Liberal Forum

New evidence: CIA and MI6 were told before invasion that Iraq had no active WMDFresh evidence is revealed today about how MI6 and the CIA were told through secret channels by Saddam Husseins foreign minister and his head of intelligence that Iraq had no active weapons of mass destruction.Tony Blair told parliament before the war that intelligence showed Iraqs nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programme was active, growing and up and running.A special BBC Panorama programme tonight will reveal how British and US intelligence agencies were informed by top sources months before the invasion that Iraq had no active WMD programme, and that the information was not passed to subsequent inquiries.It describes how Naji Sabri, Saddams foreign minister, told the CIAs station chief in Paris at the time, Bill Murray, through an intermediary that Iraq had virtually nothing in terms of WMD.Sabri said in a statement that the Panorama story was totally fabricated.However, Panorama confirms that three months before the war an MI6 officer met Iraqs head of intelligence, Tahir Habbush al-Tikriti, who also said that Saddam had no active WMD. The meeting in the Jordanian capital, Amman, took place days before the British government published its now widely discredited Iraqi weapons dossier in September 2002.Lord Butler, the former cabinet secretary who led an inquiry into the use of intelligence in the runup to the invasion of Iraq, tells the programme that he was not told about Sabris comments, and that he should have been.Butler says of the use of intelligence: There were ways in which people were misled or misled themselves at all stages.When it was suggested to him that the body that probably felt most misled of all was the British public, Butler replied: Yes, I think theyre, theyre, they got every reason think that.The programme shows how the then chief of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, responded to information from Iraqi sources later acknowledged to be unreliable.One unidentified MI6 officer has told the Chilcot inquiry that at one stage information was being torn off the teleprinter and rushed across to Number 10″.Another said it was wishful thinking (that) promised the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow.The programme says that MI6 stood by claims that Iraq was buying uranium from Niger, though these were dismissed by other intelligence agencies, including the French.It also shows how claims by Iraqis were treated seriously by elements in MI6 and the CIA even after they were exposed as fabricated including claims, notably about alleged mobile biological warfare containers, made by Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, a German source codenamed Curveball. He admitted to the Guardian in 2011 that all the information he gave to the west was fabricated.Panorama says it asked for an interview with Blair but he said he was too busy.I guess Blair is too busy painting puppies and portraits of himself bathing just like W.This is how you get to spend the rest of your life when you lie your way into a war.

A Bronx Cheer for the Postal Service: The Fire Sale of Historic Post Offices Continues Earlier this week (Feb. 3, 2013) the Postal Service announced that it planned to sell the historic post office on the Grand Concourse in the Bronx, New York. There's an excellent article about the post office by David W. Dunlap in Friday's New York Times. The Bronx General Post Office is the largest of twenty-nine Depression-era post offices in New York City. Built in 1935, it is one of over a thousand post offices constructed by FDRs New Deal. It is also the latest addition to a growing list of historic post offices that are being marked for sale by the Postal Service. According to the annual compliance report filed with the Postal Regulatory Commission a few weeks ago, the Postal Service has reviewed over 4,000 facilities for potential sale, and it has identified over 600 buildings earmarked for disposal. Many of these will undoubtedly be historic properties. The Postal Service has sold at least a dozen historic post offices over the past year, and there are dozens more for sale or under review. [....] The Privatization Of The Public Realm The Postal Services exclusive real estate agent on sales and leases is CB Richard Ellis, the worlds largest commercial real estate company. The Chairman of the Board is Richard Blum, husband of California Senator Feinstein. That has all the appearances of a conflict of interest, but that doesn't seem to matter to anyone in our nation's capital. One can only imagine how much money Blum and CBRE are making off the sales. The USPS properties on the CBRE website average $1.6 million. Selling off 600 properties could bring in a billion dollars. The details of CBRE's contract with the Postal Service are unknown, but even a one percent commission would mean $10 million for CBRE. In 2009, CBRE won a contract with the state of California to broker over $2 billion in office buildings the state wanted to privatize because of its financial problems. Now Blum is doing the same with the Postal Services properties, and the goal is the same, the privatization of public property. Along with outsourcing, selling off assets is one of the main steps in privatizing a public entity. The 1988 Presidential Commission on Privatization (under President Reagan) recommended that divestiture of federal assets should be pursued in the interest of ensuring the highest and best use of USPS assets, and that's exactly what the Postal Service and CBRE are doing. Converting post offices into film studios, law offices, and B&Bs may be someones idea of highest and best use, but for the hundreds of communities that treasure their historic post office, the best use would simply be keeping the post office a post office. The leaders of the Postal Service should find another way to bring in new revenues, like charging their big customers postal rates that are in compliance with what it costs to deliver their mail. They should leave the historic post offices alone. Landmark, shmandmark. Described by the Landmarks Preservation Commission as the largest of 29 Depression-era post offices in New York City, the Bronx General Post Office occupies the entire block from East 149th to East 150th Street. Its most distinguishing feature is 13 lobby murals painted in the late 30s by Mr. Shahn (1898-1969) and Bernarda Bryson (1903-2004), his companion and later wife. Like much of the artwork of that era, the murals celebrate labor and its byproducts. There are colossal figures of farmers and mill workers, steel factories and hydroelectric dams still powerful, though darkened, dulled, nicked and cracked.

