Liberal Forum

ROG62 » 29 Oct 2023, 8:01 am » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 8:01 am

Ouch...while still a waste, thank god the '59 was a 4 door...

I totally understand why the car companies do not test (and certify) older cars.
The degradation due to corrosion and fatigue are huge variables.

I gotta believe this failed and ugly test of a 1959 car was a thoroughly inspected vehicle.
There was a bit of brown dust during the crunch however. Can't get it all out.

My friends that revere these old bombs laugh when I tell them they're driving death traps.
I find it funny sitting in a car with pretty, chromed, zinc buttons and knobs pointing at my teeth and eye sockets.
I always liked the 59 Buick Electra though. All pointy and huge.


 
 

jerrab » 28 Oct 2023, 11:27 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Oct 2023, 11:27 pm

2010 civic

Exactly. Your premise is cars don't have rigid metal bumpers anymore due to cost, when it's clearly not as safe for passenger cars as crumple zones which cost WAY MORE in engineering.

Str8tEdge » 29 Oct 2023, 9:58 am » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 9:58 am

Exactly. Your premise is cars don't have rigid metal bumpers anymore due to cost, when it's clearly not as safe for passenger cars as crumple zones which cost WAY MORE in engineering.

crumple zones do not protect. they may have reinforced the interiors but break away outer parts do not insure safety. cats have shock absorbers in their feet and they can land in a fall that would kill a man, but their legs are not break aways and fragile.

Str8tEdge » 29 Oct 2023, 9:58 am » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 9:58 am

Exactly. Your premise is cars don't have rigid metal bumpers anymore due to cost, when it's clearly not as safe for passenger cars as crumple zones which cost WAY MORE in engineering.

---------------------------------------

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... %2C%202015).


Cats have a very special body structure that plays a significant role in movements such as running, jumping and landing (Hildebrand, 1959; Koob & Long, 2000). It is a common phenomenon that cats can jump from great heights and land safely, and this has attracted the interest of many researchers. Research related to movement patterns in mammals has been mainly associated with three areas: the patterns of movement (Alexander, Langman & Jayes, 1977; Bertram & Gutmann, 2009), self-stabilization mechanisms (Hackert, Schilling & Fischer, 2006), and the most effective movement mode (Alexander & Jayes, 1981; Alexander, Dimery & Ker, 1985). To date, the last aspect has attracted the most attention. In order to investigate the special landing skills of cats, the self-righting maneuvers of free-falling cats have been captured using high-speed photography. The results demonstrated the crucial role of the cat’s head position in transferring momentum to the body, which facilitated axial rotation allowing the animal to land on its feet (O’Leary & Ravasio, 1984). The cat is considered a hindlimb-driven quadruped, however, the forelimbs appear to have greater force-generating capacity than the hindlimbs

//////------------------- plus cats have padded paws which cushions falls. if car makers designed cats and gave them break away bones all cats would have broken legs by the time they are one year old.
 
 

jerrab » 29 Oct 2023, 11:49 am » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 11:49 am

---------------------------------------

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... %2C%202015).

Cats have a very special body structure that plays a significant role in movements such as running, jumping and landing (Hildebrand, 1959; Koob & Long, 2000). It is a common phenomenon that cats can jump from great heights and land safely, and this has attracted the interest of many researchers. Research related to movement patterns in mammals has been mainly associated with three areas: the patterns of movement (Alexander, Langman & Jayes, 1977; Bertram & Gutmann, 2009), self-stabilization mechanisms (Hackert, Schilling & Fischer, 2006), and the most effective movement mode (Alexander & Jayes, 1981; Alexander, Dimery & Ker, 1985). To date, the last aspect has attracted the most attention. In order to investigate the special landing skills of cats, the self-righting maneuvers of free-falling cats have been captured using high-speed photography. The results demonstrated the crucial role of the cat’s head position in transferring momentum to the body, which facilitated axial rotation allowing the animal to land on its feet (O’Leary & Ravasio, 1984). The cat is considered a hindlimb-driven quadruped, however, the forelimbs appear to have greater force-generating capacity than the hindlimbs

//////------------------- plus cats have padded paws which cushions falls. if car makers designed cats and gave them break away bones all cats would have broken legs by the time they are one year old.

Do you know blacks really have different bone and joint  structures?
That's why they boogie down so good. They move like rubber bands. Limber
Whites move like stiffs. lol

My nasty father worked in construction... He told me- The Injuns are the ones that go high- high up... with no fear.
Sure footed. He told me its a fact in the construction industry....lol
i get in a world of sheet saying this.  
 
