Liberal Forum

solon » 16 Feb 2020 12:52 pm » wrote: You are a LIAR. I PUMMELLED you with the NARRATIVE

Three simple words, ****: Quid pro quo.

Obama has had ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD to cosign the narrative that Joe Biden was acting on his orders - and...

Cannonpointer » 16 Feb 2020 12:59 pm » wrote: Three simple words, ****: Quid pro quo.

Obama has had ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD to cosign the narrative that Joe Biden was acting on his orders - and...

Childish PUNK cant ADDRESS THE FACTS. CHILDISH PUNK tries to change the subject to something ELSE I could easily PUNK him on but I am too BORED to watch the Treason Monkey TWO STEP today so GFY PUNK

solon » 16 Feb 2020 1:01 pm » wrote: Childish PUNK cant ADDRESS THE FACTS. CHILDISH PUNK tries to change the subject to something ELSE I could easily PUNK him on but I am too BORED to watch the Treason Monkey TWO STEP today so GFY PUNK

You have no facts. You have narrative from paid think tanks whose job it is to create narrative. I've exposed your tripe before, showing anyone interested that your claims were sourced back to paid think tanks, you stupid, light weight trollop.

You are the clem of the left, but he uses Heritage and CATO - and he ALSO insists they are stating "facts," you ditzy broad.

Cannonpointer » 16 Feb 2020 1:06 pm » wrote: .

You are a LIAR and you know it. I posted FACTS which you have NO CHANCE of addressing and my sources were mainstream and legitimate and you cANNOT SHOW otherwise. You are A LIAR who thinks CALLING FACTS you cannot address NARRATIVE negates them when you CANNOT SHOW they are not true. You are a LIAR. I SHOW with FACTS and citations from LEGITIMATE SOURCES that Clem is a LIAR. YOU just think saying SSSSSSKKKKKKWWWWWWAAAAAKKKKK narrative SSSSKKKKWWWAAAAAAKK narrative makes FACTS YOU DONT LIKE go away. It does NOT everyone reading the posts I made KNOW you are a LIAR and A CHILDISH PUNK who has no POSSIBILITY of addressing the FACTS so you just use the Treason Monkey two step tactic of pretending if you just say LALALALALALA I can't hear you it means you win the argument. You are PATHETIC and you always will be.I PUNKED you WITH FACTS you cannot address

solon » 16 Feb 2020 2:28 pm » wrote: You are a LIAR and you know it. I posted FACTS

How many links were in your post to back your facts, ignorant slut?

None.

Rendering it narrative.

You don't know the difference between hard news and think tank fodder.

Cannonpointer » 16 Feb 2020 1:06 pm » wrote: You have no facts. You have narrative from paid think tanks whose job it is to create narrative. I've exposed your tripe before, showing anyone interested that your claims were sourced back to paid think tanks, you stupid, light weight trollop.

You are the clem of the left, but he uses Heritage and CATO - and he ALSO insists they are stating "facts," you ditzy broad.

You have EXPOSED NOTHING PUNK. You have RUN FROM FACTS and think calling it NARRATIVE makes them go away

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

Without pressure from Joe Biden, European diplomats, the International Monetary Fund and other international organizations, Shokin would not have been fired, said Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder and executive director of the Anti Corruption Action Centre in Kiev.
Civil society organizations in Ukraine were pressing for his resignation," Kaleniuk said,
In July 2015, Shokin's office became mired in scandal after authorities raided homes belonging to two high-ranking prosecutors. Police seized millions of dollars worth of diamonds and cash, suggesting the pair had been taking bribes.
It became known as the "diamond prosecutors" case. Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko, who said he tried to investigate it, resigned months later, calling the prosecutor's office a "hotbed of corruption" and an "instrument of political pressure."
Shokin's office also stepped in to help Zlochevsky, the head of Burisma.
British authorities had frozen $23 million in a money-laundering probe, but Shokin's office failed to send documents British authorities needed to prosecute Zlochevsky. The case eventually unraveled and the assets were unfrozen.
In October 2015, Ukrainians staged a protest outside Poroshenko's home calling for Shokin's removal.
Besides Biden's threat over the $1 billion in aid, the International Monetary Fund threatened to delay $40 billion in aid for similar reasons.
The decision to remove Shokin "creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the Prosecutor General's Office," said Jan Tombinski, the EU's ambassador to Ukraine, in a written statement.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/sep/26/donald-trump/donald-trumps-boasts-about-former-ukrainian-prosec/

( Go ahead and explain how this PHOTO is narrative)

"A lot of people are talking about" the removal of a "very fair prosecutor" in Ukraine.




