Liberal Forum

Why do you right wing pinheads always talk about civil service employees as if we live on another plane of existence?We are taxpayers as well, so we are 'WE THE PEOPLE'.And BTW, I also contributed a portion of my salary to my retirement fund.I guess that doesn't count.So you think I'm gaming the system? ROFL.....This little White POS Bread says I'm 'gaming the system', and he wants me to kiss his ***, because he's 'paying my retirement benefits'.I guess I just imagined that I worked in a filthy job that I hated for all those years, and I should be grateful for the generosity of people like White POS Bread for taking care of me in my golden years.Well thank you White POS Bread, and spam YOU too.Yes, the Post Office games the system by making it a federal crime for any private sector carrier to put a letter in an Americans' own mailbox.By helping itself to taxpayer money for decades.From which it can pay its slow-working employees above market wages with a far earlier retirement age and benefits far, far higher than the average American gets, let alone what a similar delivery employee gets.Yes, the accumulation of all that is gaming the system.

As he ignores all the posts that utterly refute almost all her claims in this thread.BTW, Henry, you never did respond to my point about Iran creating a nuclear arms race in the Middle East.Why not? Doesn't fit into your head?In YOUR HEAD you've refuted not only Misty but the military historian Martin Van Creveld, lol.

Why do you right wing pinheads always talk about civil service employees as if we live on another plane of existence?We are taxpayers as well, so we are 'WE THE PEOPLE'.And BTW, I also contributed a portion of my salary to my retirement fund.I guess that doesn't count.So you think I'm gaming the system? ROFLWell, let's see. If you were covered by the USPS contract:1. Public servants (there's an oxymoron for you, LOL) make ~20% more than their private counterparts.2. Public servants earn 26 vacation days after 15 year of service. (That's 5 weeks and a day much faster than private industry.) 3. Public servants that get 13 sick days/year and are acruable from year to year. Not happening in private industry.4. Prior military service counts towards your years of USPS service.Yeah, I'd say "gaming" is a good choice of words.Of course when you think of Postal Service, you only think about Letter Carriers or Window Clerks, who work days and have off weekends and holidays.You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to get your mail to you every day.My husband and I worked nights weekends and holidays, at a crappy job that we hated for decades.You got paid overtime for working weekends, shift differential for working nights, etc., We sacrificed a lot, missing out on many family events, because we had to work.Who doesn't? I spent 3 months living in Michigan by myself when I relocated, leaving my wife an two small kids back in PA.And no little POS like you is going to tell us that we don't deserve to enjoy a decent retirement.Ask my husband what it was like out on the tarmack at JFK Airport when it was 98 degrees in the summer or 15 degrees in the winter.I'd love to see you tell him to his face that he's getting something he doesn't deserve by 'gaming the system'.Big deal! I spent 2 weeks in the Weirton Steel Plant with a 120F ambient temperature running a hot mill lubricant trial and the first 8 weeks of 2008 in frozen, snow-covered Ontario. Bring your husband to Michigan and I'll tell him just that!! You think some internet whiner is going to intimidate me? LOLNow do you understand why I said that?This little White POS Bread says I'm 'gaming the system', and he wants me to kiss his ***, because he's 'paying my retirement benefits'.I guess I just imagined that I worked in a filthy job that I hated for all those years, and I should be grateful for the generosity of people like White POS Bread for taking care of me in my golden years.Well thank you White POS Bread, and **** YOU too.You should be grateful that the Federal Government kept your employer from going belly-up a hundred times. You're so inefficient that we've had to float you cash just about every year of yourt existence. If you had to survive in the real world, FedEX and UPS would have eaten your lunch and you'd all be unemployed!!

