Liberal Forum

Termin8tor » 03 Apr 2017 9:20 am » wrote: So you have no use for yourself?

Cannonpointer » 04 Apr 2017 3:13 pm » wrote:Two crimes - they abused their office to spy on tRump. That's criminal.

Rice's requests to unmask the names of Trump transition officials do not vindicate Trump's own tweets from March 4 in which he accused Obama of illegally tapping Trump Tower.

There remains no evidence to support that claim.

But Rice's multiple requests to learn the identities of Trump officials discussed in intelligence reports during the transition period does highlight a longstanding concern for civil liberties advocates about U.S. surveillance programs.

The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything.

This suggests Rice's unmasking requests were likely within the law.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 4:40 pm » wrote:There is no evidence that they abused their office to spy on Trump.

This is what one of Clem's own sources, Eli Lake said.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 4:40 pm » wrote: There is no evidence that they abused their office to spy on Trump.

So I think that one could make a very good argument that the rules regarding unmasking should be tightened up, but right now it doesn't look like Rice acted illegally.

Susan Rice’s White House Unmasking: A Watergate-style Scandal
by ANDREW C. MCCARTHY
Her interest was not in national security but to advance the political interests of the Democratic party.
By Andrew C. McCarthy — April 4, 2017
The thing to bear in mind is that the White House does not do investigations. Not criminal investigations, not intelligence investigations.


Remember that.


Why is that so important in the context of explosive revelations that Susan Rice, President Obama’s national-security adviser, confidant, and chief dissembler, called for the “unmasking” of Trump campaign and transition officials whose identities and communications were captured in the collection of U.S. intelligence on foreign targets?


Because we’ve been told for weeks that any unmasking of people in Trump’s circle that may have occurred had two innocent explanations: (1) the FBI’s investigation of Russian meddling in the election and (2) the need to know, for purposes of understanding the communications of foreign intelligence targets, the identities of Americans incidentally intercepted or mentioned. The unmasking, Obama apologists insist, had nothing to do with targeting Trump or his people.


That won’t wash.


In general, it is the FBI that conducts investigations that bear on American citizens suspected of committing crimes or of acting as agents of foreign powers. In the matter of alleged Russian meddling, the investigative camp also includes the CIA and the NSA. All three agencies conducted a probe and issued a joint report in January. That was after Obama, despite having previously acknowledged that the Russian activity was inconsequential, suddenly made a great show of ordering an inquiry and issuing sanctions.


Consequently, if unmasking was relevant to the Russia investigation, it would have been done by those three agencies. And if it had been critical to know the identities of Americans caught up in other foreign intelligence efforts, the agencies that collect the information and conduct investigations would have unmasked it. Because they are the agencies that collect and refine intelligence “products” for the rest of the “intelligence community,” they are responsible for any unmasking; and they do it under “minimization” standards that FBI Director James Comey, in recent congressional testimony, described as “obsessive” in their determination to protect the identities and privacy of Americans.


Understand: There would have been no intelligence need for Susan Rice to ask for identities to be unmasked. If there had been a real need to reveal the identities — an intelligence need based on American interests — the unmasking would have been done by the investigating agencies.


The national-security adviser is not an investigator. She is a White House staffer. The president’s staff is a consumer of intelligence, not a generator or collector of it. If Susan Rice was unmasking Americans, it was not to fulfill an intelligence need based on American interests; it was to fulfill a political desire based on Democratic-party interests.


The FBI, CIA, and NSA generate or collect the intelligence in, essentially, three ways: conducting surveillance on suspected agents of foreign powers under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), and carrying out more-sweeping collections under two other authorities — a different provision of FISA, and a Reagan-era executive order that has been amended several times over the ensuing decades, EO 12,333....

Those three collecting agencies — FBI, CIA, and NSA — must be distinguished from other components of the government, such as the White House. Those other components, Comey elaborated, “are consumers of our products.” That is, they do not collect raw intelligence and refine it into useful reports — i.e., reports that balance informational value and required privacy protections. They read those reports and make policy recommendations based on them. White House staffers are not supposed to be in the business of controlling the content of the reports; they merely act on the reports.


Thus, Comey added, these consumers “can ask the collectors to unmask.” But the unmasking authority “resides with those who collected the information.”