 

jerrab » 27 Oct 2023, 10:11 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 10:11 pm

cars today have no bumpers, made with cheap metal, what would have been a dented bumper now is front or rear damage that would cost thousands yet the manufactures charge 23,000 at least for new cars and even used cars are the same, no bumpers front or back and made with cheap metal.

I haven't purchased a brand new off the lot vehicle since 1991, and that was the only time I ever have... simply because it was a deal I couldn't pass on because the lot was liquidating due to tax troubles.

I got a Ford Ranger XLT extra cab that was stickered for 11,990 for $6200. I kept it three years, put 30K on the odometer and sold it for $5500. The only thing I didn't like was it had absolutely no top end to speak of.  It had a 2.3 liter I-4 that would only run about 90mph on the highway and you had to downshift into fourth on the upgrades... other that that, it was a nice little truck.

Late model low mileage used cars have always just make more financial sense, to me anyway. Let somebody else take that depreciation hit.

 

sootedupCyndi » 29 Oct 2023, 12:29 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 12:29 pm

Do you know blacks really have different bone and joint  structures?
That's why they boogie down so good. They move like rubber bands. Limber
Whites move like stiffs. lol

My nasty father worked in construction... He told me- The Injuns are the ones that go high- high up... with no fear.
Sure footed. He told me its a fact in the construction industry....lol
i get in a world of sheet saying this.

there is a group I think like in tibet that needs less oxygen.
 

jerrab » 29 Oct 2023, 1:04 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 1:04 pm

there is a group I think like in tibet that need less oxygen.

my thoughts have always been?
Humans are just like DOGS?  One breed retrieves balls and  one swims... like a lab?
I've had so many breeds- The one I have now is a German Schnauzer.. Considered a guard dog. The dude- will guard a empty  dog food bag?  for weeks
we give him one to keep him outta our hair? he happy!  
 

sootedupCyndi » 29 Oct 2023, 1:16 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 1:16 pm

my thoughts have always been?
Humans are just like DOGS?  One breed retrieves balls and  one swims... like a lab?
I've had so many breeds- The one I have now is a German Schnauzer.. Considered a guard dog. The dude- will guard a empty  dog food bag?  for weeks
we give him one to keep him outta our hair? he happy!

cats are pretty much the same, dogs differ quite a bit. I have a pit bull that is not at like the ones who attack, he is totally not aggressive and is very friendly. I also have 5  cats and he never bothers them at all.

jerrab » 29 Oct 2023, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 11:26 am

crumple zones do not protect. they may have reinforced the interiors but break away outer parts do not insure safety. cats have shock absorbers in their feet and they can land in a fall that would kill a man, but their legs are not break aways and fragile.

They absolutely do. They absorb the impact of a crash just like a shock absorber......

jerrab » 29 Oct 2023, 1:27 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 1:27 pm

cats are pretty much the same, dogs differ quite a bit. I have a pit bull that is not at like the ones who attack, he is totally not aggressive and is very friendly. I also have 5  cats and he never bothers them at all.

We had  cluster of friends?
Evey-one brought their dog for a visit at my house . lol

Starting at the smallest- there was a Chilawawa.  ( spelling) The most vicious. 6 lbs?

next was my dog- He sat on the bed in fear-  **** tzu_ He wanted no part in it.... just watched.... very smart. voyeur.

3rd was my Mini schnauzer-  in luv with the first one! next was

A golden? nice breed-

next was 
 a big yellow husky thing with huge feet.
the last was a blind - pit bull?
We just sat still_ and you know the dogs all worked it out...
we had 5 or 6 dogs in the house... they work out their Hierarchy

Str8tEdge » 29 Oct 2023, 2:07 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 2:07 pm

They absolutely do. They absorb the impact of a crash just like a shock absorber......

oh really? try dropping a car from even two feet. a piece of cake for a cat.

jerrab » 29 Oct 2023, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

29 Oct 2023, 11:26 am

crumple zones do not protect. they may have reinforced the interiors but break away outer parts do not insure safety. cats have shock absorbers in their feet and they can land in a fall that would kill a man, but their legs are not break aways and fragile.

You do not understand what crumple zones are obviously.

It is not a single piece or assembly. It is many parts acting in concert to mitigate traumatic energy displacement.
Look at the hood reinforcement. The hood inner panel for instance. There is no straight section leading from front to back.
In fact, if there is a part of that assy. that is nearly a "pipe", it will have intentionally narrowed features.
The collision will cause the hood assy. to buckle at those "dents". The steering column is also not a straight pipe.
It has a U joint and/or is angled so to break away from becoming a spear. 

