Liberal Forum

Hypocrisy...? Edited by dahur, 18 November 2012 - 10:18 PM.

Okay Ms. Blue, I'm gonna take it easy on you today, gonna tidy up a loose end here before I move on to your last couple of posts there, which are begging for a pounding.Oh good. I enjoy a good pounding. This one is put to bed, right? Or would you like to quibble over the definition of "decimated?"There are several meanings.decimated past participle, past tense of decimate Verb:1.Kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage of.2.Drastically reduce the strength or effectiveness of (something)I never took it to mean that they've been totally wiped out. Only a fool would believe that.

Benghazi Situation Now Clear: Republicans Attack Compromised (Breached?) U.S. Security One does not have to listen too carefully to understand what happened with the administration's reports on the Benghazi tragedy, and how Republicans, as they did in the outing of Valerie Plame, prioritized political gain over national security. In addition, we can now understand why the UN Ambassador, Susan Rice, as opposed to someone on the national security team, delivered the assessment on the Sunday morning yapping shows. That too, is clear. Representative Adam Schiff (D-CA) serves on the House Intelligence Committee. After being briefed in a closed-door session, Schiff reported that Rice delivered the same 'talking points' as had been provided to Congress at that time, and that it was as accurate as could be conveyed without compromising national security. Allow me to translate. To protect national security (most likely, its sources in Libya, and the existence of CIA personnel on the ground), the security agencies provided a version of events that was sufficiently murky so as to obscure what they might have learned from these sources, and why this attack occurred in the first place.And, why was the UN Ambassador, who had nothing whatsoever to do with Benghazi, chosen to deliver the message? Because anyone in the national security wing of the administration would have been in an impossible position, and so Ambassador Rice was deployed because she was outside that inner circle so she could deliver the publicly approved story as all that was known at the time. Proper, patriotic behavior would have been to mourn the deaths, rally behind the president and seek a closed-hearing to determine what remedial actions were required.Instead, the same Republicans who never held a single hearing about 9/11, to this date have never said that President Bush, Vice-President Cheney or then-National Security Adviser Condi Rice were accountable for 9/11, decided to try to make political hay from the tragedy. (And, to stop it, and further breaches of national security, the administration -- brilliantly -- provided Romney a national security briefing, conveying to him information that tied his tongue from further pursuing the matter publicly.) For his refusal to take a preferential release from prison in Hanoi, the torture he suffered, and the five years he spent there, John McCain earned -- from me, at least -- a nearly inexhaustible supply of honor and credit. So, my reaction to his failings and flailings is more one of pity and sorrow rather than anger. From someone who cannot shed his respect for you, John, a small suggestion: take the opportunity in your last years in the Senate to be a true statesman. Let the country remember you as a hero in war, and a statesman in the Senate. Not this nonsense. Not compromising U.S. national security interests to try to score a cheap political point. Leave that to the Dick Cheneys and his fellow chickenhawks, and the disgraced Darrell Issa.Not you, John. Why not insist, instead, on an investigation of Darrell Issa (R-CA) for revealing national security secrets?That would be a lot more like the John McCain who braved torture in Hanoi to uphold a Navy tradition.