Of course, the consumer doing the asking in this case was not just any government official. We’re talking about Susan Rice. This was Obama’s right hand doing the asking. If she made an unmasking “request,” do you suppose anyone at the FBI, CIA, or NSA was going to say no?


That brings us to three interesting points.


The first involves political intrusion into law enforcement — something that the White House is supposed to avoid. (You may remember that Democrats ran Bush attorney general Alberto Gonzales out of town over suspicions about it.) As I have noted repeatedly, in publishing the illegally leaked classified information about former national-security adviser Michael Flynn’s communications with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, the New York Times informs us that “Obama advisers” and “Obama officials” were up to their eyeballs in the investigation:


Obama advisers heard separately from the F.B.I. about Mr. Flynn’s conversation with Mr. Kislyak, whose calls were routinely monitored by American intelligence agencies that track Russian diplomats. The Obama advisers grew suspicious that perhaps there had been a secret deal between the incoming team and Moscow, which could violate the rarely enforced, two-century-old Logan Act barring private citizens from negotiating with foreign powers in disputes with the United States.


The Obama officials asked the F.B.I. if a quid pro quo had been discussed on the call, and the answer came back no, according to one of the officials, who like others asked not to be named discussing delicate communications. [Translation: “asked not to be named committing felony unauthorized disclosure of classified information.”] The topic of sanctions came up, they were told, but there was no deal. [Emphasis added.]


It appears very likely that Susan Rice was involved in the unmasking of Michael Flynn. Was she also monitoring the FBI’s investigation? Was she involved in the administration’s consideration of (bogus) criminal charges against Flynn? With the subsequent decision to have the FBI interrogate Flynn (or “grill” him, as the Times put it)?


The second point is that, while not a pillar of rectitude, Ms. Rice is not an idiot. Besides being shrewd, she was a highly involved, highly informed consumer of intelligence, and a key Obama political collaborator. Unlike the casual reader, she would have known who the Trump-team players were without needing to have their identities unmasked. Do you really think her purpose in demanding that names be revealed was to enhance her understanding of intelligence about the activities and intentions of foreign targets? Seriously? I’m betting it was so that others down the dissemination chain could see the names of Trump associates — names the investigating agencies that originally collected the information had determined not to unmask.


Third, and finally, let’s consider the dissemination chain Rice had in mind.


The most telling remark that former Obama deputy defense secretary Evelyn Farkas made in her now-infamous MSNBC interview was the throw-away line at the end: “That’s why you have all the leaking.”


Put this in context: Farkas had left the Obama administration in 2015, subsequently joining the presidential campaign of, yes, Hillary Clinton — Trump’s opponent. She told MSNBC that she had been encouraging her former Obama-administration colleagues and members of Congress to seek “as much information as you can” from the intelligence community.


“That’s why you have the leaking.”


To summarize: At a high level, officials like Susan Rice had names unmasked that would not ordinarily be unmasked. That information was then being pushed widely throughout the intelligence community in unmasked form . . . particularly after Obama, toward the end of his presidency, suddenly — and seemingly apropos of nothing — changed the rules so that all of the intelligence agencies (not just the collecting agencies) could have access to raw intelligence information.


As we know, the community of intelligence agencies leaks like a sieve, and the more access there is to juicy information, the more leaks there are. Meanwhile, former Obama officials and Clinton-campaign advisers, like Farkas, were pushing to get the information transferred from the intelligence community to members of Congress, geometrically increasing the likelihood of intelligence leaks.
By the way, have you noticed that there have been lots of intelligence leaks in the press?
There’s an old saying in the criminal law: The best evidence of a conspiracy is success.
The criminal law also has another good rule of thumb: Consciousness of guilt is best proved by false exculpatory statements. That’s a genre in which Susan Rice has rich experience.
Two weeks ago, she was asked in an interview about allegations by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R., Calif.) that the Obama administration had unmasked Trump-team members.
“I know nothing about this,” Rice replied. “I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that count today.”
Well, at least she didn’t blame it on a video.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... bi-cia-nsa

Termin8tor » 04 Apr 2017 4:43 pm » wrote:Seeking to be very cautious, Eli Lake used the word "yet."

Termin8tor » 04 Apr 2017 4:43 pm » wrote:And he said this is a huge scandal and will expand greatly.

