Liberal Forum

Well, if you have to bring up tragedies to back your play on additional laws, then that's pretty pitiful. Where is the talk about philosophy, principles, ethics? Give us something other than an emotional plea based on recent events that support your cause. If this was the case in anything else, it would be all too easy to show instances where lots of other things should be outlawed, banned or have additional regulations. So are you saying that the family members of those who were killed in Newtown should just shut up?They don't have a right to speak?Do you believe that they are being forced to speak by Democrats and are not doing it on their own?I saw them on 60 Minutes last Sunday, and they sure didn't seem like the type of people who would allow themselves to be used for political purposes. They were very intelligent and articulate people. None of them espoused any type of political ideology and in fact insisted that this was not a political issue for them.

I don't necessarily agree with the way Rush said it, but he's kinda right. Anytime any politician parades victims out to win support for their side, I have a real issue with that. Sorry but I disagree with your description of them being 'paraded' out.In my last post I mentioned the 60 Minutes interview.The families actually reached out to 60 Minutes and asked to be interviewed, not the other way around.And from what I have seen they have asked to appear on other shows as well.I don't believe that anyone is using them.They want to be heard.Some of the families of the Newtown victims reached out to 60 Minutes to share their stories in an emotional piece.

Hey Puss! This is just like all your old threads now where you talk to yourself.

Hey Puss! This is just like all your old threads now where you talk to yourself. So this is cletis' place now?

So are you saying that the family members of those who were killed in Newtown should just shut up? They don't have a right to speak? Do you believe that they are being forced to speak by Democrats and are not doing it on their own? Come on Misty, you're being dense on purpose. It's obviously the political tie in. You related it to politics, not just victims calling for these things. The cons you mentioned brought up the fact that politicians used the kids, not the parents saying they are tired of guns and starting a movement or something. And once they do if Obama has them on some press conference, then isn't that doing what they said and doing what I said in my reply? I mean, where is the gun control talk when it comes to the principles these Dem's believe in, besides pointing to any tragedy that works? I saw them on 60 Minutes last Sunday, and they sure didn't seem like the type of people who would allow themselves to be used for political purposes. They were very intelligent and articulate people. None of them espoused any type of political ideology and in fact insisted that this was not a political issue for them. For THEM - for Obama and Democrats, it is a political issue. Otherwise they wouldn't even have to mention this tragedy, and if they did they don't have to show the victims and give the victims a political forum to say what they think. When you do that you are making this tragedy a political stunt, that's why when someone says something about loving them some guns it becomes "what about the children" and "you're being insensitive to those killed recently..." And you know how it goes. No offense because I've tried to give you a plan and simple example in my above reply, but you just spun this and ignored what I said. Don't deflect what I brought up............ ..........which is bringing up allot of other terrible things that happen and using those people or that particular incident to push another agenda, be it guns, abortion with your previous post about gosnell or anti gay with some pederast story or blah blah blah.

Sorry but I disagree with your description of them being 'paraded' out. In my last post I mentioned the 60 Minutes interview. The families actually reached out to 60 Minutes and asked to be interviewed, not the other way around. And from what I have seen they have asked to appear on other shows as well. I don't believe that anyone is using them. They want to be heard.Some of the families of the Newtown victims reached out to 60 Minutes to share their stories in an emotional piece. I was speaking in generalities. Newtown is a tragedy that should never be forgotten. I take issue with politicians exploiting tragedies and victims in general to advance an agenda. I've personally stayed away from any interviews because it took place dangerously close to where my cousin's children go to school. We're very close and we're more like brothers and uncles to our respective children. It scared the hell out of me when it happened. I think the left is advancing an agenda to ban weapons when they should be pushing for harder background checks, access to mental health records, even a blacklist if you will, of people not allowed to purchase weapons. I think there's a lack of focus on what the real issue is, which is access to guns by criminals, convicted felons, and the mentally disturbed. I value the freedom of being able to purchase whatever type of weapon I choose. However, that same right should not be extended to everyone. I think the only way to correct that is not to restrict weapons, but the purchasers of said weapons. And before we can even think to ban any weapons, we need to reclaim them from the criminals. Part of the motivation of gun owners in protecting their right to own an arsenal if they choose (I choose not) is fear of being outgunned by the criminals. I would write more, but I'm being distracted by Ace Ventura on Comedy Central.

