Liberal Forum

Tempest62 » 05 Nov 2023, 1:27 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 1:27 pm

Is this true?

https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/ori ... 1947-1977/

Kind of long but will give you some perspective on what was being said back then from other countries.

One thing I believe is quite clear, the Arab Nations wanted nothing to do with having a Western Front on their doorstep.

RebelGator » 05 Nov 2023, 10:30 am » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 10:30 am

You left out a convenient detail also......if not for Israel they wouldn't have had any water at all.

Maybe Israel cut off the water so Hamas couldn't poison the Palestinians and blame it on Israel. 

My suppositions are more valid and believable than your's. 

what about electricity?

Fuelman » 05 Nov 2023, 1:58 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 1:58 pm

Can't say for sure, I think most of us are playing catch up on all the crap and history of the area.
I do believe Vegas is correct in saying the Arabs cast the first stone. Mainly due to the Partition Plan.

A group of people can only call themselves victims so many times before red flags start popping up. For example, blacks still do that. They incessantly claim that they are victims of oppression, police brutality, systematic racism, violence, etc...However, it's unlikely that they can be genuine victims today. Sure, back in slavery and Jim Crow. But today? After researching, one will find that they are not victims. They bring this **** on themselves. Whites have nothing to do with their plight of today. 

It's the same thing with Israel. They have displayed themselves as victims year after year, decade after decade. After a while, you have to raise some eyebrows as to the validity of their victim status. After researching things, it becomes abundantly clear that they are not victims. They bring these attacks against them on themselves. There are other ways to draw first blood than using force. 

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm

A group of people can only call themselves victims so many times before red flags start popping up. For example, blacks still do that. They incessantly claim that they are victims of oppression, police brutality, systematic racism, violence, etc...However, it's unlikely that they can be genuine victims today. Sure, back in slavery and Jim Crow. But today? After researching, one will find that they are not victims. They bring this **** on themselves. Whites have nothing to do with their plight of today. 

It's the same thing with Israel. They have displayed themselves as victims year after year, decade after decade. After a while, you have to raise some eyebrows as to the validity of their victim status. After researching things, it becomes abundantly clear that they are not victims. They bring these attacks against them on themselves. There are other ways to draw first blood than using force.

Invalid comparison.......no one is oppressing blacks while Islam's charter is to kill Jews.
 

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 1:20 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 1:20 pm

What money? Israel built a blockade to prevent Palestine from entering free trade. They shot the Palestinians into poverty. I don't know why you still trust Israel after everything that @Cannonpointer  and I presented to you. They aren't victims.

Where do you think the billions of dollars are going to fund the jihad? You think israel gets monetary support from the US? Nothing compared to the money flowing in from the Uma to support the murder of jews. Gaza could be a nice place, if they used the money to help their citizens instead of waging war. Arafat and other Palestinian leaders retired very rich men. It's the blm scam on a far larger scale. 
 

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 11:06 am » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 11:06 am

Does this also apply to Israel? Because they did this first. 

Israel has done far worse. But nobody wants to talk about that. 

The hell I can't. Killing 1000s of civilians to get one Hamas dude? Please. There is no justification for that. None.

Are you going to source Palestinian propaganda sources like the ones who lied about Israel bombing a hospital?      

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 2:34 pm

It's the same thing with Israel. They have displayed themselves as victims year after year, decade after decade. After a while, you have to raise some eyebrows as to the validity of their victim status. After researching things, it becomes abundantly clear that they are not victims. They bring these attacks against them on themselves. There are other ways to draw first blood than using force.

I guess I've never considered them victims. When you kick *** on everyone that has attacked you in the last 75 years, that doesn't fit into my victim column.

I came across this which I believe you have mentioned several times:

Domination and ControlAccording to advocates, the Domination and Control trope is the one most commonly used and believed in today’s society. For example, the gunman in Colleyville, TX (see main story) targeted a synagogue because he believed that the Jews had the power to free a convicted terrorist serving an 86-year sentence in New York City, whom he wanted released. This particular trope dates back to the Middle Ages and has adapted over the years. It was reinforced in 1903 with the publication of an anti-Semitic text, titled “The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion,” which falsely claimed to be minutes from a meeting of Jewish leaders where plans for global domination were discussed. Adolph Hitler used the lies in this document to spread hatred for the Jewish people by blaming them for economic hardships experienced by Germans. It was even used as a teaching tool in German schools to reinforce hatred of the Jews. This conspiracy theory is still prevalent today with repeated false accusations that Jews control the world financial system and the media, including the press, and the music and film industries. ADL’s 2020 survey revealed that 15% of respondents believe that Jews have too much power in the business world and 17% think “the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews.”

I haven't taken one step in the life of a Jew or Arab, I'm having a hard time passing judgement on either side.

Islam is a very large departure from my beliefs so there is that, I can admit to bias.
 

