Liberal Forum
Archive
‹
Political Chat Rooms
‹
No Holds Barred Political Forum
‹
St Louis to outlaw legal machine guns
St Louis to outlaw legal machine guns
By Bruce
22 Aug 2023 5:37 pm in No Holds Barred Political Forum
23 Aug 2023 5:58 pm
Actually, that's a good question. Technically, I believe there are. In fact, most "M16's" in the NFA registry are actually full-auto AR-15's, because they are conversions. I'd have to look at a Form 3 or 4 for a registered AR/M16 and see if it retained its AR designation - I bet these guns do. BATFE is very picky in how these guns are described on their registration/transfer forms.golfboy » 23 Aug 2023, 5:51 pm » wrote: ↑ That's what they produce today.
In fact, I don't believe there is any such thing as a fully automatic AR-15.
23 Aug 2023 5:59 pm
Well, the Dems said that about Roe v. Wade too.
23 Aug 2023 5:59 pm
Exactly my point.
23 Aug 2023 6:16 pm
23 Aug 2023 6:22 pm
I believe the military designation is an M-4, which can be a self fire or a semi auto.Skans » 23 Aug 2023, 5:58 pm » wrote: ↑ Actually, that's a good question. Technically, I believe there are. In fact, most "M16's" in the NFA registry are actually full-auto AR-15's, because they are conversions. I'd have to look at a Form 3 or 4 for a registered AR/M16 and see if it retained its AR designation - I bet these guns do. BATFE is very picky in how these guns are described on their registration/transfer forms.
I have a Bushmaster Patrolman carbine that's stamped M-4 A2 on the receiver, with the A2 meaning it has a fixed carry handle.
Bushmaster's civilian designation is XM-15, and it's stamped on there as well, identifying the rifle as a semi auto.
Bushmaster was making rifle for the military at the time so I believe that all the uppers off the line at the time got the M4 stamp, and the civilian versions had the XM stamp added after the fact.
No where on the rifle does it say "AR" either. It is stamped as being chambered in 5.56/.223 as well, and not one or the other.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
23 Aug 2023 6:35 pm
Well, it's a bit more complex than that. The M-4 is the newer version of the M16. There are no actual M4's in the NFA registry, because they would have all been made post-86. The military's M-4 has a selector for semi-auto and burst. Some, I hear, may still have full-auto. But, this has more to do with the fire control components than the M-4 configuration. The biggest difference between the M-4 and the M16 are the feed-ramps (bullet-guide) cuts in the barrel extension and upper receiver. Here's a good photo to show how the older M16 barrels don't properly mate up with newer M4 upper receivers. Newer AR's now universally use the M4 barrels, barrel extensions and upper receivers.RedheadedStranger » 23 Aug 2023, 6:22 pm » wrote: ↑ I believe the military designation is an M-4, which can be a self fire or a semi auto.
Look at the "not correct" photo, do you see the lip where the barrel extension slightly overhangs the M4 receiver? This will cause the nose of the bullet to jam and not feed properly. This is why you can't use a an older government profile M16 barrel (meant to go with a true A1 or A2 upper) on an M4 upper receiver.
The fixed A2 carry handle is just a holdover from the old A2 upper receivers - pre M4. But, they are still (I believe) M4 receivers. It's all about the two dimple cuts in the M4 receiver as opposed to no cuts in a true A2 Upper.I have a Bushmaster Patrolman carbine that's stamped M-4 A2 on the receiver, with the A2 meaning it has a fixed carry handle.
Bushmaster's civilian designation is XM-15, and it's stamped on there as well, identifying the rifle as a semi auto.
Bushmaster was making rifle for the military at the time so I believe that all the uppers off the line at the time got the M4 stamp, and the civilian versions had the XM stamp added after the fact.
No where on the rifle does it say "AR" either. It is stamped as being chambered in 5.56/.223 as well, and not one
All M16's and AR's could always shoot both 5.56 and .223. It's more about the chamber pressure than the dimension of the cartridges - where there is no significant difference. In fact, you will often see people using "Wilde" barrels in their builds, which is really just a fancy way to let civilians know it can safely chamber both 5.56 and .223.
23 Aug 2023 9:49 pm
My AR is a generic Red Star upper with Anderson lower and is the scrape the bottom of the barrel cheap as they come version.
But it has a stainless 20” 5.56 NATO bull barrel and is varmint rifle accurate, as is out of the box.
Our troubles are an 18 year old city kid who has never touched a rifle can buy one for less than his iPhone cost and walk out the door in fifteen minutes tops.
The same shops sell 30 round mags and boxes of 200 soft points and cheap tactical vests.