I'm moving on to the next subject now.Apparently that lovable drug addled gasbag, Rush Limbaugh has accused the families of the Sandy Hook shooting victims, of being 'human shields' for the Democrats.Ah, those compassionate Conservatives.Politico said they were lobbyists,,,,None of them espoused any type of political ideology and in fact insisted that this was not a political issue for them.If it's "not a political issue for them", what are they doing lobbying for new laws?Sounds "political to me,,,,Sorry but I disagree with your description of them being 'paraded' out.In my last post I mentioned the 60 Minutes interview.The families actually reached out to 60 Minutes and asked to be interviewed, not the other way around.And from what I have seen they have asked to appear on other shows as well.I don't believe that anyone is using them.They want to be heard.Sounds political to me,,,,

Hey Puss! This is just like all your old threads now where you talk to yourself. The thread count shows that lots of people read my posts, even if they don't comment. Most big issues today are off limits to you, Miss Head Ball Breaker. The Obama Economy is in horrific shape? Mmmmhph she sez. Obama-care utterly failing? Uhhhhh, well. SDI perhaps the saviour of our country if we're attacked by North Korea or Iran some day? Did ja hear about that tactless statement by Rush Limbaugh? Wailing babies being killed in an abortion clinic? DEAD SILENCE. You lack the courage to address most important issues, moonbat, because you know to do so would expose your dishonesty.

Come on Misty, you're being dense on purpose.No really I'm not.I was born that way.For THEM - for Obama and Democrats, it is a political issue. Otherwise they wouldn't even have to mention this tragedy, and if they did they don't have to show the victims and give the victims a political forum to say what they think. The families are also asking for a forum to speak. They want their stories to be heard, and I think it's insulting to say that they are so stupid that they are just allowing themselves to be used.I know their presence is inconvenient for some people, like the Republicans, but that is no reason to attack or insult them.I think the left is advancing an agenda to ban weapons when they should be pushing for harder background checks, access to mental health records, even a blacklist if you will, of people not allowed to purchase weapons. I think there's a lack of focus on what the real issue is, which is access to guns by criminals, convicted felons, and the mentally disturbed. I value the freedom of being able to purchase whatever type of weapon I choose. However, that same right should not be extended to everyone. I think the only way to correct that is not to restrict weapons, but the purchasers of said weapons. And before we can even think to ban any weapons, we need to reclaim them from the criminals. Part of the motivation of gun owners in protecting their right to own an arsenal if they choose (I choose not) is fear of being outgunned by the criminals. I would write more, but I'm being distracted by Ace Ventura on Comedy Central. I doubt if there will be a ban on any kind of weapon or extended magazines.The background check part will be watered down, and the rest of the things you mentioned will be probably be left out of the bill all together.I would like to see very severe penalties for straw purchasers and gun trafficking, but that won't happen either.

The families are also asking for a forum to speak. They want their stories to be heard, and I think it's insulting to say that they are so stupid that they are just allowing themselves to be used.I think it's stupid to say they aren't playing politics with it when they clearly are,,,,

Politico said they were lobbyists,,,,Well they are in the sense that they have been walking the halls of Congress for the last two days meeting with legislators.They're just not paid lobbyists.You're a lobbyist too, aren't you?If it's "not a political issue for them", what are they doing lobbying for new laws?Sounds "political to me,,,,Why is my Republican Senator (Pat Toomey) working with a Democrat (Joe Manchin) on the bill?I think it's stupid to say they aren't playing politics with it when they clearly are,,,,Is Pat Toomey playing politics?In both New York state and Connecticut, their new gun laws were passed with votes from both parties.I think this shooting almost transcends politics.

I would like to see very severe penalties for straw purchasers and gun trafficking, but that won't happen either.Do you have any idea what the penalty is now for straw purchasing?The last time we talked about a Liberal breaking the law you said that society wouldn't be served by locking David Gregory up.Show some consistency and tell us how society would benefit by locking Gabby's husband up for his straw purchase attempt of that AR15,,,,LOLOLOLWell they are in the sense that they have been walking the halls of Congress for the last two days meeting with legislators.They're just not paid lobbyists.You're a lobbyist too, aren't you?YepA good one tooWhy is my Republican Senator (Pat Toomey) working with a Democrat (Joe Manchin) on the bill?Is Pat Toomey playing politics?Yep, but he's playing stupid politics and will be as loved after this as John McCain is.Why would anybody vote for a wanna be Lib when there is a real one on the ballot?John Kasich lost his Congress seat that way and nearly didn't win his governor's election because of it.Most gun owners voted for the raging Lib (who just happened to be pro-gun) Ted StricklandIn both New York state and Connecticut, their new gun laws were passed with votes from both parties.I think this shooting almost transcends politics.But so far not one damn proposal would have prevented that tragedy.It's nothing but politics, it damn sure ain't practical,,,,