Because Slow has been going around saying that Al Qaeda is about finished.decimated past participle, past tense of decimate Verb: 1.Kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage of. 2.Drastically reduce the strength or effectiveness of (something)I never took it to mean that they've been totally wiped out. Only a fool would believe that.And I never implied it to mean that I inferred from Slow that they were totally wiped out. Matter of fact, my exact words were "about finished." You questioned that, I submitted supporting evidence, in Slow's own words, mind you, not from some right wing blog.Are you ready to concede this minor point? Oh good. I enjoy a good pounding. />/> Well, then I'm your man.Gotta love double entendres.I wasn't looking for right wing websites. That's what comes up when you search for stories on the 'stand down' order.Do I have to go find this too? Oh wait, I already did, in the friggin post #2014 before your post #2015 right there. Panetta saying that nuttin could be done cause they didn't know enough. Frankly my dear, that is bull$h!t. It has been admitted that drones were overhead with real time intelligence. Sure, data travels at only about half the speed of light though electronics, but when you are talking about a firefight that goes on for 8-9 hours, that's plenty quick enough. Heap in top of that the two surviving men at that time of the four men killed in Benghazi were atop a roof at the annex and were calling in coordinates of the crew firing mortars at them, not only calling in coordinates but they actually had the mortar crew "painted" which means they ad a laser designator, a device that points a laser beam at the target that an arial asset can home in on with smart bombs/missiles. Very accurate, very tried and true. Been around for decades. So, the thing here is that there were F-16's within range at Sicily, apparently 490 miles away, 20 minutes or so with the speed of a F-16. Why weren't these scrambled the friggin second the brass got wind of all this? A C-130 Specter Gunship was also reported as available for such a mission. At the very least these assets should have been at station over Benghazi while the brass dawdled. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it sort of deal. Panetta is as inept as SecDef as McNamara was under LBJ.The story about someone giving a 'stand down' order seems to have originated on FOX news and been picked up by a bunch of right wing blogs.Also, the stand down order you are referring to is the orders issued to the two surviving men who were requesting go ahead to reengage the enemy at the consulate/mission, not regarding the military support. The CIA disputes it. They say no 'stand down' order was ever given.Well, if you are going to use Huffington as a source (post #2020) then I guess I get to use Fox as a source...http://www.foxnews.c...ck-sources-say/So now our choice is, who do we believe? FOX news or the CIA?What a choice. So, which way do you want it? We both get to use politically biased media outlets as sources or neither?

Not quite what I had in mind when I said, 'mainstream'. LOLThe DOD is saying that there was no way they could have gotten there in time to make any difference in the deaths of the four Americans.That just friggin defies common sence. Which is why I am my own source. No web site blog source, no Fox news source, a mutha fu(kin map puts the lie to your DOD crap there.Not fond of wiki but here ya go...http://en.wikipedia....ation_SigonellaRead more: http://www.politico....l#ixzz2CbWNccsPReally? Politico? Again...So now our choice is, who do we believe? FOX news or the CIA?Who you gonna believe? A friggin map and maybe a little research of your own to the capabilities and locations of The Mighty US of A's military assets or some left wing blog?Hopefully we will learn something from this tragedy.I already have.But it seems to me that some people are only interested in using it to bring down a president.I'm sure there are some, odd though that these people and I have the same questions and I want to know why these men were not backed up, why they are dead when it seems glaringly obvious to me that this should not be.I remember in 1983, 241 American servicemen were killed in Beirut under Reagan's watch, after Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger had advised the administration against stationing U.S. Marines in Lebanon.Did Dems attack Reagan after the bombing in Beirut?I don't remember that being the case.You are just friggin stuck on this "the other guy did it too" defense stuff, ain't you? Well, was there a big bru-ha-ha over Beirut about what actually happened? Did Ronaldus Reaganus go around saying that it wasn't a terrorist attack? Did he send out a minion to the Sunday shows saying that it was a donkey cart accident gone horribly wrong?

Well, if you are going to use Huffington as a source (post #2020) then I guess I get to use Fox as a source...That was an opinion piece. I wasn't using it as a source.I can't go 'round and 'round with you on this Benghazi thing.It's exhausting.teacher: I am my own source. No web site blog source, no Fox news source.....Obviously you've made up your mind that you know exactly what happened, and I'm not going to change it.I prefer to wait until the investigations run their course.I just think it's sad that this incident has become so politicized.It used to be that when Americans were attacked and killed, we all came together.I guess those days are over.