Misty: The Postal Service is an independent agency of the United States government...."Independent." Even as Post Office lobbyists desperately seek their the next bailout.They haven't gotten a bailout, have they?Once again you say they seek 'their next bailout' as if they've had many.I asked you about all those supposed bailouts once before, and this is how it went....The federal government for decades pumped money into the Post Office to keep it afloat. No, the word "bailout" wasn't used, but that's exactly what it was.Proof?Sorry, my time is more valuable than to provide proof to liars and fools.IOW, like most of the **** you post, you pulled that out of your ***. The Postal Service weaned itself away from tax subsidies between 1971 and 1983.The USPS did receive a $15 billion line of credit from the U.S. Treasury in the 1990s to help pay it's bills. It's now down to its last $3.5 billion.Hey Puss? Why don't you tell us why in 2006, the Republican lame duck Congress passed a law that required the Postal Service to pre-fund 75 years worth of it's retirement and health care obligation in a 10 year window?Now why do you suppose they would do that to the USPS, when no other government agency has been forced to do that?Think they had an agenda?If that law were repealed to allow competition, the Post Office would go belly up as private sector competitors offered Americans better, cheaper service.Keep fooling yourself Jackhole. The Post Office is required to deliver to a lot of areas at a loss, because they do not have to make a profit. If you think that FedEx or UPS is going to deliver to any area at a loss, you're nuts.And they sure as hell will not deliver a First Class letter for 44 cents.And like most government programs, it eliminated much of its competition by making it a federal crime to put anything in individual American's own mailboxes.Why do you keep saying that?What is it that you are you itching to put into people's mailboxes?You seem very anxious to get your hands on other people's mail for some reason.Remember this ridiculous plan you put forth a while back?The private sector cannot be forced to deliver mail to rural areas at a loss, like the Postal Service is obligated by law to do.People in rural areas will not be served by the private sector.Bulls***. If worse came to worse, it would be delivered in bulk to an area, divided into large parcels, and neighbors would help each other out. Wow, it'd be really tough for me to drive half a mile, pick up my mail and that of my neighbors a few times a week, right?The idea that Americans can't manage to get their own mail or help others is utterly absurd, leftist psychosis.Once again you seem very anxious to get your hands on your neighbor's mail. WTF?Neighbors will help each other out?Americans can get their own mail? ROFLMFAOOMFG! It's even funnier the second time around.

Misty: The Postal Service is an independent agency of the United States government...."Independent." Even as Post Office lobbyists desperately seek their the next bailout.They haven't gotten a bailout, have they?So that's your out, that they've tried as hard as they can, but failed?Once again you say they seek 'their next bailout' as if they've had many.I asked you about all those supposed bailouts once before, and this is how it went....IOW, like most of the **** you post, you pulled that out of your ***. The Postal Service weaned itself away from tax subsidies between 1971 and 1983.Then I'm factually correct, that for decades they did get subsidies.And as you admit, they're back again looking for a new one.Hey Puss? Why don't you tell us why in 2006, the Republican lame duck Congress passed a law that required the Postal Service to pre-fund 75 years worth of it's retirement and health care obligation in a 10 year window?Now why do you suppose they would do that to the USPS, when no other government agency has been forced to do that?Think they had an agenda?Yes, to responsibly step by step reduce federal pension obligations, and they'll do more after Obama is dumped out of office in November.If that law were repealed to allow competition, the Post Office would go belly up as private sector competitors offered Americans better, cheaper service.Keep fooling yourself Jackhole. The Post Office is required to deliver to a lot of areas at a loss, because they do not have to make a profit. If you think that FedEx or UPS is going to deliver to any area at a loss, you're nuts.And they sure as hell will not deliver a First Class letter for 44 cents.Hey moonbat, are you blind, stupid? The private sector is far cheaper and more efficient than government run institutions like the Post Office.And like most government programs, it eliminated much of its competition by making it a federal crime to put anything in individual American's own mailboxes.Why do you keep saying that?What is it that you are you itching to put into people's mailboxes?You seem very anxious to get your hands on other people's mail for some reason.Oh gosh, yet another weak attempt at a smear, even as she denies my obvious point.If private sector companies were allowed to deliver mail without having to get permission from 350 million Americans, they'd do so better and cheaper than the Post Office.Remember this ridiculous plan you put forth a while back?Bulls***. If worse came to worse, it would be delivered in bulk to an area, divided into large parcels, and neighbors would help each other out. Wow, it'd be really tough for me to drive half a mile, pick up my mail and that of my neighbors a few times a week, right?The idea that Americans can't manage to get their own mail or help others is utterly absurd, leftist psychosis.Once again you seem very anxious to get your hands on your neighbor's mail. WTF?Neighbors will help each other out?Americans can get their own mail? ROFLMFAOOMFG! It's even funnier the second time around.Oh yeah, the idea that neighbors would, gasp, help each other, that companies and individuals could manage to pick up the slack, is just crazy. Other than the fact that's happened for over 200 years.To a Socialist moonbat like you.