For instance, in early 2016, International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde said that "it’s hard to see how the I.M.F.-supported program can continue" unless corruption prosecutions accelerate.
This view is reflected in a Sept. 2015 speech that then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, delivered in Odessa, Ukraine (emphasis ours):
"There is one glaring problem that threatens all of the good work that regional leaders here in Odessa, in Kharkiv, in Lviv, and elsewhere are doing to improve the business climate and build a new model of government that serves the people," Pyatt said, later adding, "That obstacle is the failure of the institution of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine to successfully fight internal corruption.
One photograph she posted, from July 2015, showed a protest before the prosecutor general's office to demand Shokin resign "because of his corruption, attacks on reformers and failure to investigate corruption of Yanukivych associates." (The photograph is similar to photographs in the Associated Press database of the same event on the same date.)




https://www.axios.com/republicans-ukraine-reform-prosecutors-office-biden-11988d59-49e1-4e07-9b92-596575b9e68d.html
3 Republican senators joined a 2016 push for Ukraine to reform its prosecutor general's office and judiciary, a bipartisan letter uncovered by CNN shows, mirroring the contemporaneous work of then-Vice President Joe Biden.
Why it matters: The letter to former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko illuminates bipartisan support in the U.S. to pursue corruption reforms in the prosecutor general's office. It also undermines claims from President Trump and Republicans that Biden demanded Ukraine terminate Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin and drop its investigation into the company for which Biden's son, Hunter, sat on the board.
The letter was signed by 8 senators — 5 Democrats and 3 Republicans: Sens. Ron Johnson (Wis.), Rob Portman (Ohio) and Mark Kirk (Ill.). Kirk is no longer serving in the Senate.

SO I have shown a PHOTO of Ukrainians protesting and demanding Shokins removal. Three REPUBLICAN Senators joining FIVE Dem Senators demanding ‘CHANGES in his office’,NAMED officals withholding IMF Funds and criticism from TOP EU officials NAMED officials the Ukrainian AMBASSADOR demanding his removal those are FACTS you can CALL it narrative to run away from them if you want. Its hard to call a PHOTO narrative but being a PUNK I am sure you will TRY. These are FACTS we both KNOW you cannot address them only a MORON would think LABELLING them something makes them go away. You are WRONG and I have FLAT OUT PROVED it so GET OVER IT

I didnt post links in THAT post because I had already POSTED those links BEFORE LIAR and you KNOW it. So accept this BEATDOWN and STFU

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote: You have EXPOSED NOTHING PUNK. You have RUN FROM FACTS and think calling it NARRATIVE makes them go away

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

Here are the sources your USA Today puff piece relies on:

"But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine"

Unnamed people all. You have no comprehension of how to sustain your argument.

The only hard quote is form "Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder and executive director of the Anti Corruption Action Centre in Kiev."

In a world where the thing commonly calls itself the anti-thing, an unknown member of an agency that materialized after the fact in dispute occured is less than a leaky boat - it's no boat at all.

The puff peace you proffer ends on this indicative note: "Their assertion is contradicted by former diplomatic officials who were following the issue at the time." From start to finish, it's not journalism. It's puffery. When actual facts are in dispute, it takes more than puffery to sustain an argument.