That just friggin defies common sence. Which is why I am my own source. No web site blog source, no Fox news source, a mutha fu(kin map puts the lie to your DOD crap there.Not fond of wiki but here ya go...http://en.wikipedia....ation_SigonellaReally? Politico? Again...Who you gonna believe? A friggin map and maybe a little research of your own to the capabilities and locations of The Mighty US of A's military assets or some left wing blog?I already have.I'm sure there are some, odd though that these people and I have the same questions and I want to know why these men were not backed up, why they are dead when it seems glaringly obvious to me that this should not be.You are just friggin stuck on this "the other guy did it too" defense stuff, ain't you? Well, was there a big bru-ha-ha over Beirut about what actually happened? Did Ronaldus Reaganus go around saying that it wasn't a terrorist attack? Did he send out a minion to the Sunday shows saying that it was a donkey cart accident gone horribly wrong?About that: http://www.google.co...Pjud5NFr5AdbqywDo you think you send assets like that in a similar manner as a call too 911? And they would have done what when they got there? Without HUMINT on the ground they start shooting at who? In the space of those events, and people moving with there whereabouts unknown, you have no actionable intelligence so in your estimation you have all of the information you need to make the Command decision to send in a FAST Team or assets flying blindly with no target solutions? And Reanaldus Reaganus cut and ran after the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut. And he sent out a minion to shows saying it was a donkey cart accident gone horribly wrong. http://www.google.co...E-VOTgGC1jRRpbw

Nice map.Why thank you, I added the red arrows myself.Do you think they respond to these incidents like a 911 call? This so-called "911 call" was answered by the situation room.With no actionable intelligence There was actionable intelligence. From the two(2) predetor drones overhead. Fom the live video feeds from the consulate, from the two ex-Navy seals in the firefight.they were going to do what when they got there?Circle overhead, wait, refuel... What assets do you send? ...F-16's within range at Sicily, apparently 490 miles away, 20 minutes or so with the speed of a F-16... A C-130 Specter Gunship was also reported as available for such a mission.So, you just saw a map and spaz replied without reading ALL the words?With no HUMINT on the ground, Heap in top of that the two surviving menand their whereabouts unknown atop a roof at the annexyou do what? F-16... scrambleYou shoot at who? mortar crewYep, spaz reply.

Why thank you, I added the red arrows myself.Do you think they respond to these incidents like a 911 call? This so-called "911 call" was answered by the situation room.With no actionable intelligence There was actionable intelligence. From the two(2) predetor drones overhead. Fom the live video feeds from the consulate, from the two ex-Navy seals in the firefight.they were going to do what when they got there?Circle overhead, wait, refuel... What assets do you send? So, you just saw a map and spaz replied without reading ALL the words?With no HUMINT on the ground, and their whereabouts unknown you do what? You shoot at who? Yep, spaz reply.I'm going to take it you're a very eccentric fellow and leave it at that. I'm also going to take it that the Pentagons timeline of events, and their reaction to it is accurate until more information comes forward if there is any.

I can't go 'round and 'round with you on this Benghazi thing.It's exhausting.You're just reading, imagne having to write all that?

I'm going to take it you're a very eccentric fellow and leave it at that. I'm also going to take it that the Pentagons timeline of events, and their reaction to it is accurate until more information comes forward if there is any.Hmm, that sounds suspiciously like...I can't go 'round and 'round with you on this Benghazi thing.

Hmm, that sounds suspiciously like...Nah, i'm only going to comment on that thread once. Still like the map though.

Shoe's On The Other Foot NowIn Florida's 18th District, where Allen West [R] was challenged by Patrick Murphy [D], the counting of votes has been a complete debacle.A Circuit Court Judge in St. Lucie County has denied Florida's Republican Rep. Allen West's motion to order a re-tally of all early voting ballots in the county, after a partial re-tally of early votes last Sunday resulted in the disappearance of some 800 votes when the same paper ballots were run through the same machines a second time due to unexplained "issues" with the electronic tabulation systems the first time around. That initial re-tally had resulted in a net gain of some 500 votes by West.Clearly, some of the counting had been botched by the machines.http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9741Democrats have been complaining about these voting machines for years.How can we be sure of election results when the same ballots run through the same machines come up with a count that is different by 800 votes?Since the Circuit Court Judge denied West's motion for a re-tally of all early voting ballots in St. Lucie county, Allen West has now conceded the election.Maybe now, Republicans will take Democrats seriously, when they talk about the unreliability of these electronic voting machines.

Hi there Misty! Just wanted to say hello to you! Great thread btw!