Candy Crowley Oozes Sympathy for Steubenville Rapists - VIDEOShortly after the guilty verdict in the Steubenville rape case was announced, Candy Crowley took to the airwaves to report it and connect with their reporter on the ground for more details. Her lead-in to the remote shot was shameful.Crowley was filled with sadness for two young men who took advantage of a drunk and possibly drugged young girl because the judge actually held them accountable for what they did. Instead of wondering aloud why they weren't tried as adults, she was instead very concerned that now they would have to register for the rest of their lives as sex offenders.They are sex offenders. And now they're convicted sex offenders. If Crowley doubts the lightness of their sentence in the overall larger picture, consider the statement this morning from Attorney General Mike DeWine, via The Atlantic WireOhio Attorney General Mike DeWine, saying that "this community needs assurance that no stone has been left unturned in our search for the truth," announced at a press briefing at Jefferson County Juvenile Court "that we cannot bring finality to this matter without the convening of a grand jury," which he said would convene on or around April 15. "I anticipate numerous witnesses will be called. The grand jury, quite frankly, could meet for a number of days," DeWine said, adding that "indictments could be returned and additional charges could be filed." He mentioned failure to report a felony, tampering with evidence, and "others" as possible charges. He added that the boys who received immunity were likely to retain that right.DeWine gave a sense of scale to his office's investigation: 13 cellphones, 396,270 text messages, 308,586 photos, 940 video clips, 3,188 phone calls, 16,422 cellphone contacts. And that was just the cyber-crimes division, which prosecutor Marianne Hemmeter said was brought in on the request of attorneys "after Anonymous hit," referring to the hackers who brought social-media attention to the case and "put enormous pressure" on the victim. DeWine also said the "appalling" case involved closed to 60 interviews, but that 16 people refused to talk to his investigators, and that his office was seeking finality in continuing court proceedings in the matter. "Most of the 16 are underage," DeWine said."This is not a happy time for anyone. No one can take any pleasure in this. Every rape is a tragedy. This is a tragedy," DeWine said, moving on to castigate rape culture in general. "This happens every Friday night," DeWine said. "We shouldn't tolerate it anymore as a country."Nor should we shed any crocodile tears for these rapists, Candy.Crowley asks CNN's legal analyst, "What's the lasting effect on two young men being found guilty in juvenile court of rape essentially?"She didn't seem to have any interest about the lasting effect on the victim.A writer at The Onion re-upped this to YouTube in light of the recent controversial statements by CNN's Candy Crowley after the Steubenville verdict.It could have been produced by the CNN team covering the Steubenville rape verdict.