Then, if he wants to go out like Clyde Barrow he walks in a school and murders maybe 20 kids.
There are three ways to cut that **** out.
1. Outlaw all 25 million like Trump did bump stocks. Turn them in by X day or you are a felon.
2. Register and tax them as NFA machine guns, with or without compensation for turn ins, and with or without a safe storage grandfather clause.
3. Do nothing.
I prefer doing nothing but they never ask me, you know?
But the year liberals regain a majority of SCOTUS then Heller joins Roe v Wade in the dustbin of history,
I took mine all apart and except for the forward assist, in a thousand years nobody could design a much easier rifle to manufacture and service. Mine is 100% reliable.
They won’t wear out, any more than my 1908 LC Smith has in a hundred years.
But it has a stainless 20” 5.56 NATO bull barrel and is varmint rifle accurate, as is out of the box.
Our troubles are an 18 year old city kid who has never touched a rifle can buy one for less than his iPhone cost and walk out the door in fifteen minutes tops.
The same shops sell 30 round mags and boxes of 200 soft points and cheap tactical vests.
Then, if he wants to go out like Clyde Barrow he walks in a school and murders maybe 20 kids.
There are three ways to cut that **** out.
1. Outlaw all 25 million like Trump did bump stocks. Turn them in by X day or you are a felon.
2. Register and tax them as NFA machine guns, with or without compensation for turn ins, and with or without a safe storage grandfather clause.
3. Do nothing.
I prefer doing nothing but they never ask me, you know?
But the year liberals regain a majority of SCOTUS then Heller joins Roe v Wade in the dustbin of history,
I took mine all apart and except for the forward assist, in a thousand years nobody could design a much easier rifle to manufacture and service. Mine is 100% reliable.
They won’t wear out, any more than my 1908 LC Smith has in a hundred years.
23 Aug 2023 9:53 pm
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime”
LAVRENTIY BERIA
24 Aug 2023 8:31 am
The AR platform of rifles is unique and noteworthy - not because they are the most accurate, most rugged, best made semi-auto rifles ever designed, but as you noted they are relatively easy to manufacture, super-easy to service and capable of near-infinite customization.Bruce » 23 Aug 2023, 9:49 pm » wrote: ↑ My AR is a generic Red Star upper with Anderson lower and is the scrape the bottom of the barrel cheap as they come version.
But it has a stainless 20” 5.56 NATO bull barrel and is varmint rifle accurate, as is out of the box.
Our troubles are an 18 year old city kid who has never touched a rifle can buy one for less than his iPhone cost and walk out the door in fifteen minutes tops.
The same shops sell 30 round mags and boxes of 200 soft points and cheap tactical vests.
Then, if he wants to go out like Clyde Barrow he walks in a school and murders maybe 20 kids.
There are three ways to cut that **** out.
1. Outlaw all 25 million like Trump did bump stocks. Turn them in by X day or you are a felon.
2. Register and tax them as NFA machine guns, with or without compensation for turn ins, and with or without a safe storage grandfather clause.
3. Do nothing.
I prefer doing nothing but they never ask me, you know?
But the year liberals regain a majority of SCOTUS then Heller joins Roe v Wade in the dustbin of history,
I took mine all apart and except for the forward assist, in a thousand years nobody could design a much easier rifle to manufacture and service. Mine is 100% reliable.
They won’t wear out, any more than my 1908 LC Smith has in a hundred years.
If I want a precision semi-auto, I would look to the Swiss and their SG 551 or the Sig PE57 (Sig AMT). However, truth be told, you can assemble an AR to be good enough compared to the finer quality semi-auto/auto rifles. The number of trigger-systems and other custom parts made for the AR dwarf any other platform out there. Now, the AR is used as a platform for sub-guns, pistol caliber rifles.
Some folks think the AR is a thing of beauty. I've always found them rather ugly and unsophisticated. Two hollowed out slabs of aluminum held together by 2 push-pins. A barrel held in place by a big ugly barrel nut. A non-integrated gas system pieced together. A bolt carrier with a staked-on gas key, and the weird bolt-pin cam. I find these things rather crude in design, but they work, don't they.
Anyone remember the original AR's where the gap between the lower and upper receivers was enough to rattle and see light through? They still worked just fine, but that **** really bugged me.
24 Aug 2023 8:48 am
Skans » 24 Aug 2023, 8:31 am » wrote: ↑ The AR platform of rifles is unique and noteworthy - not because they are the most accurate, most rugged, best made semi-auto rifles ever designed, but as you noted they are relatively easy to manufacture, super-easy to service and capable of near-infinite customization.