Hi there Misty! Just wanted to say hello to you!Hey FE. How the hell are you? Great thread btw!Thanks. Drop by any time.Happy Thanksgiving.

Hey FE. How the hell are you? Thanks. Drop by any time.Happy Thanksgiving.Not too shabby. Still bending time and space around with my mind. Still laughing at teacher.Thank you, and to you the same. Happy Thanksgiving.

GOPs Benghazi Conspiracy Falls Apart: White House Didnt Change Susan Rices Talking PointsIntelligence officials told CNN that the intelligence community, not the White House, changed the now infamous Benghazi talking points given to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice before her appearance on several morning news shows in September. CNN quoted both the spokesperson for the Director of National Intelligence and an anonymous official familiar with the drafting of the talking points. The DNI spokesperson said that the only substantive changes came from the intelligence community and not the White House. Former CIA Director David Petraeus told lawmakers in a closed door hearing last week that the CIAs original assessment on the Sept. 11 Benghazi attack was that it was carried out by al Qaeda affiliated groups. But he reportedly said that analysis was later taken out after an interagency review in favor of a more general assessment that extremists carried out the attack to broaden the scope and not tip off terrorists to U.S. knowledge on the matter. And despite the fact that Petraeus said the CIA approved the change, Republicans, led by Republican senators John McCain (AZ), Lindsey Graham (SC) and Kelly Ayotte (NH), have accused the White House of stripping the language for political reasons. But Shawn Turner, the spokesman for the Director of National Intelligence, told CNN that it wasnt the White Houses decision: The intelligence community made substantive, analytical changes before the talking points were sent to government agency partners for their feedback. There were no substantive changes made to the talking points after they left the intelligence community.Another anonymous intelligence official echoed Turner, saying that the changes were made based on legitimate intelligence and for legal purposes: First, the information about individuals linked to al Qaeda was derived from classified sources. Second, when links were so tenuous as they still are it makes sense to be cautious before pointing fingers so you dont set off a chain of circular and self-reinforcing assumptions. Third, it is important to be careful not to prejudice a criminal investigation in its early stages.Indeed, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) told the New York Times last week that in his closed door briefing, Petraeus was adamant there was no politicization of the process, no White House interference or political agenda. The fight over the talking points will most likely continue; it has even become a campaign cause for Republican senators like Lindsey Graham. Others like John McCain have vowed to do everything to block the potential nomination of Susan Rice for Secretary of State. But Democrats in Congress and media commentators are beginning to wonder why Republicans are picking a substance-free fight with Rice, a woman and an African-American, after the drubbing they took in last months elections among those demographics.

McCain: Surprised By Report That DNI Removed Terrorism References In Rices Benghazi Talking PointsSen. John McCain (R-AZ) released a statement on Tuesday in which he responded to reports that the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) scrubbed references to Al-Qaeda from the unclassified talking points used by United Nations Ambassador Susan Rice and others following the September attack in Benghazi. McCain said the revelation runs counter to what he was told by intelligence officials during Senate hearings and serves as another reminder of why he and other Republicans are "suspicious" of the Obama administration's response to the attack. The statement: I am somewhat surprised and frustrated to read reports that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence was responsible for removing references to Al-Qaeda from the unclassified talking points about the Benghazi attack that Ambassador Susan Rice and other officials used in the early days after September 11, 2012. I participated in hours of hearings in the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence last week regarding the events in Benghazi, where senior intelligence officials were asked this very question, and all of them including the Director of National Intelligence himself told us that they did not know who made the changes. Now we have to read the answers to our questions in the media. There are many other questions that remain unanswered. But this latest episode is another reason why many of us are so frustrated with, and suspicious of, the actions of this Administration when it comes to the Benghazi attack.Maybe McCain should have attended the 3 hour top-secret briefing on Benghazi, instead of holding a press conference to complain about how he wanted more info on Benghazi.

