Liberal Forum

sootedupCyndi » 27 Jun 2023, 10:58 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 10:58 am

I'm curious if anyone has done a study on how these batteries hold up in cold climate states? I've never seen a battery hold up very long in 20 below zero. i wonder about that.

I do not have the time to dig it up but there has been research on this topic and from what I recall.. they do not do well. In NV.. we have a few more per capita than other states but we also almost never see sub-zero temps. Only the very NE portion (near ID and UT) sees temps that low in some years. If anything, it makes less sense to have one in LV where the power grid is tied to Hoover Dam and other dams on the colorado river which have seen decreasing water volume. In Reno.. we get the snow melt from the Sierras and unlike LV.. we actually have some soil to contain groundwater. 

michaelf » 27 Jun 2023, 11:07 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 11:07 am

Someday they might be worth having but not now.

Right now i own my gas car.
pay attention.
gas goes up a buck a gallon? OK
i get forced to go out and buy a new EV at what cost.
I have a Huge monthly payment.
anyone good at math?
How many years would it take for me to see it saving me money?
I could buy a hell of alot of gas- for what ONE payment would cost. I could bath in it.
??????
 
 

Bruce » 26 Jun 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2023, 12:31 pm

My Republican friends hated LED light bulbs.

Now they won’t buy anything else.

EV batteries are ten times cheaper than a decade ago.

In ten more years those batteries will be many times yet again cheaper.

By then Republicans will forget they ever didn’t like running their cars for three cents a mile.

And nobody will want, a gasoline car.

No way in hell EV’s are rampant in 10 years. I haven’t seen an explosion of them at all in the last 5 years. Not a bit. Outside of a metropolitan area, they are very uncommon. Even in metropolitan cities, they probably account for less than 1 out of 100 cars on the road. Get out of here.
 

Bruce » 27 Jun 2023, 10:41 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 10:41 am

Do you realize nobody is going to really give a damn, with operating costs at three cents a mile?

Over 90% of the lead acid car batteries today are recycled, and so will EV batteries.

Not even the most MAGA Republican is going to want to buy anything but electrics in less than ten years.

EVs have one disadvantage.  They have no more range than my father’s 1965 Galaxie 500, unless you pay extra.

Not only do they cost five times or more less to run, horsepower ratings of a thousand horsepower will be common.

Read all about it, from General Motors

https://www.gm.com/electric-vehicles#:~ ... %20future.

And Ford

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/ford/

They'll even peddle them on Fox News.

So destroy the earth to make ev batteries

sootedupCyndi » 27 Jun 2023, 10:41 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 10:41 am

I just heard. That Biden admin is thinking of declaring a Climate emergency.  Do everything executive order. Bypass congress.
We saw this coming didn't we.? 
This cant be new -news. but it somehow got by me.
here they come.
yesterday it was pizza ovens.. today?
day is young.

Biden needs the distractions away from his crime family.  

FJB » 27 Jun 2023, 12:24 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 12:24 pm

So destroy the earth to make ev batteries

hey? Have you seen the pics of the acres of solar panels too? looks real nice.   yup pretty. All arssholes.
 

roadkill » 27 Jun 2023, 12:25 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 12:25 pm

Biden needs the distractions away from his crime family.

I know! and they may do anything.. to distract. Very dangerous time to live.
hang on to your hat! The next two years are gonna be rocky.
 

Skans » 27 Jun 2023, 7:07 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 7:07 am

Not only that, but consider the following:

• The very best lithium ion batteries have a top efficiency of only up to 78% within 3500 cycles.  That means, that when they are new or functioning within specifications, 22% of the energy that goes into charging the battery is lost. Every charge wastes 22% of the electricity for charging. AT BEST!  
• More energy is lost in the transmission of electricity to the charging station
• Even more energy is lost in the creation of the energy needed for charging EV's.

Thirty years ago when I was Republican I was against electric vehicles.

Even ten years ago, I didn’t think they’d ever replace gasoline cars.

And like each and every other “conservative” position I’ve ever held, in my entire life, wouldn’t you know it I was dead wrong about electric vehicles.

What changed my mind was electrics use three cents per mile “fuel” costs opposed to fifteen cents or more per mile for gasoline cars.

With a five times or ore cheaper cost to run, the MAGA Republicans couldn’t stop electrics if they could.  Simple economics has doomed the gasoline car, and it’s doom is within ten years, maybe less.

How did that happen?

First and foremost, those car batteries are fully ten times cheaper (and far better) than a decade ago.

Second, I’m honestly shocked to discover wind turbines produce juice for two cents a kilowatt (that sells retail for ten cents) so there will be more than enough electricity to charge the electrics.