The NRA Fights to Keep Guns in the Hands of Wife BeatersAdd another to the long list of things that the NRA considers less important than maintaining high profits for the gun industry: Preventing men from killing their wives after they've already been identified as a threat to do so. This article from the New York Times about the NRA's dogged protection of the gun rights of wife beaters is absolutely nauseating. Over and over again, anti-domestic violence activists and legislators try to make it harder for men who have a hankering to kill their wives from arming themselves to do so, and over and over again, the NRA throws a fit and makes sure the sacred right of a man to control a woman through violence is protected. Considering how many wife beaters kill themselves after shooting their wives, it doesn't even seem like a good use of NRA resources, as those men are dead now and can no longer continue to buy guns and line the NRA's pockets. But we are talking about the same organization that's decided to get into the fight over whether or not it's rape if it's not a stranger in the bushes, so perhaps being hateful to women is its own reward.At stake here is whether or not states should be able to seize the guns of people who have restraining orders filed against them. The common sense answer is yes, as restraining orders aren't worth the paper theyre printed on if there isnt any attempt to actually, you know, restrain the violent person from acting violently towards his victim. Unless the people who have restraining orders put upon them are members of militias, they have no constitutional right to have guns. No one is proposing that these people be locked up without a trial. A good middle ground between protecting the right of due process and preventing wife beaters from murdering women who dare make the choice to leave them is to take the guns and make it harder for them to go on a killing rampage.What's interesting about this article is that pilot programs in California that are trying to enforce gun seizure are apparently very effective."We have not had a firearm-related domestic violence homicide in the last three years," said Sgt. Linda Gibbons, who oversees the program as the head of the major crimes unit in the county sheriff's office.Last year alone, the program took in 324 firearms through seizure or surrender from 81 people, out of more than 800 protective orders it reviewed.Every morning, Detective John Kovach, who handles a range of domestic violence investigations, reviews a stack of protective orders filed the day before - generally 15 to 20 a day - looking for any mention of firearms.Usually, a handful of orders a day will contain some reference to guns, which Detective Kovach follows up on. He sometimes contacts the person protected by the order to find out more. He also checks various law enforcement databases, including one available in California that tracks handgun purchases.He goes out once or twice a week and serves the restraining orders himself. Usually, he says, he tries to collect firearms immediately, employing a well-honed sales pitch about helping the person comply with the law. If he believes beforehand that the person might not be cooperative, he will sometimes request a search warrant."My experience is the quicker you act, the more successful you're going to be," he said.This demonstrates how the NRA is about protecting the interests of the gun industry over the gun consumer. By taking these quick measures, Det. Kovach is not only saving the lives of abused women, but hes also saving the lives of the gun-owning abusers. As long as the gun is around, the temptation for an abuser remains high to grab it, chase down his ex-wife, and either kill or kidnap her. There is no good ending for a man who gives into that temptation, and so Kovach is doing these men a favor by taking that possibility off the table. We know for a fact that the first few months after a woman leaves her abuser are the most dangerous, because the abuser is really pumped up to regain control of the woman he has lost control of. There is no good that can come of letting men in that heightened state of anger and feeling out of control have guns.This is what happens when the gun industry exerts so much control over legislation. As a society, we should all agree that keeping women safe from violence is more important than keeping the profits of gun manufacturers high, and yet here we are. People who have a financial interest in not preventing murder should have no place at the table when discussing the prevention of murder; they are fundamentally opposed to the purpose of the discussion. Its ironic that this understanding is not questioned in business; people who oppose higher profits for a company arent allowed to sit in on board meetings. And yet people who have a financial interest in not preventing murderand in fact use the existence of murder as a marketing tool to encourage people to buy their productare allowed to control the discourse about murder prevention. That's ridiculous, and it's time that people started seeing it for what it is.Well I guess if you think it's good enough for people on the terrorist watch list to be able to own guns, it's not much of a stretch to include wife beaters.