Yeah, I'd say "gaming" is a good choice of words.You got paid overtime for working weekends, shift differential for working nights, etc.,Shows how much you don't know.You don't get paid overtime for working weekends Bunkey. Those were regular work days for me.You have to work in the Post Office for many years before you have enough seniority to get a job with weekends off.Yes you get paid a little extra for working nights, but try working Midnight to 8:30 AM for years on end, and tell me you don't deserve a little extra.Misty: Ask my husband what it was like out on the tarmack at JFK Airport when it was 98 degrees in the summer or 15 degrees in the winter. White POS Bread: Big deal! I spent 2 weeks in the Weirton Steel Plant with a 120F ambient temperature running a hot mill lubricant trial and the first 8 weeks of 2008 in frozen, snow-covered Ontario. Pobrecito. Ten whole weeks? ROFLMy husband worked on the tarmack for 30 years, not 10 **** weeks.The difference between me and you is that I would never begrudge you a penny that you made for working hard under those lousy conditions.White POS Bread: You should be grateful that the Federal Government kept your employer from going belly-up a hundred times. You're so inefficient that we've had to float you cash just about every year of yourt existence. If you had to survive in the real world, FedEX and UPS would have eaten your lunch and you'd all be unemployed!!Once again, like Clem you display your ignorance on this subject.Maybe you can provide the proof (which Clem could not) that the Postal Service received all these supposed bailouts, in your words, 'about every year' of it's existence?White POS Bread:1. Public servants (there's an oxymoron for you, LOL) make ~20% more than their private counterparts.2. Public servants earn 26 vacation days after 15 year of service. (That's 5 weeks and a day much faster than private industry.) 3. Public servants that get 13 sick days/year and are acruable from year to year. Not happening in private industry.4. Prior military service counts towards your years of USPS service.Yeah, I'd say "gaming" is a good choice of words.I see. So in the 'Free Market' it's okay for Hedge Fund managers, Speculators or Wall Street CEO's who actually do game the system, to make obscene amounts of money, but people who do actual work, should do it for a mere pittance and be grateful at that.Free Market my ***.BTW if you think that 'public servants' have it made in the shade, there's nothing stopping you from getting one of those terrific jobs, is there?You sound a little jealous.White POS Bread: You're so inefficient that we've had to float you cash just about every year of your existence.You know I didn't run the place right? Here's how inefficient I was, Bunkey.I know you think I slept for 8 hours on the job.For years I worked on a letter sorting machine (before the days of optical scanners), where 60 letters a minute passed in front of me, and I had to key in the zipcodes on a keyboard. That's one letter every second.I did this from Midnight to 8:30 AM, with a 15 minute coffee break and a half hour (unpaid) lunch. I did that day after day, year after year for many years, most times on very little sleep.We were audited regularly, and I always managed to maintain a 99% accuracy rating.See I actually cared if people got their mail. Edited by MistyBlue, 21 February 2012 - 05:28 PM.

Once again, like Clem you display your ignorance on this subject.Maybe you can provide the proof (which Clem could not) that the Postal Service received all these supposed bailouts, in your words, 'about every year' of it's existence?And as soon as someone takes the time to document the lavish support the Post Office received over the decades, you'll ignore it.I see. So in the 'Free Market' it's okay for Hedge Fund managers, Speculators or Wall Street CEO's who actually do game the system, to make obscene amounts of money, but people who do actual work, should do it for a mere pittance and be grateful at that.Free Market my ***.It's hardly our fault Bush, Obama and Democrats supported this gaming, whereas Repubs were quite reluctant of TARP or actively opposed it.The Democrat Party is the Party of Bailouts, the Party of Wall St. favors, which is why they get the overwhelming bulk of Wall St. campaign funds.Conservative philosophy strongly opposes bailouts and corporate subsidies, which began usually from a liberal-left philosophy, much from FDR.Thanks for making our point.