And third, I’d not considered it, but a simple electric motor hung on an axle not only eliminates an expensive, complicated gas engine and transmission, the electric has two or three times more power, and is vastly more efficient.
 
—-
Energy efficiency refers to the amount of energy from the fuel source that is converted into actual energy for powering the wheels of a vehicle. AEVs like offerings from Tesla are far more efficient than conventional gas-powered vehicles: AEV batteries convert 59 to 62 percent of energy into vehicle movement while gas powered vehicles only convert between 17 and 21 percent. This means that charging an AEV’s battery puts more towards actually powering the vehicle than filling a gas tank.
—-

I should have known better than to side with folks who still wonder if Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery.

I keep hoping that just one conservative talking point is true, but they never are.
 

sootedupCyndi » 27 Jun 2023, 12:27 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 12:27 pm

hey? Have you seen the pics of the acres of solar panels too? looks real nice.   yup pretty. All arssholes.

A lot of those in NC

Bruce » 27 Jun 2023, 1:07 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 1:07 pm

Thirty years ago when I was Republican I was against electric vehicles.

Even ten years ago, I didn’t think they’d ever replace gasoline cars.

And like each and every other “conservative” position I’ve ever held, in my entire life, wouldn’t you know it I was dead wrong about electric vehicles.

What changed my mind was electrics use three cents per mile “fuel” costs opposed to fifteen cents or more per mile for gasoline cars.

With a five times or ore cheaper cost to run, the MAGA Republicans couldn’t stop electrics if they could.  Simple economics has doomed the gasoline car, and it’s doom is within ten years, maybe less.

How did that happen?

First and foremost, those car batteries are fully ten times cheaper (and far better) than a decade ago.

Second, I’m honestly shocked to discover wind turbines produce juice for two cents a kilowatt (that sells retail for ten cents) so there will be more than enough electricity to charge the electrics.

And third, I’d not considered it, but a simple electric motor hung on an axle not only eliminates an expensive, complicated gas engine and transmission, the electric has two or three times more power, and is vastly more efficient.
 
—-
Energy efficiency refers to the amount of energy from the fuel source that is converted into actual energy for powering the wheels of a vehicle. AEVs like offerings from Tesla are far more efficient than conventional gas-powered vehicles: AEV batteries convert 59 to 62 percent of energy into vehicle movement while gas powered vehicles only convert between 17 and 21 percent. This means that charging an AEV’s battery puts more towards actually powering the vehicle than filling a gas tank.
—-

I should have known better than to side with folks who still wonder if Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery.

I keep hoping that just one conservative talking point is true, but they never are.
 

You make a load of assumptions there.  I was just pointing out some of the inefficiencies of electric vehicles.  As for wind turbines - they are ridiculously inefficient, but I'll save that discussion for another topic.

I am not innately against electric vehicles. I just think the battery technology still isn't there.  We can't rely on rare-earth metals to make disposable batteries. But, I don't think we have to either.  I think we will eventually find chemical and metallurgic compounds which are made of more abundant materials for batteries. A battery is simply a device that stores chemical energy for later conversion to electrical energy.  I have no doubt that there is some compound that can be developed from relatively cheap materials to make cheaper, more efficient batteries.  When that day comes, you are right, there will be no stopping EV's. Gasoline vehicles will go the way of Buggy Whips and Stanley Steamers.
 

roadkill » 26 Jun 2023, 11:47 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2023, 11:47 am

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rNFgHvC_OkE

Roads will last half as long...oh, and how long before they outlaw bituminous?   
 

ROG62 » 27 Jun 2023, 2:00 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 2:00 pm

Roads will last half as long...oh, and how long before they outlaw bituminous? 

What will the EVers do without it.     

sootedupCyndi » 27 Jun 2023, 12:30 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 12:30 pm

I know! and they may do anything.. to distract. Very dangerous time to live.
hang on to your hat! The next two years are gonna be rocky.

I have my seat belt on.     

Skans » 26 Jun 2023, 3:56 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2023, 3:56 pm

Of course they do.  All the energy that goes into the "battery" has to come from somewhere - i.e. burning some kind of fuel to make the electric turbine turn.

I used to make the same argument against electric cars.

The car has no emissions, but a hundred miles away there is a smokestack billowing coal smoke into the air.

But like every other conservative idea I’ve ever supported in my entire life, I was wrong about that, too.

it was my fault. I should have stopped and thought about it more carefully.  Any time you agree with a Fox News talking point, you’re certain to be wrong.