Florida Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll resigns amid probe of corrupt veterans' charity she consulted for.(CNN)March 13, 2013 -- Florida Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll has resigned, it was announced Wednesday, the day after she answered questions from investigators about her role in an allegedly corrupt veterans' charity.The resignation came the same day 57 people connected to the charity, Allied Veterans of the World, were arrested on racketeering and money laundering charges. Leaders in the company, which operates Internet gambling parlors, are accused of donating little of its proceeds to veterans, and instead buying luxury goods for themselves."I want any funds from these groups to immediately be given to charity. I have zero tolerance for this kind of criminal activity, period," Gov. Rick Scott said Wednesday.In a two-sentence resignation letter delivered to Scott, Carroll said it was an "honor to have served." She consulted for Allied Veterans, but was not among those arrested Wednesday."Carroll consulted for this company in 2009 and 2010 when she was serving in the Florida House of Representatives," Scott said at the press conference. "The Florida Department of Law Enforcement interviewed Lt. Gov. Carroll about her work for this company, and yesterday Lt. Gov. Carroll resigned in an effort to keep her affiliation with the company from distracting our efforts to help make sure we do the right thing for Florida families."Scott said he wouldn't elaborate on any potential connection between Carroll and Allied Veterans of the World, but did say he appreciated "the efforts she made on behalf of the state of Florida. She was tireless. She put a lot of effort into military and getting jobs going and I am grateful for her service."Rachel Maddow did a segment about this and a few other phony groups supposedly raising money for veterans.Interestingly enough they all seem to involve Republicans who used some of their ill gotten gains to donate money to campaigns.VIDEOTranscript:The state of Florida, the great state of Florida, I should say, doesnot right now have a lieutenant governor. They have a governor, of course.You know, old Rick Scott. There is a job in Florida called lieutenantgovernor, but there is nobody in that job. The job is vacant. Helpwanted.Last week, Governor Rick Scott is reported to have, quote, "staredstone-faced" at the Florida Press Corps annual political roast inTallahassee, he said to have stared stone-faced while a reporter at thatroast poked fun at the tension between him and the lieutenant governor.The joke was supposed to be the lieutenant governor was demanding respect -- R-E-S-P-E-C-T -- from Rick Scott. She was dressed up kind of ArethaFranklin style. It was supposed to be funny. Funny, ha-ha.As "The New York Times" reports, quote, "What nearly everybody in thatroom did not know was that the lieutenant governor, Jennifer Carroll, thefirst black woman to serve in the state`s number two spot, what people inthe room did not know is that she had only hours earlier signed aresignation letter, while seated at a small table in her office, and thenhanded it to the governor`s general council."Florida`s lieutenant governor had already resigned and everybodyjoking about how difficult their relationship with didn`t know that she wasalready gone. The reporters up there on stage bumping around as pseudo-Aretha Franklin, portraying the give me respect lieutenant governor, butthe lieutenant governor had already quit.The next day when the news broke that she had quit, that she hadresigned, Governor Scott issued a statement in which he said that thelieutenant governor had left elected office, she left the number two officein the state, so that her former association with a certain company wouldnot end up, quote, "distracting from our important work on behalf ofFlorida families."Well, the distracting company in question is this -- this is theformer Florida lieutenant governor. And she was the lieutenant governor.And she`s appearing in a PSA/ad for this distracting company. She did thisa couple of years ago.In the two years preceding her appearance in that ad, the Floridalieutenant governor had a P.R. firm that that group, that company was theprimary source of income for her firm. The group purports to be a charityfor America`s military veterans. They purport to be a group that helpsveterans struggling with homelessness, among other things.The group is led by this man, whose title in the group is nationalcommander. His name is Jerry Bass. If you`d like to see a more recentpicture, we have one here in the form of his mug shot. This was taken lastweek. The day after Florida`s lieutenant resigned because her associationwith him and his supposed veterans charity made her continuing in office asFlorida`s lieutenant governor an untenable prospect.Jerry Bass was arrested last week in Florida amid allegations that hisgroup supposedly raising money for veterans was actually doing somethingelse with almost all of the money they raised.In all, nearly 60 people were arrested in this sting. It was a massraid. Nearly 60 people arrested, 57 arrest warrants issues around thesupposed veterans charity operating in Florida. The suspects stand accusedof racketeering, illegal gambling, money laundering and more. The IRS saysthe so-called veterans charity was a fraud.From "The Associated Press," investigators say they found evidence ofnearly $6 million in what appeared to be actual charitable donations toveterans, $6 million, but that is only about 2 percent of the nearly $300million raised