Do you have any idea what the penalty is now for straw purchasing? The last time we talked about a Liberal breaking the law you said that society wouldn't be served by locking David Gregory up. Show some consistency and tell us how society would benefit by locking Gabby's husband up for his straw purchase attempt of that AR15,,,, LOLOLOL I don't know how you classify David Gregory or Mark Kelly as straw purchasers. Were they planning on selling guns to people who could not pass a background check? No, I'm not sure what the penalties are for straw purchasers, but from what I understand the laws against them are not enforced very well. That needs to change. There are people buying guns and selling them to criminals in places like Chicago, and innocent people and children are getting caught in the crossfire. There have been more than 3300 gun deaths since the shooting at Newtown. That's more people than were killed on 9/11, and there's no outrage. I don't get it. Goodnight Chuck, and good luck with your class tomorrow.

for a forum to speak. They want their stories to be heard, and I think it's insulting to say that they are so stupid that they are just allowing themselves to be used. Where does that even come from? Who said those words? Are you really trying to discuss something? Do you have a point about anything other than hating other people questioning a movement you believe in? Because you're just pulling things out of thin air to rationalize what you feel about this particular issue, guns, not the issue of using victims to accomplish political goals and push more controversial or fringe agenda's right after a tragedy. I know their presence is inconvenient for some people, like the Republicans, but that is no reason to attack or insult them. You said that already. If you're going to keep resorting to bringing up the first thing you said like I don't know it happened, then what are you trying to do here? Ok, the people (GOP hosts and what not) you mentioned in the op for this topic were skeptical as to whether Obama is using the victims. Got it. I think Obama and the Democrats are using them too, but it happens all the time. We all know this already. All kinds of issues use recent tragedies to up the ante on legislation: 9-11 got the patriot act passed, the TSA and it's policies created and morphed for the continuing war on terror, elderly people and heat strokes/freezing so people can't get their a/c or heat shut off during certain months, kids falling to their death because of acid got stricter drug laws, mandates and ordinances against the sale of music got created because of heavy metal music and a couple idiots shooting themselves or someone else. It's a political show. It is made political and used for legislative purposes which effect everyones life in this country. It's done by all politicians at some point and if you don't recognize that then you're ignorant or blind.

I don't know how you classify David Gregory or Mark Kelly as straw purchasers.Were they planning on selling guns to people who could not pass a background check?Playing stupid now or did you really forget?David Gregory had an illegal magazine that he was waving around on TVHe was breaking the law doing so, and had asked for special permission to do so which was denied. He knew what he was doing was illegal and did it anyway.You said there was no "benefit to society" in prosecuting himMark Kelly lied on his 4473 when he said he was buying the gun for himself, and once the news got out that he was trying to buy it he said he was buying it to give to the police department. This is not only a crime, but a possible felony which he was allowed to walk away from.This is what makes him a straw purchaserNo, I'm not sure what the penalties are for straw purchasers, but from what I understand the laws against them are not enforced very well.LOLTwo directions I could go with this and I can't decide which way to go so I'll hit them bothFirst, you sound just like one of us, who want the existing laws enforced before new ones are passed, but then again, you don't know what the penalties are already, but you want them to become more severe.Doesn't that sound dumb?That needs to change. There are people buying guns and selling them to criminals in places like Chicago, and innocent people and children are getting caught in the crossfire.Most of the illegal guns in Chicago are STOLEN, not "trafficked"I suppose you want to make stealing guns against the law too?There have been more than 3300 gun deaths since the shooting at Newtown.That's more people than were killed on 9/11, and there's no outrage.I don't get it.And even more killed by autos.Where's the outrage?Goodnight Chuck, and good luck with your class tomorrow.I'm hitting it myself as wellThink of me while you're having lunch tomorrowAbout that time I'll be on the range, handing loaded guns to people who have never held one before, turning them into Bulls eye artists.I have a free spot just for you if you guys ever make it out this wayBut you husband's gotta pay for his,,,,

Ilyse Hogue is exactly right. Denying women access to safe and affordable abortion care will only drive the practice underground, and create more butchers like Kermit Gosnell. And still not one single word of concern or sympathy from the moonbat for the dead babies, including one who wailed as it was being killed. Abortion and the accompanying loss of human life is one of the very, very, very few areas of Americans' lives that liberals don't want regulated. They treat rats better than they treat fetuses and late term babies.