MistyBlue, on 21 February 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:Once again, like Clem you display your ignorance on this subject.Maybe you can provide the proof (which Clem could not) that the Postal Service received all these supposed bailouts, in your words, 'about every year' of it's existence?And as soon as someone takes the time to document the lavish support the Post Office received over the decades, you'll ignore it.So, I guess until then you and White POS Bread are just going to keep spitting it out as if it's fact?"Independent." Even as Post Office lobbyists desperately seek their next bailout.The federal government for decades pumped money into the Post Office to keep it afloat. No, the word "bailout" wasn't used, but that's exactly what it was.You should be grateful that the Federal Government kept your employer from going belly-up a hundred times. You're so inefficient that we've had to float you cash just about every year of your existence.I did take the time Puss. I actually looked it up.I know what you and White POS Bread said, is not true.You're just parroting what you've heard from right wing pundits.

The Postal Service weaned itself away from tax subsidies between 1971 and 1983.Then I'm factually correct, that for decades they did get subsidies.First of all, from 1971 to 1983 is not decades.And second of all, before 1971 the Postal Service was a part of the cabinet. It was the United States Post Office Department.After it was reorganized in 1970, it weaned itself off of government subsidies, and became self supporting.It has not received a dime in taxpayer money in over 25 years.So please don't try and make it sound like you were factually correct when you said that the Postal Service has been: helping itself to taxpayer money for decades.Or that: The federal government for decades pumped money into the Post Office to keep it afloat.You know damn well you were not talking about BEFORE 1983.You must really think that everyone is as stupid as you are.

Hey Puss? Why don't you tell us why in 2006, the Republican lame duck Congress passed a law that required the Postal Service to pre-fund 75 years worth of it's retirement and health care obligation in a 10 year window?Now why do you suppose they would do that to the USPS, when no other government agency has been forced to do that?Think they had an agenda?Yes, to responsibly step by step reduce federal pension obligations, and they'll do more after Obama is dumped out of office in November.The Postal Service has overpaid as much as $75 billion into the federal retirement fund over the last 40 years.It's very well funded.And if it's about being responsible, then why is that something that no other public agency or private firm does?BTW Puss, if the first-class monopoly were lifted, as you are so eager to suggest, anyone and everyone can deliver anything and everything to your mailbox, including the local high school kids, illegals, or transients that any business may hire to deliver their advertisements.I can't even imagine what some of your neighbors would leave in your mailbox.Clem: ....they'll do more after Obama is dumped out of office in November.Yeah. Good luck with that. Santorum and Romney seem to be competing on who can bring more of the crazy.They're now to the right of the Taliban on women's issues.

Rick Santorums spokeswoman Alice Stewart said in a TV interview on Monday that Santorum was referring to President Barack Obamas radical Islamic policies when he said the presidents agenda was driven by phony theology but then quickly called up MSNBC after the segment aired to say she misspoke.There is a type of theological secularism when it comes to the global warmists in this country. Thats what he was referring to. He was referring to the presidents policies in terms of the radical Islamic policies the president has, Stewart said. LinkHow does one mistake the word 'Islamic' for 'environmental'?Freudian slip? ROFL VIDEO

Yeah. Good luck with that. Santorum and Romney seem to be competing on who can bring more of the crazy.They're now to the right of the Taliban on women's issues.Oh yeah, for sure.Santorum is, gasp, a Catholic!Say, wasn't Democrat JFK?Religious bigot.In the eyes of a moonbat like you, a Socialist president who violates the Constitution and related federal law is better than a practicing Catholic.

Santorum is, gasp, a Catholic!Say, wasn't Democrat JFK?You're not really comparing Santorum to JFK are you?Religious bigot.I'm a Roman Catholic too numbnuts.So I guess I'm bigoted against myself.It's delusional to think that Rick Santorum is a standard-bearer of Catholic values. Santorum is radically out of step with the teachings of the Catholic faith, when it comes to issues like torture, war, immigration, climate change, the widening gap between rich and poor and workers' rights.

