Liberal Forum

Misty » 20 Jan 2020 4:26 pm » wrote:Alan Dershowitz, 1998:

An impeachable offense "doesn't have to be a crime" if the president is "somebody who completely corrupts the office."

https://youtu.be/gpXr-sfwaDk

Alan Dershowitz, 2020:

"When you have somebody who, for example, is indicted for a crime, let's assume you have a lot of evidence but the grand jury simply indicts for something that's not a crime, and that's what happened here."

So in 1998, you didn't need a crime to impeach, but in 2020 you do.
**** hypocrite.

The crime in 98 was perjury. What's the crime in 20?

18 U.S. Code § 1505.
Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 7:42 am » wrote:

Misty » 20 Jan 2020 6:37 pm » wrote:These rules show that Moscow Mitch is trying to hide as many facts and evidence as he can from the public.
Tomorrow we will see whether Republicans in the Senate will vote for a fair trial or will participate in Moscow Mitch's sham trial and cover up.

Yes, these are the new Official Democrat Talking Point Lies, that you claim NEVER to tell.
But gosh, if this evidence is so crucial, why didn't the House do its job and get it?

Pay attention jackass.
The Senate is also going to have to vote on whether or not to admit the evidence that was already presented in the House.

The proposal also suggests that none of the evidence collected as part of the House's impeachment inquiry will be admitted automatically.

Instead, according to the text, the Senate will vote later on whether to admit any documents.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump- ... t-n1118801

WTF is that about?
A trial with no witnesses, no documents, and no evidence from the House hearings is not a trial.
It's a sham.

Cannonpointer » 20 Jan 2020 8:30 pm » wrote:

Misty » 20 Jan 2020 4:26 pm » wrote:Alan Dershowitz, 1998:
An impeachable offense "doesn't have to be a crime" if the president is "somebody who completely corrupts the office."

https://youtu.be/gpXr-sfwaDk

Alan Dershowitz, 2020:

"When you have somebody who, for example, is indicted for a crime, let's assume you have a lot of evidence but the grand jury simply indicts for something that's not a crime, and that's what happened here."

So in 1998, you didn't need a crime to impeach, but in 2020 you do.
**** hypocrite.

The crime in 98 was perjury. What's the crime in 20?

Well here's one.

One of the crimes that Roger Stone was convicted of.
Obstruction of Congress.

18 U.S. Code § 1505.
Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505

In 1998, both Lindsey Graham and Dershowitz said that you don't actually have to commit a crime to be impeached.
Both have now done a complete 180.

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 11:32 am » wrote: Pay attention jackass.
The Senate is also going to have to vote on whether or not to admit the evidence that was already presented in the House.


WTF is that about?
A trial with no witnesses, no documents, and no evidence from the House hearings is not a trial.
It's a sham.

The GOP/Nazi party is going to vote to join the coverup . They no longer CARE what is right or wrong or what is legal or illegal or about America itself they are onboard with the Trump CULT

solon » 21 Jan 2020 11:37 am » wrote:

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 11:32 am » wrote:Pay attention jackass.
The Senate is also going to have to vote on whether or not to admit the evidence that was already presented in the House.
WTF is that about?
A trial with no witnesses, no documents, and no evidence from the House hearings is not a trial.
It's a sham.

The GOP/Nazi party is going to vote to join the coverup . They no longer CARE what is right or wrong or what is legal or illegal or about America itself they are onboard with the Trump CULT

People like Clem (Termin8tor) know the trial is rigged, but they will pretend that they don't, because they are okay with it being rigged, as long as their side is doing the rigging.

That's okay because we all know that the Republicans will never vote to remove Sniffles from office, but the dirt is going to continue to come out, and they will have to carry the stench of Trump with them forever.
They will never be able to wash it off.

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 11:32 am » wrote: Pay attention jackass.
The Senate is also going to have to vote on whether or not to admit the evidence that was already presented in the House.

WTF is that about?
A trial with no witnesses, no documents, and no evidence from the House hearings is not a trial.
It's a sham.

Read the Constitution! The HOUSE does the investigation and the Senate takes the evidence they have been presented with and try the case! There is NO obligation for the Senate to ALSO do the job of the House! If THEY wanted more witnesses, THEY COULD HAVE CALLED THEM! If liberal Democrats like yourself don't like those guidelines, go and work towards getting an amendment that changes it!