Termin8tor » 03 Apr 2017 11:07 pm » wrote:Eli Lake said on Mark Levin's show that this is just the beginning, and he expects much more to come out.
Levin has said it's a huge scandal.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 4:40 pm » wrote: There is no evidence that they abused their office to spy on Trump.

This is what one of Clem's own sources, Eli Lake said.

So I think that one could make a very good argument that the rules regarding unmasking should be tightened up, but right now it doesn't look like Rice acted illegally.

The one crime we know of for sure was the leaking of Michael Flynn's name.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 4:40 pm » wrote: The one crime we know of for sure was the leaking of Michael Flynn's name.

Cannonpointer » 04 Apr 2017 5:44 pm » wrote:Your posts have been part of what more and more is being shown as a contrivance against our duly elected leader.
You've dripped and dripped and dripped - and there's no **** there, there. And I know that hurts. There, there.
You and rebel and ladd need your gaydars tweaked - your sniff tests adjusted - your **** serviced. I smelled this crap on the first post, and called it by name. Like Stephen Colbert, I listen to my gut. Facts are irrelevant - they just get in the way of knowing stuff.

Cannonpointer » 04 Apr 2017 5:44 pm » wrote:By the way, generally, only children say oopsy doopsy - just sayin'.

Termin8tor » 04 Apr 2017 2:44 pm » wrote:If Sykes is "no lefty," then why is he always on MS-LSD attacking conservatives, psycho?
I've never, EVER heard of Sykes in any conservative sources, let alone seen anything he's written.
He's a close liberal-leftist posing as a conservative, like Kevin Phillips.

Termin8tor » 04 Apr 2017 6:07 pm » wrote:How is that collapsed Russia-Trump-collaboration thing-ey going, for which there is still zero evidence?

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 6:06 pm » wrote: What I've been dripping about is the fact that many Trump associates have ties to Russia and have for some reason lied about those ties.

Couple that with the fact that our duly elected leader can't seem to ever say a negative word about someone who is a war criminal and a killer, and it raises my antennae.

But like I have said many times, I don't know if that has anything to do with collusion regarding the election, and I tend to believe that it probably has more to do with money.

Termin8tor » 04 Apr 2017 10:42 am » wrote:It is obvious that Rice was unmasking names as part of a broad effort to leak names and information to damage Trump; every leak is a felony, and her actions make her part of a criminal conspiracy.

Misty » 03 Apr 2017 5:00 pm » wrote:

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 6:06 pm » wrote: What I've been dripping about is the fact that many Trump associates have ties to Russia and have for some reason lied about those ties.
Couple that with the fact that our duly elected leader can't seem to ever say a negative word about someone who is a war criminal and a killer, and it raises my antennae.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 6:06 pm » wrote: But like I have said many times, I don't know if that has anything to do with collusion regarding the election, and I tend to believe that it probably has more to do with money.

Where did I say 'oopsy doopsy?'
I don't think I have ever said 'oopsy doopsy.'

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 6:39 pm » wrote:Crickets from Clem on this who has a whole lot to say about a whole lot of things as long as they involve Democrats.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 4:40 pm » wrote: So I think that one could make a very good argument that the rules regarding unmasking should be tightened up, but right now it doesn't look like Rice acted illegally.

Cannonpointer » 04 Apr 2017 6:52 pm » wrote:Horse ****. The unmasking wasn't caused by loose rules - it was caused by BROKEN rules - and facilitated by LOOSENED rules.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 4:40 pm » wrote: What you MEANT to say is that obama's last minute loosening of the rules is directly at fault in the matter - and you'd have been correct.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 7:04 pm » wrote: Which broken rules?

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 7:04 pm » wrote:Yeah, that's what I meant to say.
Was what Obama did illegal?

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 7:04 pm » wrote:Here's the thing.
If Obama or Susan Rice or anyone in the prior administration did something illegal, they should be held accountable.
I have no problem with that being investigated.

But I also would like the rest of the investigations to continue, and I suspect that there are some people like Clem who would like to see those go away and are conveniently using the unmasking issue as a diversion.

I say we should investigate everything and just get it all out in the open.

Misty » 04 Apr 2017 6:39 pm » wrote:Crickets from Clem on this who has a whole lot to say about a whole lot of things as long as they involve Democrats.