Santorum is, gasp, a Catholic!Say, wasn't Democrat JFK?You're not really comparing Santorum to JFK are you?Not exactly. Santorum is a practicing Catholic. JFK was a womanizer, a liar and far less moral in his life.JFK was a weak Sunday morning Catholic.I'm a Roman Catholic too numbnuts.So I guess I'm bigoted against myself.Hey, they're your words and your wacky anti-Catholic opinions.Apply the words you used to the Pope, then call me back in the morning.It's delusional to think that Rick Santorum is a standard-bearer of Catholic values. Santorum is radically out of step with the teachings of the Catholic faith, when it comes to issues like torture, war, immigration, climate change, the widening gap between rich and poor and workers' rights.Santorum not only accepts that birth control is widely acceptable to Americans, but has voted to subsidize it by federal law.Want to run on climate change? Say, what was the vote on the Kyoto Treaty, 97-0?Want to run on Bush's national security policy? That's a loser for Dems.The gap? No, Santorum doesn't bleat Marxism, but he will run on Obama's pathetic, failed leftist economic policies, on the 12% real unemployment rate and Obama's $1.3 trillion annual deficit. Edited by RichClem, 21 February 2012 - 08:52 PM.

Stop wasting time with that Bimbo and get down here and bring me some food. You know how cranky I get when I'm hungry My Clemmy.

Shows how much you don't know.You don't get paid overtime for working weekends Bunkey. Those were regular work days for me.You have to work in the Post Office for many years before you have enough seniority to get a job with weekends off.Yes you get paid a little extra for working nights, but try working Midnight to 8:30 AM for years on end, and tell me you don't deserve a little extra.Did you get 2X for Holidays?Pobrecito. Ten whole weeks? ROFLMy husband worked on the tarmack for 30 years, not 10 **** weeks.The difference between me and you is that I would never begrudge you a penny that you made for working hard under those lousy conditions.You don't pay my salary, why should you care? But I pay YOURS, so I do care if I'm paying for a non-cempetitive dinosaur that should have been privatized a hundred years ago.Once again, like Clem you display your ignorance on this subject.Maybe you can provide the proof (which Clem could not) that the Postal Service received all these supposed bailouts, in your words, 'about every year' of it's existence?I did a little digging and will modify my comment. The USPS was directly subsidized until 1982, but still maintains its postal monopoly through regulation. That, in itself, is a type of subsidy.I see. So in the 'Free Market' it's okay for Hedge Fund managers, Speculators or Wall Street CEO's who actually do game the system, to make obscene amounts of money, but people who do actual work, should do it for a mere pittance and be grateful at that.Your making red herring arguments now. I never argued in favor of financial speculators. In fact, I'd like to see many of those hedde fund managers in jail for fraud. They certainly didn't do due diligence when they were handing $Billions to Bernie Madoff, that's for sure.Free Market my ***.BTW if you think that 'public servants' have it made in the shade, there's nothing stopping you from getting one of those terrific jobs, is there?You sound a little jealous.Two reasons why I wouldn't.1. I abhor unions.2. I couldn't stand the pay cut.You know I didn't run the place right? Here's how inefficient I was, Bunkey.I know you think I slept for 8 hours on the job.For years I worked on a letter sorting machine (before the days of optical scanners), where 60 letters a minute passed in front of me, and I had to key in the zipcodes on a keyboard. That's one letter every second.I did this from Midnight to 8:30 AM, with a 15 minute coffee break and a half hour (unpaid) lunch. I did that day after day, year after year for many years, most times on very little sleep.We were audited regularly, and I always managed to maintain a 99% accuracy rating.See I actually cared if people got their mail.Proof of how inefficient the USPS was. Look at the number of USPS centers that have closed down and the number of employees displaced by technology over the years without service getting any worse. How many years did you work before retiring?What are your benefits compared to the average private worker?

Governor Bob McDonnell [R-Virginia] has been in the news lately because of his controversial 'transvaginal ultrasound' bill.He seems to be backing away from that radical piece of legislation now, since he's vying for the Veep slot on the Republican ticket.Bob McDonnell's radical views go back a long way. When Bob McDonnell was in his mid-30s, he attended Pat Robertson`s university, where he wrote a thesis that was titled, "The Republican Party`s Vision for the Family : The Compelling Issue of the Decade."Here are a few snippets of that thesis:'Leaders', Bob McDonnell argued, 'must correct the folklore about the separation of church and state'. He called on 'every level of government to use public policy to punish cohabitators, homosexuals or fornicators'.He said, 'Man`s basic nature is inclined toward evil, when the exercise of liberty takes the shape of pornography, drug abuse or homosexuality, the government must restrain, punish and deter'.Bob McDonnell said the Supreme Court ruling in Griswold v. Connecticut which said states can`t criminalize contraception, was illogical. He then came out raging against, 'the perverted notion of liberty, that each individual should be able to live out his sexual life in the way he chooses, without interference from the state'.LinkThis guy makes Santorum look like a flaming Liberal.He doesn't believe in the separation of church and state, and he doesn't believe that we should be able to live out our sex lives without interference from the state.WTF?You can learn more about Bob McDonnell's radical religious politics, and see that his views have not really changed since then by watching this video.