supposedly for veterans during that time.Investigators chasing the other 98 percent of the money that wassupposedly raised for veterans found that the group instead lavishedmillions dollars on charity leaders, spending on boats and beach frontcondos and Maseratis and Ferraris and Porsches. A lot of it just turned upas cash, parked in people`s personal bank accounts. Law enforcementsseized about 300 bank accounts containing almost $65 million in cash, aswell as sports cars and other property.Since the raid a week ago, this supposed charity for veterans appearedto have gone poof. The headquarters of the group in St. Augustine,Florida, described our reporters as sitting empty. Emails and phone callsto the organization just ringing off the ether now with nobody responding.Fifty-seven people get arrested and then, all of a sudden, we can`t findthat group anymore.The press in Florida is reporting that part two of the giant multi-state investigation into this apparent fraud will be looking into thegroup`s extensive political donations. Already, Florida`s Republican Partysay they plan to give $300,000 to real veterans causes, to try to make goodon the money they took from this scheme that got several dozen allegedhackters arrested.In Florida, at least for now, this particular gig is up, this allegedscam is over. I mean, the boss`s mug shot is on national TV. The Porschesand the Ferraris and the Maseratis are with the proper authorities now.The headquarters had gone dark, and good luck to any real veterans whoactually did think they could depend on this group that promised to helpthem, but is now accused of taking that money for their own benefitinstead.Florida`s lieutenant governor has done precisely one interview sinceresigning in this scandal last week. She did an interview with "The NewYork Times" in which she told "The New York Times", quote, "I believe I dida fantastic job."Two years ago on this show, we covered the case of Bobby Thompson.(INAUDIBLE) he was at the time. The man known as Bobby Thompson also ran apurported charity for veterans. This, I think, really was an early versionof their Web site. The Bobby Thompson Web site. Come on, right?Yes, fake Bobby Thompson and his charity, I guess, claim to havechapters in dozens of states all serving veterans. They raised money bycalling up regular people on the phone and asking for money. Supposedly,they wanted to help Navy veterans in particular.Well, "The Tampa Bay Times" spent months investigating this guy andhis supposed charity. He also was in Florida. They found that hissupposed national headquarters as well as most of his state chapters wereactually just one rented mailbox at a UPS Store.Just like the charity that just got raided in Florida last week, BobbyThompson cuddled up to all manner of political leaders, from President Bushto Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell, Virginia Attorney General KenCuccinelli, several Virginia lawmakers. Once he got found out, they alltried the shake that money off themselves like it was a pack of fleas. Imean, when Bobby Thompson got found out when the press exposed him forappearing to take money intended for veterans and using to line his ownpockets instead, fake Bobby Thompson split.He was a fugitive. He ran from the federal authorities for two yearswhere he finally got caught was in Portland, Oregon. He`s now beenextradited to Ohio. He is slated to stand trial there next month under hisreal name, John Donald Cody. But when they got into him, he was justanother Florida guy accused of a nationwide scam built on the backs of ourmilitary veterans, and, of course, on our civilian desire to do somethingfor them.But before you go thinking this is just some weirdness that keepscrawling up out of Florida, in particular, consider also the past couple ofyears the news out of Wisconsin. Before Scott Walker became governor ofWisconsin, his last job before that was being county executive inMilwaukee. And in Milwaukee, he helped organize a local supposed charityeffort for veterans. It was an annual picnic at the Milwaukee Zoo, just afriendly local event for vets.Well, when Scott Walker made his executive decision of who to handthat work off to, when he made a decision to hand that work off to others,he made bad decisions. The guy on the right in the handcuffs was sentencedin December to a couple of years in prison for stealing $51,000 in moneythat was meant to go to veterans and their families. The other guy got thesame prison term in January for the thousands of dollars that he stole --money again that was supposed to go to veterans.That money one was there to be stolen because Americans gave thatmoney as a way of saying "thank you, we appreciate you, we want to do rightby you, we are glad you are back," saying that to the men and women willingto fight for this country, even to sacrifice those lives for this country,if asked to do so.However you feel about the wars our country has fought in ourlifetimes, or our grandparents` lifetime, the idea of welcome home is anidea that works in this country. We want to do right by our veterans. Wewant to make sure when they and their families have what they needs. Wewant to make sure when they are promised things, as a condition of themsigning up, that those promises are kept.When so help me God, the low life drifters among us decide to exploitthe way we feel about wanting to do right by veterans, when they undertaketo tap that feeling in us but then divert it, so veterans do not actuallyget helped -- really what we need in those cases is a special place in hellso we can cram those people into.