Grisly Abortion Clinic Trial Is 'Peek Into The World Before Roe v. Wade' Ilyse Hogue is exactly right. Denying women access to safe and affordable abortion care will only drive the practice underground, and create more butchers like Kermit Gosnell. Look at all the overwhelming concern little Miss Marxist has for all those dead babies. Surely the, snicker, unbiased MSM have made this a huge scandal, just like they did with the Michael Vick dog fighting thing. Naaah, I mean, what's more important, dogs or murdered babies? Politico and Atlantic.com’s turn to explain Gosnell blackout ......here’s what I found out. Politico‘s search engine pops out 165 results on Trayvon Martin (local crime story in Florida), 94 stories on Komen, 233 on Sandra Fluke and 866 on Todd Akin. Guess how many stories Politico has published on Gosnell. Did you guess zero? You win! .....I follow the prolific tweeter Garance Franke-Ruta from Atlantic.com. Her twitter bio says “Senior editor, @TheAtlantic. Your early warning system. Politics, media, breaking.” I know she loved loved loved to tweet about Fluke and Akin and Komen and all that. Couldn’t get enough of it. But I hadn’t seen anything on Gosnell from her. I plugged it into the Alantic.com’s search engine and there was a story about Gosnell! I clicked on it. It wasn’t a story so much as a very brief mention in a lengthy roundup of the day’s news. Back in March. And that was it. Atlantic.com hadn’t covered Gosnell at all. But did they cover Trayvon Martin? (247 hits) What about Komen? (97) Fluke? (131) Should I ask about Akin? (296). So I asked her about it. Here’s what she said (before deleting it later): Hi Mollie. I have not had a blackout on him; I picked up the story in March and expect to do so again at some point. See if you can find her coverage of Gosnell here. It’s a brief snippet of a New York Times story on Gosnell from the start the trial. It runs 155 words. And the first sentence is wrong (newborn babies aren’t fetuses). But whatever. I think we all must agree with her point. She briefly mentioned Gosnell in a link round-up in March. What more do you people want? I suggested that a brief mention in a link-fest wasn’t quite on the same par as the top 8 hits (out of, remember, 97) on Komen. Check out these headlines: Top Susan G. Komen Official Resigned Over Planned Parenthood … Feb 2, 2012 … Sources with knowledge of the Koman process said recent policies were adopted specifically to cut funding for Planned Parenthood. Komen VP Karen Handel Quits Over Planned Parenthood Dispute … Feb 7, 2012 … The one-time gubernatorial candidate from Georgia who ran on a pro-life platform admitted she wanted funding cut to the network of clinics. An Inside Look at Susan G. Komen for the Cure’s Spin Machine … Feb 3, 2012 … Internal documents circulated by Komen officials instructing employees how to respond when confronted with questions about funding. Who Bullied the Susan G. Komen Foundation Into Cutting Funding … Feb 10, 2012 … Karen Handel, the recently-departed Komen VP contradicts her organization in explaining the reasoning for defunding Planned Parenthood. Why Did Susan G. Komen Pull the Plug on Planned Parenthood … Feb 2, 2012 … The two organizations seemed like natural allies. Why cut ties now? How the Church and Susan Komen Place Themselves Before … Feb 11, 2012 … Ultimately, Americans want the freedom to make personal health decisions on their own, without the various institutions around us. The Komen Foundation’s Black Eye – Linda Hirshman – The Atlantic Feb 1, 2012 … By no longer donating to organizations “under investigation,” the Susan G. Komen Foundation is replacing its pink ribbons with a black list. Who Is Behind Susan G. Komen’s Split From Planned Parenthood … Feb 1, 2012 … The mysterious decision by the leading breast-cancer charity to stop funding the country’s most prominent reproductive-health provider.Those are just the first eight hits. So pardon me if I’m just a tad less than impressed. Since Franke-Ruta is “senior editor” there and known for covering abortion-related stories, I kept asking for an explanation that made sense. She responded, “I don’t know why you’re acting like I assigned every Atlantic article ever written,” deleted her initial tweet and then ignored the reader deluge of questions to her about the disparate coverage.http://www.patheos.c...snell-blackout/

Go sleep it off somewhere else.Try Clem's Flying Monkey thread. It's nice and quiet in there. I tried but the crickets in there will drive you nuts.

Misty is a liar, and she knows it. She lies to further her agenda of baby killing and suffering. Liberals really are dishonest. After the fall of the USSR, Poland gained independence and banned abortion [which had been legal in the Soviet Union since 1921] - and abortion rates fell 99%. VERY few 'alley butchers' began operating, like deceitful, despicable liars like Misty here like to claim would arise if the United States were to outlaw abortion. Stop spreading your agenda of death and suffering through the use of lies, Liberals!

I'm moving on to the next subject now. People had to sedate themselves, they were so excited in anticipation. Gosh, Obama's been caught in yet another lie. Imagine that. Lying to keep spending high, despite a $1 trillion annual deficit. Obamageddon: The Flop World ends, public barely notices . A rule of thumb to divining the politics of the Obama White House is to become a slavish reader of opinion polls. As they go, this White House likely will go. Recall the budget sequester, which had Mr. Obama traveling the land in February predicting the end of days from the automatic spending cuts. We dubbed it Obamageddon..... The sequester happened. And the WSJ-NBC poll out this week asked people what impact it has had on them. A great deal 9%; quite a bit 7%; some 17%. That's a more than 50-point drop in the sequester's fear factor. Maybe the GOP should start scripting "Sequester: The Sequel." http://online.wsj.co...on_AboveLEFTTop