The first place I erred was the electric is about 60% efficient and the gas car 20% efficient.

Which means even if coal is burned to generate the juice, there’s much less fuel used, on the order of three times less fuel.  And in actual practice the electric delivers about a five times cost advantage over gasoline, because the electrics are engineered for maximum range. 

And then, I didn’t consider that like gas cars, the vast majority of electrics will be parked from evening until dawn in a garage or driveway.  The electrics will be charged up mostly during off peak power generation times.
 
At night electricity gets cheap.  The Natgas plants go offline, leaving nuclear, hydro, and wind to feed the grid.

Unlike most Dems I’m a global warning atheist (a skeptic has doubts) and I don’t care what the emissions of anything are.

But that’s a minority opinion and fewer emissions are desirable.  I might be wrong, again.



 

sootedupCyndi » 27 Jun 2023, 11:22 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 11:22 am

Right now i own my gas car.
pay attention.
gas goes up a buck a gallon? OK
i get forced to go out and buy a new EV at what cost.
I have a Huge monthly payment.
anyone good at math?
How many years would it take for me to see it saving me money?
I could buy a hell of alot of gas- for what ONE payment would cost. I could bath in it.
??????

Me too. My cars are paid for. If gas costs too much I just don't do a lot of driving.

michaelf » 27 Jun 2023, 2:44 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 2:44 pm

Me too. My cars are paid for. If gas costs too much I just don't do a lot of driving.

I couldn't afford it anyway- a new ev!
The problem with these LOONS! They have everything - one fit all mentality!
kind of like catch ... take mass transit or a bus- yea right!
vote them out and leave us ALONE! there's none near us.! I am FED UP!
 

Bruce » 26 Jun 2023, 12:17 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2023, 12:17 pm

The blissful ignorance of MAGA Republicans as to why them there Demorats buy them there lectric cars is something that makes me almost want hang my head in shame I ever held up a sign for Ronald Reagan. Surely we were not such slaves of ignorance then.

Today, this minute, not next year, an electric vehicle costs about three cents a mile to run:

—-
The national average cost of electricity is 10 cents per kWh and 11.7 cents per kWh for residential use. For further comparison, see Idaho National Laboratory’s Advanced Vehicle Testing graph of the energy cost per mile for electric-powered and gasoline-fueled vehicles.

For example, at 10 cents per kWh, an electric vehicle with an efficiency of 3 miles per kWh would have an energy cost of about 3.3 cents per mile. In comparison, a gas-powered vehicle that gets 22 miles per gallon at a fuel cost of $3.50 per gallon would have an energy cost of 15.9 cents per mile
—

Not only is an EV fully five times per mile cheaper to run, it has no gasoline motor or transmission to service or eventually junk because they fail.

Little Republican Johnny was taught to read by the same teachers in the same schools as the rest of us.

He’s not stupid, he’s stubborn.

He refuses to read anything he disagrees with.

Might be some Deep State plot by Dr Fauci, you know?.

Links?

here's the deal...cost to own is what's important...KBB and the like factor in ALL aspects when doling out consumer information...you're being nothing short of disingenuous...
 

Bruce » 26 Jun 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2023, 12:31 pm

My Republican friends hated LED light bulbs.

Now they won’t buy anything else.

EV batteries are ten times cheaper than a decade ago.

In ten more years those batteries will be many times yet again cheaper.

By then Republicans will forget they ever didn’t like running their cars for three cents a mile.

And nobody will want, a gasoline car.

Lithium batteries have been around for decades...you're doing nothing but speculating on future costs...
 

Bruce » 27 Jun 2023, 10:41 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 10:41 am

Do you realize nobody is going to really give a damn, with operating costs at three cents a mile?

Over 90% of the lead acid car batteries today are recycled, and so will EV batteries.

Not even the most MAGA Republican is going to want to buy anything but electrics in less than ten years.

EVs have one disadvantage.  They have no more range than my father’s 1965 Galaxie 500, unless you pay extra.

Not only do they cost five times or more less to run, horsepower ratings of a thousand horsepower will be common.

Read all about it, from General Motors

https://www.gm.com/electric-vehicles#:~ ... %20future.

And Ford

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/ford/

They'll even peddle them on Fox News.

HP ratings are differently calculated...
 

sootedupCyndi » 27 Jun 2023, 3:10 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jun 2023, 3:10 pm

I couldn't afford it anyway- a new ev!
The problem with these LOONS! They have everything - one fit all mentality!
kind of like catch ... take mass transit or a bus- yea right!
vote them out and leave us ALONE! there's none near us.! I am FED UP!

Yes they think they know what's best for you and your money.