Rachel Maddow did a segment about this and a few other phony groups supposedly raising money for veterans.Interestingly enough they all seem to involve Republicans who used some of their ill gotten gains to donate money to campaigns.Do you think that if there were any leftie groups doing the same that Maddow would report on them?I KNOW a while back I saw you whiing about righties at this site quoting right wing sources.Just saying.

Do you think that if there were any leftie groups doing the same that Maddow would report on them?Yes, she would.I KNOW a while back I saw you whining about righties at this site quoting right wing sources.Just saying.Depends on the source.Whenever I see something that can only be found on either right wing or left wing websites or blogs, I get a red flag.Everything in the VIDEO I posted can be backed up by many other sources.Rachel Maddow just has a way of putting it all together in one place.

Yes, she would. Which of course leads to the next question... So only Republicans commit this sort of fraud? (Careful now, you know how I work) Depends on the source. Ah, I see. I ask cause I go about things a tad differently. I am my own source dontchyaknow? Whenever I see something that can only be found on either right wing or left wing websites or blogs, I get a red flag. Does a Misty red flag mean you summarily dismiss it out of hand or does that mean you look a little harder? Everything in the VIDEO I posted can be backed up by many other sources. Rachel Maddow just has a way of putting it all together in one place. Rachel maddow is a lying retard, her show, and Lawrence Odonnels,I deem unwatchable, unwatchable I say. Maddows MO is to take half a sentence someone says, apply to it a meaning that was not intended and then spend half her show using herintentionaly misconstured inferment (I think I just made a new word up)to make the target out to be a racist animal. She is a hack of the highest order. Maybe in the near future I'l try to stomach watching some of her swill and prove to you that what I claim which will cut into my busy and better spenttime of watching paint dry whileI listen to recordings of my mother-in-law telling my I'll never amount to anything. Other wise, howz things?

Misty, on 20 Mar 2013 - 17:55, said:Yes, she would.Which of course leads to the next question...So only Republicans commit this sort of fraud? (Careful now, you know how I work)Misty: Absolutely not.Fraud is a non-partisan crime.Misty: Whenever I see something that can only be found on either right wing or left wing websites or blogs, I get a red flag.Does a Misty red flag mean you summarily dismiss it out of hand or does that mean you look a little harder?Misty: It means I Google it and look for more mainstream sources.Rachel maddow is a lying retard, her show, and Lawrence Odonnels,I deem unwatchable, unwatchable I say. Maddows MO is to take half a sentence someone says, apply to it a meaning that was not intended and then spend half her show using herintentionaly misconstured inferment (I think I just made a new word up)to make the target out to be a racist animal. She is a hack of the highest order. Maybe in the near future I'l try to stomach watching some of her swill and prove to you that what I claim which will cut into my busy and better spenttime of watching paint dry whileI listen to recordings of my mother-in-law telling my I'll never amount to anything.Other wise, howz things?Things are good.How about you?I'm sorry you feel that way about Maddow.(I could agree with you more about Lawrence O'Donnell.)She has a way of putting things into historical context that I learn a lot from.For instance, last night she did a piece on the history of the CIA that was very interesting.She showed how it has morphed from an intelligence gathering agency into a para-military agency, with little or no Congressional oversight over it's activities.Apparently there is growing speculation that the White House is preparing to shift its secretive drone program from the Central Intelligence Agency to the Pentagon, so as to allow for more Congressional oversight over the program.Now, instead of just taking her word for that, even though she interviewed a member of Congress about it, I still checked it out for myself.http://www.csmonitor...ld-supplant-CIA

your boyfriend's back. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

your boyfriend's back. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaOMG, I just saw that!Let the games begin. LOL

