Liberal Forum

RedheadedStranger » 28 Dec 2023, 2:20 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 2:20 pm

What makes you think it's up to Biden?

That dodering old coot doesn't even know what day it is anymore.

********************************************************t is clear that the U.S. and its allies were out to sabotage possibilities for peace immediately after the Russian invasion. Were it not for their interference, the current war could have ended in early March 2022—about a week after it started. Thanks to Arakhamia, we now have confirmation of this fact.He was at the talks in Belarus and said the Russians would halt the invasion and leave Ukraine if there was agreement on Ukrainian military neutrality and its leaders gave up on NATO membership.Rather than report this to the public, however, the media in Europe and the U.S. focused on sensational statements that were not actually part of those negotiations. They insisted that the Russians made official demands in the talks to “de-Nazify” a country that the Allies said had no Nazis. Further, Russia supposedly demanded direct control of not only the eastern Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine but also other vast stretches of the country.

jerrab » 28 Dec 2023, 3:33 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:33 pm

********************************************************t is clear that the U.S. and its allies were out to sabotage possibilities for peace immediately after the Russian invasion. Were it not for their interference, the current war could have ended in early March 2022—about a week after it started. Thanks to Arakhamia, we now have confirmation of this fact.He was at the talks in Belarus and said the Russians would halt the invasion and leave Ukraine if there was agreement on Ukrainian military neutrality and its leaders gave up on NATO membership.Rather than report this to the public, however, the media in Europe and the U.S. focused on sensational statements that were not actually part of those negotiations. They insisted that the Russians made official demands in the talks to “de-Nazify” a country that the Allies said had no Nazis. Further, Russia supposedly demanded direct control of not only the eastern Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine but also other vast stretches of the country.

I'm happy putin attacked Ukraine. He can get 20% of Ukraine and nato grew by 40%  good deal for the west. 

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 3:32 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:32 pm

The goal was no natobership for nato.  Now Ukraine will join nato. No doubt about it. Russia started the war to stop nato expansion amd nato grew leaps and bounds. Putin failed in all his goals.

Putin wanted Crimea.  He took it under Obama's watch.  Putin won.
Putin wanted Eastern Ukraine.  He took it under Biden's watch.  Putin will likely win.
Putin does not care about NATO, never cared about NATO, only cared about taking as much of Ukraine and Crimea as he possibly could, and you are a fool for believing Putin's vapid claims as such.
 

Skans » 28 Dec 2023, 3:35 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:35 pm

Putin wanted Crimea.  He took it under Obama's watch.  Putin won.
Putin wanted Eastern Ukraine.  He took it under Biden's watch.  Putin will likely win.
Putin does not care about NATO, never cared about NATO, only cared about taking as much of Ukraine and Crimea as he possibly could, and you are a fool for believing Putin's vapid claims as such.

Yep and in order for this to never happen again Ukraine will join nato . Sweden and Finland joined nato expanding the nato border with Russia by 60%  Russia gain 20% of Ukraine and lost on all of stated goals of invasion. Under Biden putin lost. 

I'm actually happy with the outcome.

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 3:32 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:32 pm

The goal was no natobership for nato.  Now Ukraine will join nato. No doubt about it. Russia started the war to stop nato expansion amd nato grew leaps and bounds. Putin failed in all his goals.

I am sure nato is furious at biden for insisting for the war to continue and give arms to ukraine, now russia is pissed at all of them plus they have had problems with other things.

And the world has witnessed that Russia is actually a paper tiger.

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 3:39 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:39 pm

Yep and in order for this to never happen again Ukraine will join nato . Sweden and Finland joined nato expanding the nato border with Russia by 60%  Russia gain 20% of Ukraine and lost on all of stated goals of invasion. Under Biden putin lost.

Boy are you dumb.  The only OTHER land Putin cares about, other than Ukraine, is the Kaliningrad Oblast, nestled between Lithuania and Poland.  Lithuania is easier pickings than Poland.

Lithuania and Poland should team up to take Kalingrad ( Königsberg ) from Russia cutting off its access to the Baltic Sea.
 

