Liberal Forum

Huey » 08 Oct 2017 2:04 pm » wrote: Sure. Tell us what law would have prevented the shooting or the shootings you are speaking of. Keep in mind their are less than 300 homicides using RIFLES each year.

Termin8tor » 08 Oct 2017 2:16 pm » wrote: Heck, let them do something about just Democrat-run, "gun-free" Chicago.

They won't even admit their failure there.

It's always, ignore that, but pass a new law that restricts law abiding Americans' freedom.

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 11:45 am » wrote: There's only one POTUS.

Huey » 08 Oct 2017 2:18 pm » wrote: Never mind it is illegal to murder someone, shoot at them, or threaten them with a gun.

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 2:01 pm » wrote:After every mass shooting we hear the same old tired talking point that no law would have prevented it, completely ignoring the fact that every day in this country 315 people are shot and 93 of them die.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could stop some of those shootings and deaths?

On average, there is mass killing bigger than Vegas in Chicago each month
By Jack Hellner
There were 762 murders in Chicago in 2016, the most in 19 years. On average, there was mass killing – by different perps – that adds up bigger than the Las Vegas massacre each month. Where is the wall-to-wall coverage?
Chicago has very strict gun laws, with no gun shops in Chicago.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... z4udNdcYM7

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 1:43 pm » wrote: WOW!
You're not running on full thrusters, are you?

Termin8tor » 08 Oct 2017 2:29 pm » wrote:That's what Ayers did, Dim.
And anti-Americanism is widely taught in many Government Monopoly Schools, with not nearly enough taught about the country's greatness.

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 2:35 pm » wrote: Ayers ran all the schools in America?

When are you going to stop dwelling in the past and deal with the present?
Your guy is running things now, so why is anti-Americanism being widely taught in schools?

Termin8tor » 08 Oct 2017 2:28 pm » wrote: Why don't you and Democrats do something about this?

In spite of some of the nation’s strictest gun laws, Chicago has established a reputation as America’s deadliest city.

According to the FBI, roughly 60% of guns used in crimes in Illinois were from out of state.

The overwhelming number of those guns flow into Illinois from states that have much less restrictive gun laws.

Most of those out of state guns came from Indiana, which is next to Illinois.

https://www.chicagocriminallawyerblog.n ... icago.html

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 2:46 pm » wrote: Yes, the city of Chicago has very strict gun laws but people only need to take a drive over the state line to buy a gun, so the local laws are useless.
Only a federal law would address this issue.

Huey » 08 Oct 2017 2:51 pm » wrote:Federal law already states if you by a gu. In a state other than your own the sale must go thru an FFL In your own state.

Federal firearms license (FFL) holders are the only persons who can legally handle gun sales across state lines. This means that the merchant you're buying from must have an FFL, and that seller must, we repeat, must, ship the weapon directly to an FFL holder in your state

https://www.durysguns.com/news/gun-tran ... t-of-state

https://www.durysguns.com/news/gun-tran ... t-of-state

So that law is being broken

According to the FBI, roughly 60% of guns used in crimes in Illinois were from out of state.

The overwhelming number of those guns flow into Illinois from states that have much less restrictive gun laws.

Most of those out of state guns came from Indiana, which is next to Illinois.

Second place goes to Mississippi and third place goes to Wisconsin.

The FBI data suggests that there’s lots of trafficking of guns within Illinois but point out that it’s very difficult to trace those guns once they get into the state because Illinois does not require registration of guns, does not license or regulate gun dealers, doesn’t limit how many guns can be sold at one time and does not require background searches on gun sales that are not conducted at a gun show.

Indiana has really lax gun laws.

Gun dealers are required to perform a very basic background search while a vendor can sell their “private collection” to anyone at a gun show without any background search whatsoever.

So someone can buy an assault rifle at a Crown Point Indiana gun show without any background search, and drive an hour into Chicago, where assault rifles are banned.

A 2015 study by the University of Chicago suggested that only 11% of guns involved in crimes in Chicago were purchased through federally licensed gun dealers, which require background searches.

In 2014 the Chicago Police reported that roughly 60% of guns used and recovered from crime scenes between 2009 and 2013 were purchased outside of Illinois.

Exact figures are hard to pin down but it is clear that the vast majority of guns making their way to the streets of Chicago are coming from outside of Illinois.

The significance of these figures is that unless national standards are imposed, there’s no law or amount of regulation in Illinois that is going to stop guns from making their way into Chicago and being used in shootings and murders.

Instead of gun rights activists pointing to Illinois strict gun laws to argue that they don’t work, they should point to states that have lax gun laws as an example of why such stricter laws are needed to stop, or at least slow down, the rising numbers of shootings and murders in Chicago.

https://www.chicagocriminallawyerblog.n ... icago.html

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 3:05 pm » wrote: A what is being done about that?

Column - The truth — and lies — about Chicago's gun laws.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun laws in the country.

It’s time for gun lovers to stop spreading that lie.

A decade ago that was indeed a title Chicago wore proudly.

We were the only major city that still had an ordinance banning residents from keeping a handgun in their home.

The handgun ban made us the primary target of the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation, and in 2010 the U.S. Supreme Court forced Chicago to fall into line with the rest of the country.