Termin8tor » 20 Jan 2020 1:31 pm » wrote:

Political, the NYTimes, the Financial Times and many other publications have documented Ukraine's role, and a Ukrainian court declared that Ukraine did interfere in the 2016 election, illegally by Ukkrainian law.

You are a LIAR telling a LIE for Russian Military Intelligence AGAIN since you are a TRAITOR. I have explained why this is a LIE before. While individual Ukrainians let people KNOW about how they felt since Trump was basically advocating against Trump since Trump was basically saying they should GIVE Russia Crimea. That is NOT the top down direct attack and interference Russia did. The GOVERNMENT did not have their INTELLIGENCE agencies actively LIE to the American people PRETENDING TO BE Americans hack the DNC have their intelligence agency go to social media telling LIES for Trump and getting TRAITORS like YOU to lie FOR them. Their Ambassador wrote an op-ed. CLEARLY identifying who he was some people gave information about Manafort to someone who was asking that is NOT interference in any MEANINGFUL WAY

This is a LIE you have been telling for Russian Military Intelligence even AFTER I showed that it ORIGINATED from Russian Military Intelligence because YOU ARE A TRAITOR

And the FBI had zero reason to spy on the Trump campaign and the Trump presidency, never mind that FBI officials lied about when the spying began.

You are a LIAR and a TRAITOR and the FBI never DID spy on the Trump campaign that is a LIE you keep telling even though Horowitz investigated this VERY THING and SAID DIRECTLY under OATH that the FBI DID NOT SPY on the Trump campaign you are a LIAR and a TRAITOR

https://ctmirror.org/2019/12/11/horowitz-tells-blumenthal-there-was-no-fbi-spying-on-trump-campaign/

Horowitz tells Blumenthal there was no FBI ‘spying’ on Trump campaign
On Wednesday, Trump repeated the accusation – echoed by Attorney General William Barr.
“They spied on my campaign!,” Trump tweeted.
In his report and during his congressional testimony on Wednesday, Horowitz said that while he found significant errors and omissions by the FBI during the course of its investigation, he uncovered no evidence of spying.
Still, GOP attacks on the FBI are escalating.
“The FBI also sent multiple undercover human spies to surveil and record people associated with our campaign,” Trump said at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania Tuesday. “They’ve destroyed the lives of people that were great people, that are still great people. Their lives have been destroyed by scum, okay, by scum.”
Blumenthal asked Horowitz if “the FBI put spies in the Trump campaign.”
“I’m going to speak to the terminology used at the department that we oversee, which is ‘confidential human sources,’” Horowitz answered. “We did not find evidence that the FBI sought to place confidential human sources in the campaign or plant them inside the campaign.”
Blumenthal asked Horowitz if he agreed with the president’s statements.
“I assume you would not agree with the characterization that the agents involved in this work on the investigation of the Russian attack on our democracy were ‘scum’ would you?”
“I would not call people names like that,” Horowitz replied.
You are a LIAR you keep telling lies long after they have been debunked because you are a LIAR and a TRAITOR and your loyalty is NOT to America but to your GOD Trump and to Russiahttps://ctmirror.org/2019/12/11/horowitz-tells-blumenthal-there-was-no-fbi-spying-on-trump-campaign/
How typical that you tell a blatant lie, then censor the truth.

How typical of a TRAITOR and GUTLESS COWARD like you to keep tellint the same LIE over and over trying to weaken America for Russia they call someone else a liar because that is how sick and PATHETIC you are

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 11:47 am » wrote: People like Clem (Termin8tor) know the trial is rigged, but they will pretend that they don't, because they are okay with it being rigged, as long as their side is doing the rigging.

That's okay because we all know that the Republicans will never vote to remove Sniffles from office, but the dirt is going to continue to come out, and they will have to carry the stench of Trump with them forever.
They will never be able to wash it off.

The thing is that the far right whackadoodles like H8er and Zeets have to KNOW that if it were OBAMA who had done HALF of this they would obviously be DEMANDING impeachment as the first step before an execution, Meanwhile I KNOW that if it HAD been Obama who had done this I would be supporting impeachment

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 7:26 am » wrote:

Misty » 20 Jan 2020 6:55 pm » wrote:Neal Katyal, blah, blah

Citing a shamelss liar like Katyal, carried in the corrupt WashPost that's covering up the biggest abuse in power in US history?
You're kidding, right?

