days...

 


 

Jantje_Smit » 28 May 2023, 10:48 am » wrote: ↑

28 May 2023, 10:48 am

You want the truth?

lol.. I couldn't resist that one... but the truth is that clown world is real, logic and facts don't apply anymore.. well, not like they used to, clown world has it own "logic" and "facts".. follow the science...so you could say that opinion and emotion are more valid these days...

 

I didn't expect this to be such an esoteric topic.
The discourse here is more about trying to annoy each other.

Facts get dismissed because the source is stupid.
Opinions get dismissed because the poster is stupid.
Everyone is an expert and can never admit to a mistake or (gasp) a change of mind.

100+ views and nobody knows what to say.   

Afraid to provide ammo for a driveby comment from an asshole, I guess.

DeezerShoove » 28 May 2023, 9:40 pm » wrote: ↑

28 May 2023, 9:40 pm

I didn't expect this to be such an esoteric topic.
The discourse here is more about trying to annoy each other.

Facts get dismissed because the source is stupid.
Opinions get dismissed because the poster is stupid.
Everyone is an expert and can never admit to a mistake or (gasp) a change of mind.

100+ views and nobody knows what to say.   

Afraid to provide ammo for a driveby comment from an asshole, I guess.

I get what you mean but you can't dicuss facts with stoopid people.. lol.. that's the problem with clown world, it's inhabitants have their own logic and facts, it's totally insane but you can't use normal.. what used to be normal.. logic and facts to prove them wrong and change their mind.. take the global warming climate change crap for example.. you can point out it that it doesn't make any sense but they have their own 'facts', the scientists say you have to eat bugs to save the planet and only stupid people disagree with the science...

I'm not an expert though and I don't mind admitting a mistake, not that I make many.. lol.. and I love driveby comments by assholes, gives me an excuse of doing some of my own, that's fun too.. and the snowflakes have it coming, clown word is their fault..

 
 
 
 

DeezerShoove » 28 May 2023, 9:40 pm » wrote: ↑

28 May 2023, 9:40 pm

Afraid to provide ammo for a driveby comment from an asshole, I guess.

  Hey!
 Duck can't help it.
He was born that way.
 

Squatchman » 29 May 2023, 6:16 am » wrote: ↑

29 May 2023, 6:16 am

  Hey!
 Duck can't help it.
He was born that way.

Speaking of assholes and driveby comments... and irony deficiency...

 


 

Jantje_Smit » 29 May 2023, 2:15 am » wrote: ↑

29 May 2023, 2:15 am

I get what you mean but you can't dicuss facts with stoopid people.. lol.. that's the problem with clown world, it's inhabitants have their own logic and facts, it's totally insane but you can't use normal.. what used to be normal.. logic and facts to prove them wrong and change their mind.. take the global warming climate change crap for example.. you can point out it that it doesn't make any sense but they have their own 'facts', the scientists say you have to eat bugs to save the planet and only stupid people disagree with the science...

I'm not an expert though and I don't mind admitting a mistake, not that I make many.. lol.. and I love driveby comments by assholes, gives me an excuse of doing some of my own, that's fun too.. and the snowflakes have it coming, clown word is their fault..

What I find interesting is no matter what the thread starts to be as serious, slapstick, philosophical, etc.,
It WILL turn to clowns throwing pies and all piling into the same car.
Then some of those same asswipes, like when .org caved,
come on and complain while climbing into the clown car.

A facet of life is that nobody is forced to be here.
You like politalforums.com, then go.
Russia, China, Ukraine? Then go.

...or sit in relative safety and throw darts at others like a bitch.  
 
 Might as well sit with the clowns...

DeezerShoove » 28 May 2023, 7:53 am » wrote: ↑

28 May 2023, 7:53 am

Where is truth?

The world doesn't run on cold logic and facts any more than opinion and emotion.

Why is one side of this equation any more valid than the other? This seems to be the case in almost every situation.
Sure, the stock market is numbers and analysis, but underlying the moves are the emotions, fears, and expectations of investors.
Is religion and philosophy just emotion, moods, values? Yet entire civilizations live and die by that.

Posters in cyberspace make a HUGE deal about "That's just your opinion..." as though that automatically invalidates said opinion. If that opinion echoes the masses -or-  contradicts the masses, with greater weight than so-called facts, seems its validity is worthy of mention.