Since then, the courts have peeled off so many layers of our once stellar gun ordinance that it’s barely recognizable.

We’re still maneuvering to keep gun stores and shooting ranges from opening in the city limits.

But the courts have ruled against us on that, too, so we know it’s just a matter of time.

Remember that old requirement that gun owners in Chicago register their firearms with the city and obtain a permit?

Well, that’s gone too.

And thanks to the Illinois General Assembly, which was pressured by the federal courts to pass a concealed carry law in 2013, people can walk the streets of Chicago with a gun attached to their waist and another strapped to their ankle.

Sorry, gun lovers, your attempts to use Chicago as a prop to bolster your claims that gun control laws do nothing to curb gun violence just don’t hold up.

New York, in fact, has stricter gun laws on the books than Chicago.

And guess what? Its homicide numbers are heading toward historic lows.

Los Angeles has some pretty tough gun laws too.

Its homicide numbers also pale compared with Chicago’s.

Those kinds of details don’t fit the conservative, pro-gun narrative, though.

To use New York as a talking point, they’d have to admit that strict gun laws might actually have an impact on homicide rates.

We don’t make excuses for our ghastly homicide numbers in Chicago. With 762 people killed last year, no one has to remind us that we have a serious gun problem.

We own it. And we have to do something about it.

But we are tired of Donald Trump and pro-gun advocates using our city to promote their political agenda.

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders dragged Chicago into the fray again on Monday when responding to a reporter’s question about gun policy in the aftermath of the mass shooting in Las Vegas.

"One of the things that we don’t want to do is try to create laws that won’t stop these types of things from happening," Sanders said at a news conference.

"I think if you look to Chicago where you had over 4,000 victims of gun-related crimes, they have the strictest gun laws in the country and that certainly hasn’t helped there.”

Sanders should listen to U.S. Rep. Robin Kelly, D-Ill., who argues that the problem is Chicago being surrounded by red states that have completely surrendered to the pro-gun lobby.

With no gun stores in Chicago and no background check loopholes for private sales, one thing is clear.

The guns being used to kill people on the streets aren’t originating in Chicago.

They’re coming from someplace else.

When politicians and others repeat that ridiculous statement about Chicago’s gun laws, it shows how out of touch they are with the problems urban areas face when it comes to gun violence.

When it comes to gun laws, big cities are only as strong as the states that border them.

And in Chicago’s case, that’s Indiana.

Thanks to Vice President Mike Pence, the former governor, Indiana has some of the weakest gun laws in the nation.

While Illinois has gone to great lengths to see that background checks are done for all gun purchases, Indiana has done the opposite.

To buy a weapon in Illinois, the owner must have a valid firearms owner’s identification card, issued by the Illinois State Police.

With no permit or license required to purchase a gun in Indiana, it is incredibly easy for a trafficker to drive across the state line, obtain a gun and use it to commit a homicide on the streets of Chicago.

Those with felony convictions commonly use straw purchases, in which they enlist someone with a clean record to purchase multiple guns and bring them into the city.

Law enforcement officials say 60 percent of the guns confiscated on the streets of Chicago come from Indiana, Wisconsin and Mississippi.

The other 40 percent come from suburban Cook County and nearby suburbs.

It’s tough, but we can try to sort out the bad apples in our own state and shut them down.

But we’re helpless when it comes to regulating Indiana, Wisconsin and Mississippi.

Congress could do something, though.

Lawmakers could pass legislation requiring universal background checks.

That would close federal loopholes on background checks at gun shows and other private sales.

Congress could also limit the number of guns that can be purchased by one person in a period of time.

And lawmakers could toughen penalties for straw purchases.

Military-style assault weapons already are banned in the city of Chicago, but in most other places in Illinois and in most other states, they can be purchased as easily as a handgun.

If Congress really wanted to stop massacres like the one in Las Vegas from occurring, lawmakers could pass a federal assault weapons ban to replace the one that expired in 2004.

The gun lovers in Washington don’t want to talk about these things, though. It’s a lot easier to just keep picking on Chicago.

Huey » 08 Oct 2017 3:15 pm » wrote: Guns ownership is severely restricted in Chicago.

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 3:21 pm » wrote: Read my last post.

Huey » 08 Oct 2017 3:24 pm » wrote:Way to edit what I said. I have read your posts. Much of what you describe is illegal already. What is your recommendation re: purchasing weapons across state lines?
That was the point I replied to.

Misty » 08 Oct 2017 3:47 pm » wrote: The laws should be uniform from state to state, IOW a federal law.
Nothing will change as long as we have this hodge podge of state laws.

Also we should reinstate the federal assault weapons ban that expired in 2004.
And before you go saying that it's your Second Amendment right to own those types of weapons, think about this.

When they wrote the Second Amendment, the founders could no more have invisioned that those types of weapons would exist, than they could have envisioned airplanes flying people around in the sky.

I have no problem with people owning a handgun for self protection, or rifles for hunting.
I also have no problem with target shooting for fun or sport.

And people can own as many muskets as they want. I don't care.[/sarcasm]

But there is no reason why people need to own guns that are only designed for killing a lot of people very quickly.

I guess you come from the school of we can't do anything about this, so we just have to accept that this is the new normal.

I refuse to accept that.