The point is that it's a system. A compromise of structural integrity and intentional weakness.

Extreme examples of the same concept can be found in formula one race cars and hydroplane racers.
In a high speed mishap, they disintegrate everything except the occupant's protective cage.

The cat's leg example is not a sacrificial element like a fender.

DeezerShoove » 30 Oct 2023, 8:37 am » wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2023, 8:37 am

You do not understand what crumple zones are obviously.

It is not a single piece or assembly. It is many parts acting in concert to mitigate traumatic energy displacement.
Look at the hood reinforcement. The hood inner panel for instance. There is no straight section leading from front to back.
In fact, if there is a part of that assy. that is nearly a "pipe", it will have intentionally narrowed features.
The collision will cause the hood assy. to buckle at those "dents". The steering column is also not a straight pipe.
It has a U joint and/or is angled so to break away from becoming a spear. 

The point is that it's a system. A compromise of structural integrity and intentional weakness.

Extreme examples of the same concept can be found in formula one race cars and hydroplane racers.
In a high speed mishap, they disintegrate everything except the occupant's protective cage.

The cat's leg example is not a sacrificial element like a fender.

when it cost 2000 thousand dollars to replace a fender and a broken tail light it is usually paid by insurance companies. now are insurance companies going to just hand out all that money? nope, they are going to raise the rates on everyone. I don't how having no bumpers is a safety feature.

jerrab » 30 Oct 2023, 9:01 am » wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2023, 9:01 am

when it cost 2000 thousand dollars to replace a fender and a broken tail light it is usually paid by insurance companies. now are insurance companies going to just hand out all that money? nope, they are going to raise the rates on everyone. I don't how having no bumpers is a safety feature.

As was mentioned before by another poster (and I alluded to) the bumper is under the fascia.
It is illegal to produce a vehicle that does not meet impact standards.
Just because it isn't a visible chromed metal bar does not mean there is no bumper.

We just cover them with a pretty painted (and expensive) plastic cover.
Its main function is styling but it also contributes to drag reduction (important for mpg rating).

jerrab » 30 Oct 2023, 9:01 am » wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2023, 9:01 am

when it cost 2000 thousand dollars to replace a fender and a broken tail light it is usually paid by insurance companies. now are insurance companies going to just hand out all that money? nope, they are going to raise the rates on everyone. I don't how having no bumpers is a safety feature.

You can thank another gov fatwa for that mandatory insurance.  

DeezerShoove » 30 Oct 2023, 9:35 am » wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2023, 9:35 am

As was mentioned before by another poster (and I alluded to) the bumper is under the fascia.
It is illegal to produce a vehicle that does not meet impact standards.
Just because it isn't a visible chromed metal bar does not mean there is no bumper.

We just cover them with a pretty painted (and expensive) plastic cover.
Its main function is styling but it also contributes to drag reduction (important for mpg rating).

that is not a bumper, a bumper sticks out.

DeezerShoove » 30 Oct 2023, 9:35 am » wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2023, 9:35 am

As was mentioned before by another poster (and I alluded to) the bumper is under the fascia.
It is illegal to produce a vehicle that does not meet impact standards.
Just because it isn't a visible chromed metal bar does not mean there is no bumper.

We just cover them with a pretty painted (and expensive) plastic cover.
Its main function is styling but it also contributes to drag reduction (important for mpg rating).

this car has a real bumper. at the point of impact of a 5 mile crash, the bumper might get a slight dent while today's cars it will be a 2,000 repair job.


 

jerrab » 30 Oct 2023, 10:50 am » wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2023, 10:50 am

this car has a real bumper. at the point of impact of a 5 mile crash, the bumper might get a slight dent while today's cars it will be a 2,000 repair job.

Trying running that into a brick wall and see what gives: the wall, the car, or you.  

All of this design and production is a tradeoff, but you'd be able to choose a car like that in a free market.  But government fatwas have eliminated that.  
 

LincolnNebraska » 30 Oct 2023, 10:56 am » wrote: ↑

30 Oct 2023, 10:56 am

Trying running that into a brick wall and see what gives: the wall, the car, or you.  

All of this design and production a tradeoff, but you'd be able to choose a car like that in a free market.  But government fatwas have eliminated that.

at 5 miles or under it will be the bumper.