Fuelman » 05 Nov 2023, 3:22 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:22 pm

I guess I've never considered them victims. When you kick *** on everyone that has attacked you in the last 75 years, that doesn't fit into my victim column.

I came across this which I believe you have mentioned several times:

Domination and ControlAccording to advocates, the Domination and Control trope is the one most commonly used and believed in today’s society. For example, the gunman in Colleyville, TX (see main story) targeted a synagogue because he believed that the Jews had the power to free a convicted terrorist serving an 86-year sentence in New York City, whom he wanted released. This particular trope dates back to the Middle Ages and has adapted over the years. It was reinforced in 1903 with the publication of an anti-Semitic text, titled “The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion,” which falsely claimed to be minutes from a meeting of Jewish leaders where plans for global domination were discussed. Adolph Hitler used the lies in this document to spread hatred for the Jewish people by blaming them for economic hardships experienced by Germans. It was even used as a teaching tool in German schools to reinforce hatred of the Jews. This conspiracy theory is still prevalent today with repeated false accusations that Jews control the world financial system and the media, including the press, and the music and film industries. ADL’s 2020 survey revealed that 15% of respondents believe that Jews have too much power in the business world and 17% think “the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews.”

I haven't taken one step in the life of a Jew or Arab, I'm having a hard time passing judgement on either side.

Islam is a very large departure from my beliefs so there is that, I can admit to bias.

It's my understanding that they don't want global domination, they want the Middle East. 

Neo » 05 Nov 2023, 3:04 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:04 pm

Where do you think the billions of dollars are going to fund the jihad? You think israel gets monetary support from the US? Nothing compared to the money flowing in from the Uma to support the murder of jews. Gaza could be a nice place, if they used the money to help their citizens instead of waging war. Arafat and other Palestinian leaders retired very rich men. It's the blm scam on a far larger scale.

Israel drew first blood. Period. If they would stop encroaching and illegally taking land, then maybe they wouldn't get attacked so much. Ever thought of that?

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 3:35 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:35 pm

It's my understanding that they don't want global domination, they want the Middle East.

Your understanding is wrong. Their faith demands that all convert to Islam or pay the jizza. Islam demands submission by all. 
 

RebelGator » 05 Nov 2023, 2:44 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 2:44 pm

Invalid comparison.......no one is oppressing blacks while Islam's charter is to kill Jews.

The point of the comparison is that both call themselves victims, but neither one of them are. If a group incessantly calls themselves victims, time and time again, then red flags should be popping up. 

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 3:36 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:36 pm

Israel drew first blood. Period. If they would stop encroaching and illegally taking land, then maybe they wouldn't get attacked so much. Ever thought of that?

Period blood

Day one of its existence Israel was attacked. Before it was formally a nation Muslims targeted and killed jews living in the area. Look up the progmons of the 1920s. 
 

Neo » 05 Nov 2023, 3:37 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:37 pm

Islam demands submission by all.

     No, it isn't. Maybe to the extremist, but not to the other couple billion. 

Neo » 05 Nov 2023, 3:39 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:39 pm

Day one of its existence Israel was attacked. Before it was formally a nation Muslims targeted and killed jews living in the area. Look up the progmons of the 1920s.

Nope. Israel made it clear what their intention was...to expand their territory and swallow up the land of Palestine. They are doing it. 

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 3:41 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:41 pm

Nope. Israel made it clear what their intention was...to expand their territory and swallow up the land of Palestine. They are doing it.

There is no Palestine. Never has been. 
 

Neo » 05 Nov 2023, 3:42 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 3:42 pm

There is no Palestine. Never has been.

Uggggjhhhhhhh....yes, you said that already. When you say that it is because I cornered you, it's the only cop out you can come up with. Either rebut what I say or don't say anything at all. This cop-out has already run its course. 

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 4:16 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 4:16 pm

Uggggjhhhhhhh....yes, you said that already. When you say that it is because I cornered you, it's the only cop out you can come up with. Either rebut what I say or don't say anything at all. This cop-out has already run its course.

Regional Arabs were offered a Palestine on three different occasions. Every time they chose war, they chose Jihad. Time to take the offer off the table. From the river to the sea, Israel will be free. 
 

Tempest62 » 05 Nov 2023, 11:17 am » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 11:17 am

I’d like to be learn about this. I look forward to an education……including any basis in Zionism.

I suiggest reading James Michener's novel "The Source". Also there are dozens of youtube videos about 
 Israel and Palestine.  Wikipedia will tell you all about Zionism.  Google the phrase "next year in Jerusalem".

Here's a fact you won't ever hear in the media or from the Left: If you were an Arab and you stayed in Israel proper after the 1948 war between 1948 and 1967, you automatically became a citizen of the state of Israel.

Vegas » 05 Nov 2023, 12:28 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Nov 2023, 12:28 pm

It was sarcasm.

Sergei try better at understand english  Спасибо