If I want a precision semi-auto, I would look to the Swiss and their SG 551 or the Sig PE57 (Sig AMT). However, truth be told, you can assemble an AR to be good enough compared to the finer quality semi-auto/auto rifles. The number of trigger-systems and other custom parts made for the AR dwarf any other platform out there. Now, the AR is used as a platform for sub-guns, pistol caliber rifles.
Some folks think the AR is a thing of beauty. I've always found them rather ugly and unsophisticated. Two hollowed out slabs of aluminum held together by 2 push-pins. A barrel held in place by a big ugly barrel nut. A non-integrated gas system pieced together. A bolt carrier with a staked-on gas key, and the weird bolt-pin cam. I find these things rather crude in design, but they work, don't they.
Anyone remember the original AR's where the gap between the lower and upper receivers was enough to rattle and see light through? They still worked just fine, but that **** really bugged me.
cruder than this?
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime”
LAVRENTIY BERIA
24 Aug 2023 8:51 am
What is that rifle? I mostly only see wood.
24 Aug 2023 9:17 am
You hear people talk about the good old days.
During the good old days, nobody I knew had a bolt action Winchester Model 70 or Remington 700 because all they could afford was a 30-30 lever action.
When I got my 1972 production $69 Winchester 94 it was a hunk of ****, although as a 14 year old kid I’d not know that until later on.
All the blue just fell off the receiver in six months, from me dry firing it. By deer season I stood out in the road and pulled the trigger on a hammer that was all the way down, about like a double action revolver and the rifle said ——
Boooooommm—
It was dangerously bad. My gunsmith said not to pull the trigger that way, and showed me the shell lifter, that looked like it was stamped from a Prince Albert can. He said be careful dry firing it, the gun was designed for five hundred shots.
I’ve shot my Red Star AR five hundred times in one afternoon and it liked it.
One more bit of firearms philosophy.
I was Elmer Kieth in my bedroom dry firing my Winchester Model 94 at running whitetail deer. I’d kill the herd of them, in my dreams.
Today, when a 14 year old kid aims the laser sight on his AR, who does he dream he is?
24 Aug 2023 1:41 pm
Sako .243 bolt action circa 1969...
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime”
LAVRENTIY BERIA
24 Aug 2023 2:24 pm
That was driving me crazy! I couldn't figure out what make that was. Sako! You know I was prepared to bug the **** out of you until you told me the make of that rifle.
That switch in the back of the receiver - not something I am used to seeing. BTW, nice rifle.
24 Aug 2023 2:50 pm
All that i will say about this is that this mayor is ambitious. Stupid but still ambitious. I guess if you are going to take on a challenge.. go big or go home. He faces some major legal hurdles in trying to enact and have it stick for any length of time.
24 Aug 2023 4:01 pm
Kyle RittenhouseBruce » 24 Aug 2023, 9:17 am » wrote: ↑ Today, when a 14 year old kid aims the laser sight on his AR, who does he dream he is?
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
24 Aug 2023 4:08 pm
my father made it...family heirloom...every winter he would purchase the hardware along with a block of walnut and hew one out...sold them to a Canadian outfitter...I got the last one he made...Skans » 24 Aug 2023, 2:24 pm » wrote: ↑ That was driving me crazy! I couldn't figure out what make that was. Sako! You know I was prepared to bug the **** out of you until you told me the make of that rifle.
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime”
LAVRENTIY BERIA
24 Aug 2023 4:09 pm
Obviously trying to make a name for shimself...impartialobserver » 24 Aug 2023, 2:50 pm » wrote: ↑ All that i will say about this is that this mayor is ambitious. Stupid but still ambitious. I guess if you are going to take on a challenge.. go big or go home. He faces some major legal hurdles in trying to enact and have it stick for any length of time.
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime”
LAVRENTIY BERIA
24 Aug 2023 4:10 pm
that was good...
“Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime”
LAVRENTIY BERIA
24 Aug 2023 4:14 pm
I guess... even in failure, he could make enough headlines to get himself on the radar for larger political goals. "I took on the gun battle and fought bravely but lost but I will not stop fighting for the people".. I can see this in a speech.
Who is online
In total there are 4582 users online :: 12 registered, 15 bots, and 4555 guests
Registered users: Blackvegetable, Buck Naked, ROG62, RebelGator, michaelf, Beekeeper, LowIQTrash, SouthernFried, Deezer Shoove, nefarious101, sole, Huey
Bots: SiteLockSpider, ADmantX, CensysInspect, NING, DuckDuckBot, proximic, YandexBot, Googlebot, Baiduspider, CriteoBot, Mediapartners-Google, Applebot, facebookexternalhit, bingbot, curl/7