Governor Bob McDonnell [R-Virginia] has been in the news lately because of his controversial 'transvaginal ultrasound' bill.Ol' radical Bob is likely going to ask that this bill be changed, I'll bet so that intravaginal ultrasounds done routinely for abortions be made available to the women.But otherwise, no mandate that they be done. Given that most women already are required to receive them before an abortion, the law wouldn't be intrusive.And generally, he's governing in a mainstream conservative way.Say, is Reverend Wright radical? Given that Obama made that moonbat his spiritual mentor, is Obama?A guide to the radical theology of the Rev. Jeremiah WrightBy Stanley KurtzPosted: Tuesday, May 13, 2008What we've got here is failure to contextualize. If nothing else, Jeremiah Wright's defenders and enablers are right about that. To fully understand those "sound bites" and "snippets" calling on God to damn America, accusing the U.S. government of intentionally spreading HIV among blacks, and blaming 9/11 on America's allegedly terrorist history and foreign policy, we do need more context.Far from exonerating Wright, however, removing those notorious sermon-segments from their endless video loop and firmly placing them in their social, political, historical, and theological context is even more damning (you'll forgive the expression) than the original YouTube videos. The full story of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's theology and church adds considerable urgency to already-pressing questions about Barack Obama's judgment in choosing this man as his mentor and pastor.Wright's defenders have portrayed Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ as "well within the mainstream of the black church" while downplaying its militancy and politicization. In fact, Wright's church is not only thoroughly politicized, but is arguably the most radical black church in the country. The substance and style of Wright's infamous remarks are part and parcel of a broader, and proudly radical, theology. The bold denunciations are not distractions or somehow beside the point, but are the culmination and justification of Wright's prophetic vocation. Even his famous "Audacity to Hope" sermon, which led to Obama's conversion and baptism, fits into this framework.A scarcely concealed, Marxist-inspired indictment of American capitalism pervades contemporary "black-liberation theology." Far from the mainstream, Trinity (and the relatively small band of other churches that share its worldview) sees itself as marginalized and radical, struggling in the face of an overwhelming rejection of its political theology by mainstream black churches.THE FOUNDERJames H. Cone (is) founder and leading light of black-liberation theology....Wright acknowledges Cone's work as the basis of Trinity's perspective, and Cone points to Trinity as the church that best exemplifies his message. Cone's 1969 book Black Theology and Black Power is the founding text of black-liberation theology, predating even much of the influential, Marxist-inspired liberation theology that swept Latin America in the 1970s. Cone's work is repeatedly echoed in Wright's sermons and statements. While Wright and Cone differ on some minor issues, Cone's theology is the first and best place to look for the intellectual context within which Wright's views took shape.Cone credits Malcolm X -- particularly his famous dismissal of Christianity as the white man's religion -- with shaking him out of his theological complacency. In Malcolm's words:1. The white man has brainwashed us black people to fasten our gaze upon a blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus! We're worshiping a Jesus that doesn't even look like us! Oh, yes! . . . The blond-haired, blue-eyed white man has taught you and me to worship a white Jesus, and to shout and sing and pray to this God that's his God, the white man's God. The white man has taught us to shout and sing and pray until we die, to wait until death, for some dreamy heaven-in-the-hereafter . . . while this white man has his milk and honey in the streets paved with golden dollars here on this earth!??In the late 1960s, Malcolm X's criticisms (Wright calls them "devastating") were adopted by the founders of the black-power movement, such as Stokely Carmichael, the Black Panthers, and Ron Karenga. Shaken by Malcolm's rejection of Christianity and taken with the movement for black power, Cone, a young theologian and initially a devout follower of Martin Luther King Jr., set out to reconcile black power with Christianity. He did not reject Malcolm's disdain for a "blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus" -- rather, he came to believe that Jesus was black, and that an authentic Christianity, grounded in Jesus's blackness, would focus with full force on black liberation. Authentic Christianity would bring radical social and political transformation and, if necessary, violent revolution in the here and now.Cone understood his task as both "radical" and "prophetic." It was radical in demanding deep transformation in the structure of society and prophetic in its determinedly angry and denunciatory tone. Black Theology and Black Power, says Cone in the book's introduction, is "written with a definite attitude, the attitude of an angry black man." Cone demands and commends anger, criticizes contemporary theologians for the "coolness" of their writings, and notes that "there is some evidence that Jesus got angry." In the book, Cone sometimes addresses or refers to whites as simply "the oppressor" or "Whitey."The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the destruction of America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the story of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with the filth of their evil." In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black Theology of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until whites begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being: 'How can we become black?'"....LIBERAL RACISTSWhile Cone asserts that blacks hate whites, he denies that this hatred is racism. Black racism, says Cone, is "a myth created by whites to ease their guilt feelings." Black hatred of whites is simply a legitimate reaction to "oppression, insult, and terror." Cone derides accusations of black racism as a mere "device of white liberals."