What did he lie about you gaping asshole?

Katyal and George Conway have written several opinion pieces together in the WaPo, so I guess you would call George Conway, who unlike you is a real Conservative, a shameless liar as well.

How ironic that you denigrate and disparage everyone who refuses to join the Trump cult, while supporting the man who lies every time he opens his anus shaped mouth.
And you lie as prolifically as he does.

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 11:58 am » wrote:

TerminalH8er goes with a Gish Gallup of long ago debunked LIES and abject STUPIDITY he was brainwashed with because since he is a TRAITOR and a Treason Monkey ANY LIE will do. Meahwnile He has been SPANKED by the FACTS all over this thread and since he is a GUTLESS COWARD he will NEVER address them just move on to the NEXT LIE


Right HERE you told the LIE that the Trump campaign was SPIED on by the FBI and I ShOVED THE FACTS in your face and GUTLESS COWARD you are you RUN AWAY CRYING and refuse to ADDRESS THE FACTS

ADDRESS THE FACTS or STFU you TRAITOR and GUTLESS COWARD

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 7:20 am » wrote:

Misty » 20 Jan 2020 4:44 pm » wrote:

THE GAPING ASSHOLE SAID:Here's a hint, psycho, if Biden hasn't done anything legally or ethically wrong, then nothing Nunes or Giliani have found will hurt him.
So WTF are you shrieking about?

Tell me that Sniffles constantly bleating about Hillary's emails during the campaign and shouting 'lock her up' didn't hurt her.
I dare you.

Trump talking has nothing to do with an investigation by Ukraine, Dim. If nothing is found, voters will assume he's lying, as you and the corrupt MSM claim he does so often.

As usual, you didn't answer the question.
You're such a dishonest piece of ****.
You know damn well that he used the fact that Hillary was under investigation all through his campaign to hurt her.
Meanwhile his campaign was also under investigation, but we never knew it.

Nothing was ever going to be found on Biden, because Sniffles didn't actually want them to do an investigation, he just wanted them to ANNOUNCE that they were doing one.

His own EU Ambassador testified to that under oath, and Lev Parnas had the receipts to prove it.

Which proves that he was not at all interested in corruption.
He just wanted dirt to use on Biden during the campaign.

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 7:20 am » wrote:Even the NYTimes concluded much of it was Russian disinformation.

Says Putin's favorite bot, the expert on Russian disinformation.

You keep bleating about the Steele dossier being used to steal an election, ignoring the fact that it was never released before the election and was not even released by Hillary or the DNC after the election.

So how exactly do you steal an election by NOT releasing something, you **** moron?

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:08 pm » wrote:
.

You are a LIAR and a TRAITOR it is a conpiracy theory and Russian Propaganda that is a FACT. You push it because you are a TRAITOR. Some rightwing sources are also so unethical they dont CARE it is Russian propaganda since it benefits Trump and they have joined the Trump CULT. I SHOWED you it originated from Russian Military Intelligence before and you DONT CARE because you are a TRAITOR

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-12-10/opinion-republicans-acknowledge-russian-election-interference-so-why-are-they-so-irrational-about-ukraine

To make the case, the Ukraine conspiracy theorists take a handful of anecdotes about individual Ukrainians and insinuate or insist this thin gruel amounts to something as sinister as the Russian effort. While the effort is a propaganda gift for Russian President Vladimir Putin, they’re pushing this piffle to show they’ve got the president’s back amid the impeachment drama. They’re trying to legitimize Trump’s pressure campaign on Ukraine, but it takes some huge leaps of faith.


Trump isn’t pushing this canard because it’s Russian propaganda, but because it’s Trumpian propaganda. He detests the fact that everyone, starting with the CIA and continuing through Robert S. Mueller III, has confirmed Russia’s interference on his behalf because he thinks it robs glory from his victory. It’s his “Achilles’ heel” his former aide Hope Hicks told the FBI in recently released interview notes.




https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/us/politics/ukraine-russia-interference.htmlhttps://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/473259-gop-fantasies-about-ukrainian-election-interference-blow-up-trumpsGOP fantasies about Ukrainian election 'interference' blow up Trump's impeachment defense
Republicans continue to deflect from President Trump
’s impeachable conduct by claiming that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 U.S. election. Like a litany of right-wing conspiracy theories – from absurd allegations of Obama administration “spying” on Trump to blatant falsehoods regarding the origins of the FBI’s counterintelligence probe of his campaign – a closer look at the GOP’s Ukrainian “interference” claims shows them to be little more than fact-starved feats of mental and verbal gymnastics.
For starters, an exhaustive 2017
investigation by the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee found
no evidence of a nefarious Ukrainian government plot to interfere in the election. Despite their own findings, the GOP’s diversionary, conspiracy-mongering smoke screen
continues apace.