Just like the "Utopian Paradise" of liberals' saying "Gosh, it just doesn't have to be this way." being unattainable,
so it is with some people saying "You are stupid because you don't know every little detail like me." Those so-called facts.

We live in between two competing and unattainable scenarios.
Masses of people that will never know the minutia a tiny minority believes elevates them above the rest.
Which side dislikes the other more,,,? Which is actual truth? Self-righteousness leads in either case.

There is no "truth" in the case of what is the best investment.  A very large portion of the stock market is driven by computer programs than buy and sell based on data that has been programmed into them.

Obviously, Tesla is not really worth more than Ford. Ford pays dividends, Tesla does not. Ford produces more vehicles by far and has a very wide range of products. But the automated trading programs get data concerning momentum and new investments in facilities, and so on paper, Tesla is worth a lot more than Ford.

Fear and greed still are factors, but more and more, automated trading programs are more and more significant in determining the day to day swings in the stock market.  Microcap and midcap companies are affected less than are blue chip companies.

Xavier_Onassis » 29 May 2023, 7:59 am » wrote: ↑

29 May 2023, 7:59 am

There is no "truth" in the case of what is the best investment.  A very large portion of the stock market is driven by computer programs than buy and sell based on data that has been programmed into them.

Obviously, Tesla is not really worth more than Ford. Ford pays dividends, Tesla does not. Ford produces more vehicles by far and has a very wide range of products. But the automated trading programs get data concerning momentum and new investments in facilities, and so on paper, Tesla is worth a lot more than Ford.

Fear and greed still are factors, but more and more, automated trading programs are more and more significant in determining the day to day swings in the stock market.  Microcap and midcap companies are affected less than are blue chip companies.

No one with any real sense believes in utopian schemes. If there were a perfect utopian scheme in place, changes in weather, other natural factors and influences in the world markets would soon make it non-utopian in a short span of time.

Plato knew this, and that is why he decided to place his "Republic' (a utopian scheme) on a distant and unvisited island.

There are a few seldom visited islands, but they are too small to have any real importance (Falkland Islands, Tristan da Cunha, Pitcairn island).

Xavier_Onassis » 29 May 2023, 7:59 am » wrote: ↑

29 May 2023, 7:59 am

There is no "truth" in the case of what is the best investment.  A very large portion of the stock market is driven by computer programs than buy and sell based on data that has been programmed into them.

Obviously, Tesla is not really worth more than Ford. Ford pays dividends, Tesla does not. Ford produces more vehicles by far and has a very wide range of products. But the automated trading programs get data concerning momentum and new investments in facilities, and so on paper, Tesla is worth a lot more than Ford.

Fear and greed still are factors, but more and more, automated trading programs are more and more significant in determining the day to day swings in the stock market.  Microcap and midcap companies are affected less than are blue chip companies.

Yes, there is a lot of speculation and perception in valuing stocks.
Fear, greed, hope, etc. drive the swings.
A phrase I hear once in a while is "The trend is your friend." Nothing hard data about that notion.
That phrase is also used at the crap table in a casino.

The rigged part of your specific example is the government's fingers loading the dice with subsidies.
Old McDonald the Potato Farmer helps pay for electric cars he may never see on his road.
The truth is I can see the urge to move away from smokers and into cleaner ways to move masses of people.
A laudable goal we don't currently have a way to execute.

ps
I visited a salt mine that closed down. Last tour for visitors before they boarded it up for good.
It was closed because from the entry shaft to the working part was way too far to be efficient.
Interestingly, it was like a mini-ecosphere. The tunnel nearest the shaft was black-walled and dirty.
This was due to the diesel powered mine carts. After years of this they switched to gas (propane) carts.
Then eventually only electrics.
As the mining continued further from the entry, the walls became cleaner and sparkled from visible crystals.
It was seeing the progression of time and technology. A fool could easily think it became proof.
Proof that electrics are the perfect solution. 

If we could only charge our cars off-the-planet. Just like the mine charged theirs out-of-the-mine.
The damned dirty generators...Infrastructure...Expensive poisonous batteries.

Perception clouded by hope and fear.

The trend in gambling games is demonstrably bogus.

Trends in the rise and fall of prices are to some degree relevant.

There is a difference between stock markets and casinos: casinos are designed to permit games in which all games favor the House.
In the stock market, there is an advantage that experts have over the ordinary investor.
But still, if you invest in diversified index funds or ETF's, and just let your money sit there, you will average between 8 and 11 percent profit
over a 20 to 30 year period.