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 3:39 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:39 pm

Yep and in order for this to never happen again Ukraine will join nato . Sweden and Finland joined nato expanding the nato border with Russia by 60%  Russia gain 20% of Ukraine and lost on all of stated goals of invasion. Under Biden putin lost.

what stated goals? did you not read this?---------------------------


Thanks to Arakhamia, we now have confirmation of this fact.He was at the talks in Belarus and said the Russians would halt the invasion and leave Ukraine if there was agreement on Ukrainian military neutrality and its leaders gave up on NATO

And it will take some decades to repair the international deals that Russia enjoyed before invasion. Shift the biggest economies away from Russian investment. Which putin thought not possible before invasion.

jerrab » 28 Dec 2023, 3:46 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:46 pm

what stated goals? did you not read this?---------------------------

Thanks to Arakhamia, we now have confirmation of this fact.He was at the talks in Belarus and said the Russians would halt the invasion and leave Ukraine if there was agreement on Ukrainian military neutrality and its leaders gave up on NATO

Well now Ukraine will join nato. His stated goal has failed. 

Putin pushed Finland and Sweden along with Ukraine into NATO. Now try and tell me that putin wanted that. Then I'll laugh in your face.

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 3:50 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:50 pm

Well now Ukraine will join nato. His stated goal has failed. 

 

You realize this would cross a line that will spark the next world war, the West vs. Russia-China-Iran which will be a sure fire end if the West?

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 3:50 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:50 pm

Well now Ukraine will join nato. His stated goal has failed.

where did you see ukraine will join nato?

Tempest62 » 28 Dec 2023, 3:54 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:54 pm

You realize this would cross a line that will spark the next world war, the West vs. Russia-China-Iran which will be a sure fire end if the West?

Nah the west has better equipment and has planned and war gamed for this. The Ukraine war started by putin just excellerated the inevitable. The little ground that putin gained will not help Russia in the long run. Putin awakened the west. Now Japan Germany France Sweden Finland and all of the west is getting ready for something they thought impossible. Not good for Iran China and Russia. Military spending by the west is growing leaps and bounds. Putin just awakened the beast. 

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 12:52 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 12:52 am

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/ ... ease-fire/

And I bet the Republicans attack Biden if he takes a deal. Wanta bet?

Most likely the open deal is what he wants or nothing at all. Anything Putin would concede will be symbolic for Ukraine and America over substance goes to Russia.

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 3:50 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 3:50 pm

Well now Ukraine will join nato. His stated goal has failed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.cato.org/commentary/dont-le ... -join-nato

Ukraine should not be welcomed into NATO, and this is something U.S. President Joe Biden should make clear. Kyiv’s resistance to Russian aggression has been heroic, but ultimately states do what is in their self‐​interest. And here, the security benefits to the United States of Ukrainian accession pale in comparison with the risks of bringing it into the alliance. Admitting Ukraine to NATO would raise the prospect of a grim choice between a war with Russia and the devastating consequences involved or backing down and devaluing NATO’s security guarantee across the entire alliance. At the Vilnius summit and beyond, NATO leaders would be wise to acknowledge these facts and close the door to Ukraine.
 

jerrab » 28 Dec 2023, 4:07 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 4:07 pm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.cato.org/commentary/dont-le ... -join-nato

Ukraine should not be welcomed into NATO, and this is something U.S. President Joe Biden should make clear. Kyiv’s resistance to Russian aggression has been heroic, but ultimately states do what is in their self‐​interest. And here, the security benefits to the United States of Ukrainian accession pale in comparison with the risks of bringing it into the alliance. Admitting Ukraine to NATO would raise the prospect of a grim choice between a war with Russia and the devastating consequences involved or backing down and devaluing NATO’s security guarantee across the entire alliance. At the Vilnius summit and beyond, NATO leaders would be wise to acknowledge these facts and close the door to Ukraine.

Nato expanded and grew more than anything putin gained. It was a strategic loss for the Russian empire. 

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 4:04 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 4:04 pm

Nah the west has better equipment and has planned and war gamed for this. The Ukraine war started by putin just excellerated the inevitable. The little ground that putin gained will not help Russia in the long run. Putin awakened the west. Now Japan Germany France Sweden Finland and all of the west is getting ready for something they thought impossible. Not good for Iran China and Russia. Military spending by the west is growing leaps and bounds. Putin just awakened the beast.

the war was started by biden and europe knows that. 

It's not that hard to understand putin didn't want NATO expansion. Now we have NATO expansion. Total loss for the Russian pact.