(See that the GOP LED Senate Intelligence committee investigated this VERY THING and found NO EVIDENCE)

In continually pointing to Ukrainian “interference” in the 2016 election, Republicans are
parroting Russian
propaganda intended to divert attention from Moscow’s
sweeping psychological influence
operation to
skew the 2016 election in
Trump’s favor.


Russian propaganda just the kind you TRAITORS love to push

https://www.vox.com/2019/11/25/20981661/john-kennedy-roger-wicker-ukrainian-interference-russia

Republican senators respond to impeachment hearings by pushing Russian disinformation

Republicans senators are publicly trying to gaslight people about what happened in 2016 by insisting that purported — but in reality nonexistent — Ukrainian election interference is just as concerning as what Russia did. Their aim appears to be twofold: justifying the conspiracy theories Trump tried to leverage the Ukrainian government into investigating (and that are at the heart of the House’s impeachment inquiry), and drawing into question whether Trump actually benefitted from foreign interference


Hill used her opening statement to attack Republicans for indulging in unfounded conspiracy theories. She described the Ukrainian interference notion as “a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves,” adding, “I refuse to be part of an effort to legitimize an alternative narrative that the Ukrainian government is a US adversary, and that Ukraine — not Russia — attacked us in 2016.”


That is the US TOP Russia expert. YOU dont refuse to be part of Russian Propaganda though DO YOU TRATOR?

You are a TRAITOR address the FACTS or STFU you GUTLESS COWARD and TRAITOR

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:16 pm » wrote:

Misty » 20 Jan 2020 7:49 pm » wrote:Look at this lying piece of ****.
He **** blocked Bolton and everyone else from testifying in the House hearings and now he says that Democrats didn't want them?
The lying and gaslighting never **** stops.

What he said is factually correct, wackjob.
It was the House's job to put its case together, subpoenaing witnesses and evidence if necessary.
They didn't do their job, so tough ****.

No, it is NOT factually correct to say that the House didn't want to hear from Bolton, you **** degenerate liar.

He blocked everyone from testifying by invoking 'absolute immunity' which is not even a real thing.
There is no such privilege.

If not for the courage of people like Lt.Colonel Vindman, Maria Yovanovitch and Fiona Hill who defied his order not to testify, the House hearings would have had no witnesses at all.

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:05 pm » wrote:

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 11:57 am » wrote:

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 7:26 am » wrote:Citing a shamelss liar like Katyal, carried in the corrupt WashPost that's covering up the biggest abuse in power in US history?
You're kidding, right?

What did he lie about you gaping asshole?

I've seen him for a year or two on MS-LSD, and it seems like every time he opens his mouth he's lying.

It seems like every time he opens his mouth he's lying?
Well that proves it then, huh?
You **** jackass.

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:05 pm » wrote:I'm almost sure he was an enthusiastic participant in the ridiculous Russian Collusion Hoax and every scam since.

You're almost sure that he was an enthusiastic participant in the ridiculous Russian Collusion Hoax and every scam since.
More iron clad proof.

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:05 pm » wrote:I get literally sick to my stomach at their dishonest guests and their Beltway ****.

I get literally sick to my stomach whenever you make false accusations like that against honest people and smear anyone who has refused to join the cult headed by Sniffles the Adderall Snorting Clown.

You are part of the only 35% of this country that will follow this con-artist/grifter off a cliff.
The rest of us know better.