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote: Without pressure from Joe Biden, European diplomats, the International Monetary Fund and other international organizations, Shokin would not have been fired, said Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder and executive director of the Anti Corruption Action Centre in Kiev.
Civil society organizations in Ukraine were pressing for his resignation," Kaleniuk said,
In July 2015, Shokin's office became mired in scandal after authorities raided homes belonging to two high-ranking prosecutors. Police seized millions of dollars worth of diamonds and cash, suggesting the pair had been taking bribes.
It became known as the "diamond prosecutors" case. Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko, who said he tried to investigate it, resigned months later, calling the prosecutor's office a "hotbed of corruption" and an "instrument of political pressure."
Shokin's office also stepped in to help Zlochevsky, the head of Burisma.
British authorities had frozen $23 million in a money-laundering probe, but Shokin's office failed to send documents British authorities needed to prosecute Zlochevsky. The case eventually unraveled and the assets were unfrozen.

According to this link, Shokin is one of the officials trying to fight the corruption. Quote it saying otherwise.

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote: In October 2015, Ukrainians staged a protest outside Poroshenko's home calling for Shokin's removal.
This link^ is from the Atlantic Council, a think tank paid to produce narratives. The Atlantic Councils claims are based on no reliable evidence or testimony - a bought to order circle jerk.

Unless you are willing to accept claims from CATO and Heritage, you have no right to demand others accept claims from the Atlantic Council - an organization paid for one thing only: Narratives.

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote:Besides Biden's threat over the $1 billion in aid, the International Monetary Fund threatened to delay $40 billion in aid for similar reasons.
The only things missing are names and quotes - but that's how Narrative works.

"Similar" reasons - no mention of Shokin in the link: The link does not sustain your narrative. You never quote anyone calling out Shokin - the new reform prosecutor that BIden got fired - by name. That his office was corrupt is a given - his predecessor was fired and he was installed to get rid of that corruption.




A diplomat calling for a fresh start on the heels of a government shakeup is not a position paper on said shakeup. It is not even a position - much less an official one. It's just a diplomat saying the things that diplomats say when they want to get momentum going in a new relationship with a new regime. Your link is puff. Smoke. Narrative.




More think tank narrative from the atlantic council.

It's hard to accelerate prosecutions when you have foreign coercion against reform prosecutors like Shokin, whose removal opened the flood gates for democrat dirty deeds. a sign in your photo says PYKA PYKY MOET. That means "Keep Shokin" in Ukrainian, for all you or I know. You got it - and your explanation of it - from a think tank paid to lie if the truth isn't working. Still, it's nice you got a thrill up your leg from it.


You have finally offered actual evidence - congrats. I don't trust Pyatt. I consider him a deep state Biden ally. But you have actually quoted a real official making a real utterance against Shokin. We should give you a ribbon or something.




Both links above confirm only one thing: That there was concern that the reform government follow through on its commitment to reform the chief prosecutor's office. Shokin had come into the office with a mandate to clean it up, and had reported his fired (for corruption) predecessor's office was missing case files. As he continued in his duties, an attempt was made to assassinate him. y guess is that someone was unhappy with his performance in office - and I HIGHLY DOUBT that the enemies he made were reform advocates. Reform advocates rarely resort to murder. But dirty playes DO resort to murder - and black mail of foreign governments through illegal quids pro quo.


No, you haven't. That photo comes from the Atlantic Council and we have only their word where and when it was taken and what the objective of the protest was.

Your problem is that when you report something SPECIFICALLY against Shokin, you have no named officials, and then you quote named officials, they're not saying anything to implicate Shokin, who had been in office less than a year when the congressional letter supporting reform was written. Except for the Pyatt quotes, nothing you have presented suggests that Shokin was not, as advocates of the counter narrative insist, hastily reforming the prosecutor's office, so thoroughly that his actions invited an assassination attempt and unlawful interference from pyatt buddy joey biden - whose narrative HAS NEVER BEEN ENDORSED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA. And Obama could have endorsed that narrative any time he wanted. He's leaving Biden twisting because Biden went rogue.

Cannonpointer » 16 Feb 2020 4:10 pm » wrote: Your problem is that when you report something SPECIFICALLY against Shokin, you have no named officials, and then you quote named officials, they're not saying anything to implicate Shokin, who had been in office less than a year when the congressional letter supporting reform was written. Except for the Pyatt quotes, nothing you have presented suggests that Shokin was not, as advocates of the counter narrative insist, hastily reforming the prosecutor's office, so thoroughly that his actions invited an assassination attempt and unlawful interference from pyatt buddy joey biden - whose narrative HAS NEVER BEEN ENDORSED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA. And Obama could have endorsed that narrative any time he wanted. He's leaving Biden twisting because Biden went rogue.