....Well before it became a clich, Cone boldly set forth the argument for institutional racism -- the notion that "racism is so embedded in the heart of American society that few, if any, whites can free themselves from it."For Cone, the deeply racist structure of American society leaves blacks with no alternative but radical transformation or social withdrawal. So-called Christianity, as commonly practiced in the United States, is actually the racist Antichrist. "Theologically," Cone affirms, "Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.'" The false Christianity of the white-devil oppressor must be replaced by an authentic Christianity fully identified with the poor and oppressed....Cone's radicalism is evident in his categorical rejection of anything short of total social revolution.....In 1998, in anticipation of the book's 30th anniversary, the University of Chicago held a three-day conference in honor of Black Theology and Black Power. Martin Marty, the prominent University of Chicago historian of Christianity who once taught, and has lately defended, Wright, was a key sponsor of that conference....What exactly would Cone's ideal, post-revolutionary society look like? Cone has no better answer to that than did other Sixties revolutionaries, yet his fundamental social and economic perspective is Marxist. He would like to see capitalism replaced by some form of "democratic socialism." His nod to revolution in Black Theology and Black Power was not systematically Marxist, but after extended encounters with liberation theologians from Latin America in the 1970s, Cone took up Marx more seriously.In his 1982 book, My Soul Looks Back, Cone updates us: "The black church cannot remain silent regarding socialism, because such silence will be interpreted by our Third World brothers and sisters as support for the capitalistic system, which exploits the poor all over this earth." And: "We cannot continue to speak against racism without any reference to a radical change in the economic order. I do not think that racism can be eliminated as long as capitalism remains intact."The problem, says Cone, is not liberation theology but the false Christianity of middle-class blacks who are "upset with American society only because they want a larger piece of the capitalistic pie." Cone concludes: "Perhaps what we need today is to return to that 'good old-time religion' of our grandparents and combine with it a Marxist critique of society. Together black religion and Marxist philosophy may show us the way to build a completely new society.".....Although Trinity had brought on Wright with change in mind, the original congregants were not prepared for the extremes to which Wright's "Africentrism" and black-liberation theology would take him. Wright arrived in 1972, and by 1975 nearly all of the members who had originally invited him had left. In 1983 a group of particularly active and prominent members uncomfortable with Wright left Trinity and the UCC for a local Pentecostal Apostolic church.In 1978 there was trouble with the UCC as well, as a national-level official attempted to distance the church from Trinity. Says Speller, "Trinity was accused of being a cult (only three months after Jim Jones and Jonestown!) and Wright of having an 'ego problem.'" The unnamed official failed in his efforts, and after church-sponsored attempts at "reconciliation" offered an apology to Trinity.....The 1988 "Audacity to Hope" sermon invoked the privation and oppression of "black and brown" citizens in Africa and the rest of the world. To a superficial ear, the sermon may seem simply to call for aid to the world's hungry. For those attuned to Wright's theology, however, it contains a scarcely veiled attack on Western capitalism, which Wright believes is the true cause of the suffering and privation of the "black and brown" world.There are several different transcripts of the "Audacity" speech -- Wright gave it multiple times, changing it along the way, and some published versions may be toned down for general consumption. But the one included in What Makes You So Strong?, a collection of Wright speeches, attacks "white America's corporate dollars that hold and pull the purse strings of so many national black organizations." For Wright, this corporate money turns middle-class blacks into "slaves."....Wright's Cone connection remains strong. Cone's recent work argues that the crucifixion of Jesus was essentially a public lynching, with the Romans anticipating the role of modern white Americans. ......Wright's denunciation of America for bringing 9/11 on itself explicitly invokes Malcolm X's notorious claim that John F. Kennedy's assassination was a case of America's chickens coming home to roost. Wright's tale of America's long history of "terrorism" -- from our attacks on the Indians, to our attacks on Cubans in Grenada (Wright has visited Cuba three times), to our bombing of Muammar Qaddafi, to America's support for Israel's "state terrorism" -- comes straight out of Cone's historical playbook.....CONTEXTWhen we consider that nearly the whole of Wright's original congregation left, that other active members departed, and that Wright's radicalism made relations in the United Church of Christ rocky, Barack Obama's decision to stay appears all the more striking. Indeed, Blow the Trumpet in Zion is filled with attempts by Cone's followers to come to grips with their rejection by the broader black community. Nearly every sermon Wright preaches, as well as his now-infamous bulletins and church magazines, is filled with his radicalism, and it's therefore impossible not to conclude that Obama was broadly attracted to Wright's politics. Interestingly, Obama's remarks on unemployed workers' clinging to conventional religion as a sop are not at all inconsistent with Cone's or Wright's -- or for that matter Malcolm X's -- views.Obama has now attempted to distance himself from Wright, claiming to be "outraged" by the reverend's recent comments. Yet it's hard to believe that Obama heard anything in the past few weeks that he hadn't heard before. What gives outrage only now has been going on for decades.In his rejection of the path of assimilation; in his contempt for "middle-classness" and the capitalist system it sustains; in his pursuit of a separate, black Christianity and his hostility to conventional religion; in his bitter and "prophetic" denunciations of America's history, its founding icons and its anti-Qaddafi, pro-Israel foreign policy; in his conviction that the U.S. government is responsible for genocide against blacks; and in his insistence that Americans are collectively guilty for 9/11, Jeremiah Wright is a true follower of James Cone's theology of black liberation. It would seem the only thing worse than quoting Jeremiah Wright out of context is quoting him in context.-- Mr. Kurtz is a senior fellow of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.http://www.eppc.org/.../pub_detail.asp Edited by RichClem, 22 February 2012 - 07:43 PM.