The other night Rachel Maddow did a report on the A train to Far Rockaway (Queens, NY) being washed out from hurricane Sandy, and what the MTA (Metropolitan Transportation Authority) is doing about it.This story really hit home with me, since I lived most of my life on the other side of Jamaica Bay from the Rockaways, and rode that train out there many times.WATCH THE VIDEOTranscript:MADDOW: Best new thing in the world. OK, let`s cue up the train tape right where it crosses the water. OK, what you are looking at here is one of the strangest parts of the subway system in America`s largest city. This is the A Train, the longest subway line crossing the water of Jamaica Bay. New York City is truly huge both in terms of the number of people who live here and how much land the city covers. The A Train, this section of it, goes from Queens across Jamaica Bay. As you see here, the trip over the water is long enough that -- I kid you not -- pigeons have learned to get on the train at one end and ride it to the other side. The pigeons commute. And where they are going is the Rockaways, a 11-mile long Atlantic Beach Peninsula, which is still part of New York City, but it`s more than an hour`s ride from Manhattan and it has sand and waves and lifeguards all at the southern edge of New York City. The Rockaways are a funny place. It`s got a dozen distinct neighborhoods with a lot of housing for the elderly, also a lot of housing projects when the city put thousands of low income families way, way, way, out there -- an hour`s ride by subway from the Manhattan skyline that everybody thinks of when they think of New York. Half a century ago when these projects went up, the urban planners of New York City thought that the elderly and poor people didn`t need to be near town or near jobs, so they put them way, way, way out there in the Rockaways. Now, working poor families making long commutes from the beach to their jobs in the city. And conversely in the summer, especially, you can find surfers toting their surf boards on the subway out to the part of New York City where the word swells doesn`t rich people, it means waves. So, it`s thanks to that miraculous and very long A Train subway route that you can move between the Rockaways and town. It just takes awhile. That was the deal before hurricane Sandy. And I`m sorry to tell you these trusty A Train tracks with the families and the surfers and the commuting pigeons, those tracks got washed out last month by hurricane Sandy. The storm surge swamped the tracks and twisted them and dropped all the (INAUDIBLE) on them, they are not expected to get fixed for many, many long months -- which means tens of thousands of people, our fellow Americans, are logistically stuck out there in the Rockaways. Lots of them still without power and heat in their homes. The Rockaways are not an island, but for people out there, that is how life is being lived right now. After the storm, the Rockaways got so hard to reach that some bicyclists pedaled in supplies, I think partly to prove that they could it, but partly because with gas supplies short and ration, biking still worked. Believe it or not, the U.S. Navy made an amphibious landing a couple weeks ago because that was the best way to bring in equipment. Just pull up to the beach and go. Today, we got some news. The folks that run the subway system just posted this video. Look at that. The city -- look at that -- the city has trucked in 20 subway cars for the Rockaway side of the busted tracks. They did this in the dark four nights running, bringing in the subway cars and putting them back together. The replacement train is going to run along the eastern part, the far part of the Rockaways where an old line remains intact. And then when you get to the busted part, a bus is going to take people across a bridge, across the broken down part of the tracks, and then the bus will drop folks off where they can catch another train and continue their commute. They are calling this rejiggered line the H Train. And it starts tomorrow morning. This H Train is not a perfect fix, but it won`t work for anybody. But it gives something back to the people who were left up a creek without a paddle after Sandy. The H Train and the will and ingenuity and the long nights working of everybody involved to make it happen and the city`s manifest determination to not forget that far flung part of the world again, and life looking ever so slightly up again because of all that hard work, that I humbly submit as the best new thing in the world today. While the subways to Manhattan (except for the L train) are pretty much back to normal, the A train to Far Rockaway will be out of commission for awhile. The line runs through Broad Channel, with the tracks sitting not far above the water, and the system was pounded during the hurricane. Debris, boats, and entire docks found themselves sitting atop the tracks, and long sections had the supporting ballast completely washed out. A section where the track support was totally washed out.To provide temporary transportation in the Rockaways, the MTA trucked subway cars to the peninsula to create shuttle trains until full service can be restored. The MTA has given no timeline for full restoration of the A line.LOL....I could see my High School in that video.

A very, very happy Thanksgiving to you, Misty -- this year and all to follow.