I dont CARE about what Obama does. He may not feel the NEED to address every rightwing conspiracy theory out there. You again are LYING. That PHOTO of the PROTEST was about SHOKIN. The EU NAMED AMbassador was addressing what SHOKIN was not doing. The AMBASSADOR to the US also named was criticising SHOKIN. The EU was withholding its aid because of SHOKIN They SPECIFICALLY criticized how SHOKIN would not help Britain when THEY froze the assets of the Ukrainian oligarch all they wanted were DOCUMENTS and he wouldnt help them at A:LL so NO you are WRONG almost ALL of that was criticisng SHOKIN. The THREE Republican Senators joined five Dem Senators to DEMAND a CHANGE in the prosecutors office while SHOKIN was running it

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 47001.html


Viktor Shokin: The inside story on Ukraine’s ‘very good’ prosecutor at centre of Trump scandal
Donald Trump said Ukraine’s former chief prosecutor was an honest, wronged man, fired after Joe Biden tried to shut down an investigation into his son’s gas company. In Kiev, Oliver Carroll speaks to people who know Viktor Shokin, and finds a different story




David Sakvarelidze was five months into a new job as Ukraine’s reformist deputy chief prosecutor when a witness came forward with intelligence that would change the course of everything.

The witness, a sand producer in the Kiev region, complained of men extorting hundreds of thousands of dollars. It took a while to persuade the man to give evidence. But when he did, and the investigation began, the trail led to two of the country’s highest-placed prosecutors.

A search of the men’s apartments revealed a scene that looked like a comic heist: bags full of cash, diamonds and other precious stones. But that was not the only incriminating evidence. Documents seized at the time indicated the men appeared to have a connection to the top prosecutor in the land, Viktor Shokin.


Police found copies of Shokin’s passports, property registration certificates and even his licence to carry firearms. One of the two men, it transpired, was Shokin’s former driver who had subsequently climbed the ranks behind his boss.

For Sakvarelidze, there were clear suspicions the two men may have been carrying out the business of the chief. But his attempts to investigate were frustrated. Soon, he faced a corruption investigation himself. At loggerheads with Shokin, he was pushed out of his job within the year.

solon » 16 Feb 2020 4:20 pm » wrote: I dont CARE about what Obama does.

You should - it is the crux of the issue.

Biden claims to have been representing Obama's wishes, and scurrilous claims are being made against him. If he was representing Obama, by ANY standard of common decency, Obama has an absolute duty to clear air.

If Biden was NOT acting properly, Obama has a number of options - one of which is to watch him - and his candidacy - twist in the breeze.

Cannonpointer » 16 Feb 2020 5:07 pm » wrote:

solon » 16 Feb 2020 4:20 pm » wrote:I dont CARE about what Obama does.

You should - it is the crux of the issue.
Biden claims to have been representing Obama's wishes, and scurrilous claims are being made against him. If he was representing Obama, by ANY standard of common decency, Obama has an absolute duty to clear air.
If Biden was NOT acting properly, Obama has a number of options - one of which is to watch him - and his candidacy - twist in the breeze.

Biden was not just carrying out Obama's wishes.
There was a long list of Western organizations, governments, and diplomats, as well as Ukrainian anti-corruption groups, that wanted to see Shokin fired.
They include the International Monetary Fund, the European Union, the U.S. government, foreign investors, and Ukrainian advocates of reform.

Termin8tor » 16 Feb 2020 10:34 am » wrote:"Gateway! Gateway!" shrieks little Miss Marxist.
Gateway didn't fawn over a con artist / criminal and recommend he run for president. Your sources did.

You actually elected a con artist/criminal.

BTW, the only reason we know who Michael Avenatti is anyway is because your Dear Leader was raw dogging a porn star right after his wife gave birth and he was illegally paying her hush money before the election.