You don't pay my salary, why should you care? But I pay YOURS....See this is where I stop reading your post, because if you're going to post in my thread, then you'd better bring the facts.You never paid my salary. The Postal Service gets no money from US taxpayers. It supports itself from the sale of stamps and other Postal products.You can even ask Clem. He posted a link in another thread that said:"The USPS, in addition to being essentially forbidden to earn a profit, receives no direct public funding."http://www.nationalr...bert-verbruggenYou should be grateful that the Federal Government kept your employer from going belly-up a hundred times. You're so inefficient that we've had to float you cash just about every year of yourt existence.That statement was total hogsnot.You and Clem both seem to think that you can get away with that **** here in my thread.Read back and see how Clem tried to squirm his way out of it when I called him on that ****. You do yourself a great disservice by parroting what you hear right wing pundits say, without fact checking it.That's where the title of this thread comes from. It's based on that premise that many right wingers tend to be like the Flying Monkeys from the Wizard of Oz, who blindly take their marching orders.And they never disappoint.In your eyes I seem to have committed a felony by trying to make a decent living to support my family.I really don't understand that whole attitude. I would never begrudge you or anyone else the right to make a decent living.So since you seem to have so much contempt for me, how about you stay out of my thread?How many years did you work before retiring?What are your benefits compared to the average private worker?None of your **** business.Your questions reek of envy. Edited by MistyBlue, 22 February 2012 - 07:59 PM.

How many years did you work before retiring?What are your benefits compared to the average private worker?None of your banned word business.Your questions reek of envy.Ha, ha, ha, isn't it amazing how the moonbats who bleat endlessly in support of re-distributing Other People's Money in Marxist fashion are so sensitive about how much they've bilked others for?They've got theirs, so screw you!Say Missy, why no comment on how radical Obama and his spiritual mentor are? Edited by RichClem, 22 February 2012 - 08:06 PM.