(Missy Poo)I'm sorry you feel that way about Maddow.(I could agree with you more about Lawrence O'Donnell.)She has a way of putting things into historical context that I learn a lot from.No wonder you're such a moonbat. She generally is so clueless, it's painful to watch.

No wonder you're such a moonbat. She generally is so clueless, it's painful to watch. Not half as painful as reading your posts Puss.Don't forget to take your meds now.

lol.

No wonder you're such a moonbat. She generally is so clueless, it's painful to watch. Not half as painful as reading your posts Puss. Don't forget to take your meds now. If I'm so clueless, why are you so terrified of actually debating me? So terrified of answering my questions? Go ahead, tell a creative lie.

Well I guess if you think it's good enough for people on the terrorist watch list to be able to own guns, it's not much of a stretch to include wife beaters. Domestic violence is a **** charge. Just SAYING it makes it so. Guys get royally screwed by the unconstitutional laws on books all over the country. You think all the state should need to do is hold out enough goodies to women if the cry abuse, and they can pretty much interrupt property rights and gun rights all in one fell swoop? The way DV laws are structured in many states, women can basically commit a legal rape of a guy. A chick can stay a week giving her intended victim daily beejays, have a friend send her a letter, beat the dude to the box, grab the letter, and she is now a "resident" at that address. Then she can all piggies and CLAIM he "threatened" her, and he's out of HIS HOUSE for six months while she sells everything in the house and skips. Pretty good pay for a week of whoring by some sharp little party girl, huh? Let's take his **** gun rights, too - at least until the smoke clears, right? Do you think that if there were any leftie groups doing the same that Maddow would report on them? CONSITENTLY retarded. That's what fox is for, you stupid jagazz. It's THEIR job to ignore this news (as they did) and report anything bad about the left. You really are an intellectual cockroach. If I'm so clueless, why are you so terrified of actually debating me? So terrified of answering my questions? Go ahead, tell a creative lie. Glory Hole, there is no "debating" you, you cretinous pinhead. You spew WSJ Op/Eds, end of story. You NEVER defend a thesis. You quote OTHERS defending it. When that gets destroyed, you engage in puffery and emoticons. You spend way too much time with your face in rich guys' crotches, you effeminate little sycophant.

Glory Hole, there is no "debating" you, you cretinous pinhead. You spew WSJ Op/Eds, end of story. You NEVER defend a thesis. You quote OTHERS defending it. When that gets destroyed, you engage in puffery and emoticons. You spend way too much time with your face in rich guys' crotches, you effeminate little sycophant. Oh gosh, another moonbat suffering from terminal myopia. When I express my own opinions, you moonbats bleat that I have "no sources." When I cite sources, you bleat that I can't think for myself. Stupid, stupid, stupid. And obviously, you've never read the sources I cite. They don't defend the rich. They defend freedom and free markets for everyone. Duuuh.

Yep.Spewboy has returned from his self-imposed exile. He FINALLY managed to get the red off his face.At least he WAS embarrassed. More than most of these monkeys are capable of.

If I'm so clueless, why are you so terrified of actually debating me?So terrified of answering my questions?Go ahead, tell a creative lie.You are obviously mistaking my revulsion for you for fear Puss.You run around here saying that you crave serious debate, then you engage in the most inane and childish name calling.Give me one good reason why anyone should ever take you seriously?

You are obviously mistaking my revulsion for you for fear Puss.You run around here saying that you crave serious debate, then you engage in the most inane and childish name calling.Give me one good reason why anyone should ever take you seriously?Especially with so much evidence that he's widely regarded as a troll on this board:http://liberalforum....em-troll-or-no/