He also paid a 25 million dollar fine before the election for defrauding people out of millions with his phony university.
But you voted for him anyway, so don't lecture me about con artists Precious.

Termin8tor » 16 Feb 2020 8:41 am » wrote:Maybe she should be indicted, professionally and personally ruined like General Stone was.

General Stone?
Roger Stone is a general?

Misty » 17 Feb 2020 2:53 pm » wrote: Biden was not just carrying out Obama's wishes.

Yes yes - I've heard the narrative. The boy scouts, NAMBA, the Nigerian Rugby Federation, the Salvation Army - ueah yeah yeah.

Why won't Obama vouch for little joey - him being the actual shot caller and all, according to your fantasy narrative? Why no talkee talkee from the boss, while little joey twists?

Termin8tor » 17 Feb 2020 3:37 pm » wrote:


.

Why are you changing the subject from how your appallingly corrupt sources fawned all over an obvious con artist?

This is the very EPITOME of irony. Since YOUR sources which we have SHOWN are JOKES do NOTHING but fawn over the CONMAN who is your GOD Trump MY GOD you are STUPID... TRAITOR

Anyone with eyes and a little common sense could see he shouldn't be trusted.

You mean TRUMP Obviously that is TRUE but Treason Monkeys are STUPID and YOU are a TRAITOR so Putin is the one YOU trust in

MY sources never made such an absurd mistake.

Your sources are extreme rightwing JOKES who no one who matters takes seriously which we have SHOWN many times TRAITOR


Then why didn't the Impeachment Clowns charge him with one single crime?

Been explained to you MANY TIMES TRAITOR every time you ran away CRYING like the GUTLESS COWARD you are then you just spew the STUPID talking point AGAIN. TRAITOR


Run, Forrest, run!

DANCE Treason Monkey DANCE since we all KNOW you are too much of a GUTLESS COWARD and too STUPID to even TRY to address any substance or the FACTS you keep running away from COWARD

Termin8tor » 18 Feb 2020 6:45 am » wrote:

Well gosh, then why didn't House Impeachment Clowns mention one single crime in their bill?

It is so pathetic the way you REPEAT your stupid talking points EVERY DAY long after they have been DEBUNKED and destroyed OVER AND OVER. It is what PUNK TROLLS do repeat the lie over and over hoping to waste the time of and hopefully ANNOY the liberals that KICK YOUR *** every day. That STUPIDITY has been ANSWERED OVER AND OVER TRAITOR

Run, Forrest, run!

DANCE Treason Monkey DANCE since we both KNOW you are too STUPID and too much of a GUTLESS COWARD to even TRY to address any substance or the FACTS I have already shoved down your throat about all this


They've lost control of the long corrupt Justice Dept and FBI.

The justice dept was NOT corrupt. It is not corruption to hold Trump accountable for his BLATANT CORRUPTION and criminality it is being corrupted NOW. Barr has disgraced himself and is turning the Justice dept into a hit machine for Trumps enemies and a safe harbor for his friends and guilt or innocence dont MATTER in the equation. TRAITORS like you are cheering about it TRAITOR

Termin8tor » 19 Feb 2020 10:37 am » wrote:

And a virulent racist! You forgot that.

Yes Trump, the man who PRAISED those marching with NAZIs at Charlottesville who was SUED for not renting to blacks who once said laziness is a TRAIT in blacks called a judge born in INDIANA a Mexican and said he could not judge him because of it. The man who RETWEETED white supremacists 75 times during his campaign IS A RACIST

The most incompetent "racist' in the history of the country.

No not at all this is one thing he is NOT incompetent at. He is keeping the White supremacists and Nazis in the US quite happy

Termin8tor » 19 Feb 2020 12:47 pm » wrote:
:

Trump was dealing with a problem HE CREATED because he is ruled by talking points is too STUPID to understand issues and too LAZY to learn them and so incompetent he screws up every foreign policy issue except where he gives PUTIN whatever he wants and understands to push the Russian agenda and to weaken America. This is what Treason Monkeys LOVE about him

https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnel ... ssion=true