TerminalH8er is the most INEPT Russian Troll ever. Sure he is stubborn but he has no game. He posts the most pathetic stupid and easily debunked LIES imaginable. He is smart enough to know it would be a WASTE OF TIME to try to substantaite it but when it is EASILY slapped away with the FACTS he just ignores those facts and tells the LIES AGAIN. Whether he gets his coffee in St Petersburg or Skopje and is a PAID Russian troll or in bumfukt Alabama and is just an easily brainwahsed TRAITOR is hardly relevant all he does is tell LIES to weaken America and only the most ignorant morons imaginable could possibly take him seriously

Zeets2 » 21 Jan 2020 11:52 am » wrote:

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 11:32 am » wrote:Pay attention jackass.
The Senate is also going to have to vote on whether or not to admit the evidence that was already presented in the House.

WTF is that about?
A trial with no witnesses, no documents, and no evidence from the House hearings is not a trial.
It's a sham.

Read the Constitution! The HOUSE does the investigation and the Senate takes the evidence they have been presented with and try the case! There is NO obligation for the Senate to ALSO do the job of the House! If THEY wanted more witnesses, THEY COULD HAVE CALLED THEM! If liberal Democrats like yourself don't like those guidelines, go and work towards getting an amendment that changes it!

You obviously haven't read the rules proposed by Moscow Mitch, or you don't understand them.

His rules say that none of the evidence collected as part the House's impeachment inquiry will be admitted automatically.

Instead, the Senate will vote later on whether to admit any documents.

That is ****, and has never been done before.
Any evidence collected by the House should be automatically admitted in the Senate trial.

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 12:58 pm » wrote: You obviously haven't read the rules proposed by Moscow Mitch, or you don't understand them.

His rules say that none of the evidence collected as part the House's impeachment inquiry will be admitted automatically.

Instead, the Senate will vote later on whether to admit any documents.

That is ****, and has never been done before.
Any evidence collected by the House should be automatically admitted in the Senate trial.

Zeets is a MORON who never knows what he is talking about of course the Constitution says NO SUCH THING Zeets is just a brainwashed moron repeating what he WISHES were true. The Constitution says the House shall have sole power of impeachment it does NOT say they will do the investigation. When the Nison and Clinton impeachments were ongoing the JUSTICE DEPT did the investigation the House had to do it this time since Barr has DISGRACED the justice dept and turned it into a partisan coverup and hitjob agency for Trump. the founding fathers didnt even INVISION a man like Trump with NO integrity and a hankering to be a DICTATOR who would just STONEWALL Congresses constittuional obligation to do oversight and then have a justice dept that would HELP him be so criminally and blatantly corrupt

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 1:07 pm » wrote:

Once again TRAITOR you tell a bunch of STUPID LIES that I have ALREADY COMPLETELY DEBUNKED with FACTS and since you are both a TRAITOR and a GUTLESS COWARD you just run away from the FACTS crying

ADDRESS the FACTS or STFU you GUTLESS COWARD and TRAITOR

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:19 pm » wrote:

Misty » 21 Jan 2020 11:21 am » wrote:18 U.S. Code § 1505.
Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1505

That's stunningly stupid.
Roger Stone isn't the president of the country and cannot express Executive Privilege.
Trump can, and if House Dems wanted testimony or documents, they should have gone to SCOTUS to get it.

Except Trump never invoked Executive Privilege you jackass.

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:19 pm » wrote:But they would have lost on almost every matter, if not all.

You mean like Nixon did?

Termin8tor » 21 Jan 2020 12:19 pm » wrote:You cannot charge any president for protecting his privileges from a corrupt Congress. Trying is a **** joke.

Once again, he never invoked EP.
His lawyers argued that there was some kind of a non-existent privilege called 'absolute immunity.'

And FYI, you cannot hide behind EP to cover up a crime.
Ask Tricky Dick.

United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683 (1974), was a landmark United States Supreme Court case that resulted in a unanimous decision against President Richard Nixon, ordering him to deliver tape recordings and other subpoenaed materials to a federal district court.

Issued on July 24, 1974, the decision was important to the late stages of the Watergate scandal, when there was an ongoing impeachment process against Richard Nixon.

United States v. Nixon is considered a crucial precedent limiting the power of any U.S. president to claim executive privilege.
[......]
The Court held that a claim of Presidential privilege as to materials subpoenaed for use in a criminal trial cannot override the needs of the judicial process if that claim is based, not on the ground that military or diplomatic secrets are implicated, but merely on the ground of a generalized interest in confidentiality.

Nixon was then ordered to deliver the subpoenaed materials to the District Court.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon