Do you often blame the dead for getting killed?maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 10:11 am » wrote: ↑ Three years ago:
Kabul: One suicide bomber
13 American dead, 100 (est) Afghanis dead
Folks here claim it was the most embarrassing moment in American history. Joe Biden is a horrible president for letting it happen.
Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we?
April 1983. Beirut, Lebanon
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right into the courtyard of the US Embassy on the corniche in West Beirut, drives right up under the building's porte-cochère, and detonates. 63 dead: 32 Lebanese, 17 Americans, 14 visitors and passers-by.
Oddly enough, even though the previous Naval Attache, a Marine Colonel, had strongly recommended cement security barriers in front of the embassy, none had been installed.
Same City. Five months and two days later
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up the front stairs of the US Marine barracks at the Beirut International Airport, drives right into the front lobby, and detonates. 241 Dead Marines.
Oddly enough, even after a suicide bomber had used the exact same weapon in the exact same manner in the same city against the only OTHER US target in that city, cement security barriers had still not been installed.
Same City. 362 days later.
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up into the courtyard of the brand new US Embassy in a posh neighborhood of East Beirut. drives right up next to the building and detonates. 23 dead. 2 US servicemen, 21 Lebanese. Both the US Ambassador to Lebanon and the British Ambassador to Lebanon were both injured in the blast.
Oddly enough, even after suicide bombers had used the exact same weapons in the exact same manner in the same city against TWO OTHER US targets in that city, cement security barriers had STILL not been installed at the new Embassy either.
Folks here don't even remember it, and they think that Ronald Reagan - who was the president for all three of those suicide bombing attacks and who had the blood of all 327 casualties on his trembling hands - they think he was a **** God, and they name airports after him.
Curious, perhaps?
Hypocritical, perhaps?
Discuss.
maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 10:11 am » wrote: ↑ Three years ago:
Kabul: One suicide bomber
13 American dead, 100 (est) Afghanis dead
Folks here claim it was the most embarrassing moment in American history. Joe Biden is a horrible president for letting it happen.
Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we?
April 1983. Beirut, Lebanon
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right into the courtyard of the US Embassy on the corniche in West Beirut, drives right up under the building's porte-cochère, and detonates. 63 dead: 32 Lebanese, 17 Americans, 14 visitors and passers-by.
Oddly enough, even though the previous Naval Attache, a Marine Colonel, had strongly recommended cement security barriers in front of the embassy, none had been installed.
Same City. Five months and two days later
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up the front stairs of the US Marine barracks at the Beirut International Airport, drives right into the front lobby, and detonates. 241 Dead Marines.
Oddly enough, even after a suicide bomber had used the exact same weapon in the exact same manner in the same city against the only OTHER US target in that city, cement security barriers had still not been installed.
Same City. 362 days later.
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up into the courtyard of the brand new US Embassy in a posh neighborhood of East Beirut. drives right up next to the building and detonates. 23 dead. 2 US servicemen, 21 Lebanese. Both the US Ambassador to Lebanon and the British Ambassador to Lebanon were both injured in the blast.
Oddly enough, even after suicide bombers had used the exact same weapons in the exact same manner in the same city against TWO OTHER US targets in that city, cement security barriers had STILL not been installed at the new Embassy either.
Folks here don't even remember it, and they think that Ronald Reagan - who was the president for all three of those suicide bombing attacks and who had the blood of all 327 casualties on his trembling hands - they think he was a **** God, and they name airports after him.
Curious, perhaps?
Hypocritical, perhaps?
Discuss.
Did Reagan get unanimous reports from his top military advisers that he refused to follow the way Biden did?maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 10:11 am » wrote: ↑ Three years ago:
Kabul: One suicide bomber
13 American dead, 100 (est) Afghanis dead
Folks here claim it was the most embarrassing moment in American history. Joe Biden is a horrible president for letting it happen.
Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we?
April 1983. Beirut, Lebanon
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right into the courtyard of the US Embassy on the corniche in West Beirut, drives right up under the building's porte-cochère, and detonates. 63 dead: 32 Lebanese, 17 Americans, 14 visitors and passers-by.
Oddly enough, even though the previous Naval Attache, a Marine Colonel, had strongly recommended cement security barriers in front of the embassy, none had been installed.
Same City. Five months and two days later
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up the front stairs of the US Marine barracks at the Beirut International Airport, drives right into the front lobby, and detonates. 241 Dead Marines.
Oddly enough, even after a suicide bomber had used the exact same weapon in the exact same manner in the same city against the only OTHER US target in that city, cement security barriers had still not been installed.
Same City. 362 days later.
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up into the courtyard of the brand new US Embassy in a posh neighborhood of East Beirut. drives right up next to the building and detonates. 23 dead. 2 US servicemen, 21 Lebanese. Both the US Ambassador to Lebanon and the British Ambassador to Lebanon were both injured in the blast.
Oddly enough, even after suicide bombers had used the exact same weapons in the exact same manner in the same city against TWO OTHER US targets in that city, cement security barriers had STILL not been installed at the new Embassy either.
Folks here don't even remember it, and they think that Ronald Reagan - who was the president for all three of those suicide bombing attacks and who had the blood of all 327 casualties on his trembling hands - they think he was a **** God, and they name airports after him.
Curious, perhaps?
Hypocritical, perhaps?
Discuss.
Let’s look at today:maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 10:11 am » wrote: ↑ Three years ago:
Kabul: One suicide bomber
13 American dead, 100 (est) Afghanis dead
Folks here claim it was the most embarrassing moment in American history. Joe Biden is a horrible president for letting it happen.
Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we?
April 1983. Beirut, Lebanon
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right into the courtyard of the US Embassy on the corniche in West Beirut, drives right up under the building's porte-cochère, and detonates. 63 dead: 32 Lebanese, 17 Americans, 14 visitors and passers-by.
Oddly enough, even though the previous Naval Attache, a Marine Colonel, had strongly recommended cement security barriers in front of the embassy, none had been installed.
Same City. Five months and two days later
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up the front stairs of the US Marine barracks at the Beirut International Airport, drives right into the front lobby, and detonates. 241 Dead Marines.
Oddly enough, even after a suicide bomber had used the exact same weapon in the exact same manner in the same city against the only OTHER US target in that city, cement security barriers had still not been installed.
Same City. 362 days later.
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up into the courtyard of the brand new US Embassy in a posh neighborhood of East Beirut. drives right up next to the building and detonates. 23 dead. 2 US servicemen, 21 Lebanese. Both the US Ambassador to Lebanon and the British Ambassador to Lebanon were both injured in the blast.
Oddly enough, even after suicide bombers had used the exact same weapons in the exact same manner in the same city against TWO OTHER US targets in that city, cement security barriers had STILL not been installed at the new Embassy either.
Folks here don't even remember it, and they think that Ronald Reagan - who was the president for all three of those suicide bombing attacks and who had the blood of all 327 casualties on his trembling hands - they think he was a **** God, and they name airports after him.
Curious, perhaps?
Hypocritical, perhaps?
Discuss.
Zeets2 » 26 Aug 2024, 10:50 am » wrote: ↑ Did Reagan get unanimous reports from his top military advisers that he refused to follow the way Biden did?
Or is this just another of your own feeble attempt to create the impression that other presidents took the same kind of ill-advised steps and ignored their military advisors DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE WEREN'T AT WAR WITH LEBANON AS WE WERE IN AFGHANISTAN?
maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 11:19 am » wrote: ↑ They didn't take any steps. That's the point. The entire Reagan administration was asleep at the switch. I know for a fact that the Ambassador, Bill Dillon, was urged to put up barriers. He did not. Then in the aftermath of the embassy bombing, the Pentagon did not bother to protect their marines in the barracks even after they had clear proof that arab extremists IN BEIRUT had successfully used a truck laden with explosives to blow up a US target in the same city. And then... when Team Reagan moved into a brand new embassy IN THE SAME CITY, they STILL didn't bother to put up cement barriers and let it happen yet again.
And I take issue with your casual use of the word "unanimous". Prove it or find another, more accurate word.
When were we at war with Lebanon like we were with Afghanistan? Were we at war with Egypt when terrorists attacked our Cairo embassy? Or with Tanzania, Kenya, Libya, or Iran when THOSE US embassies were attacked by terrorists?maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 11:19 am » wrote: ↑ They didn't take any steps. That's the point. The entire Reagan administration was asleep at the switch. I know for a fact that the Ambassador, Bill Dillon, was urged to put up barriers. He did not. Then in the aftermath of the embassy bombing, the Pentagon did not bother to protect their marines in the barracks even after they had clear proof that arab extremists IN BEIRUT had successfully used a truck laden with explosives to blow up a US target in the same city. And then... when Team Reagan moved into a brand new embassy IN THE SAME CITY, they STILL didn't bother to put up cement barriers and let it happen yet again.
And I take issue with your casual use of the word "unanimous". Prove it or find another, more accurate word.
Zeets2 » 26 Aug 2024, 11:46 am » wrote: ↑ When were we at war with Lebanon like we were with Afghanistan? Were we at war with Egypt when terrorists attacked our Cairo embassy? Or with Tanzania, Kenya, Libya, or Iran when THOSE US embassies were attacked by terrorists?
Is it your idea that any terrorist attack in the region since Reagan was president was the equivalent to Biden ignoring his top advisors that resulted in the murder of our Marines? Why can't you show any evidence that Reagan or any subsequent president refused to follow his military advisors as Biden did?
I'll tell you why, and it's because it's your sole, burning desire to compare apples to wrenches in such feeble attempts to smear any president who had soldiers die under his auspices, just in the hopes it will convince anyone that Biden was not the singular cause of his stupid decision to ignore their advice that directly led to the murder of those 13 Americans, who you're SO happy to have let him sacrifice!
And why don't YOU find A SINGLE MILITARY ADVISOR WHO AGREED WITH BIDEN'S WITHDRAWAL TIMING, since you're so convinced it wasn't unanimous?
Just a few weeks ago Biden said no one died under his watch...maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 10:11 am » wrote: ↑ Three years ago:
Kabul: One suicide bomber
13 American dead, 100 (est) Afghanis dead
Folks here claim it was the most embarrassing moment in American history. Joe Biden is a horrible president for letting it happen.
Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we?
April 1983. Beirut, Lebanon
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right into the courtyard of the US Embassy on the corniche in West Beirut, drives right up under the building's porte-cochère, and detonates. 63 dead: 32 Lebanese, 17 Americans, 14 visitors and passers-by.
Oddly enough, even though the previous Naval Attache, a Marine Colonel, had strongly recommended cement security barriers in front of the embassy, none had been installed.
Same City. Five months and two days later
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up the front stairs of the US Marine barracks at the Beirut International Airport, drives right into the front lobby, and detonates. 241 Dead Marines.
Oddly enough, even after a suicide bomber had used the exact same weapon in the exact same manner in the same city against the only OTHER US target in that city, cement security barriers had still not been installed.
Same City. 362 days later.
One suicide bomber in an explosives-laden truck drives right up into the courtyard of the brand new US Embassy in a posh neighborhood of East Beirut. drives right up next to the building and detonates. 23 dead. 2 US servicemen, 21 Lebanese. Both the US Ambassador to Lebanon and the British Ambassador to Lebanon were both injured in the blast.
Oddly enough, even after suicide bombers had used the exact same weapons in the exact same manner in the same city against TWO OTHER US targets in that city, cement security barriers had STILL not been installed at the new Embassy either.
Folks here don't even remember it, and they think that Ronald Reagan - who was the president for all three of those suicide bombing attacks and who had the blood of all 327 casualties on his trembling hands - they think he was a **** God, and they name airports after him.
Curious, perhaps?
Hypocritical, perhaps?
Discuss.
You were part of that incompetence, weren't you?maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 12:26 pm » wrote: ↑
Remember: If you are ever feeling really worthless and down in the dumps, just remember that it took the United States 20 years, trillions of dollars, and four presidents to figure out how to replace the Taliban with the Taliban.
So I accept your concession that there was ZERO to compare between watching Biden ignore his advisors and the fact that terrorists attacked US embassies in the past, and NOBODY refused the unanimous advice of military experts the way Biden purposely did!maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 12:26 pm » wrote: ↑ My thought is that the first truck bomb in Beirut was knowingly but willfully not prevented, and the second was worse, and the third was criminal negligence on the part of the Reagan administration. The US Marines were there as part of a multinational peacekeeping force. We failed to protect them from an enemy we knew was in the immediate vicinity using a weapon that they had successfully used against us just five months before the barracks attack... and then... WE STILL did nothing to protect our NEW embassy from that familiar threat.
AND NOBODY GAVE A ****. NOBODY WAS SCREAMING AT THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION FOR REPEATEDLY DROPPING THE BALL AND COSTING WAY MORE AMERICAN LIVES THAN WE LOST IN KABUL. I lost a lot of good friends in the first embassy bombing. **** Reagan and **** his party.
And Operation Enduring Freedom... the name for the war in Afghanistan, was declared over in 2014. We were in Afghanistan as trainers and advisors but the Afghan people didn't want to have their own democracy badly enough to be willing to fight for it. **** 'em.
Remember: If you are ever feeling really worthless and down in the dumps, just remember that it took the United States 20 years, trillions of dollars, and four presidents to figure out how to replace the Taliban with the Taliban.
The Reagan administration KNEW that senior Marines on the ground in Beirut wanted concrete barriers, especially AFTER the embassy was attacked.Zeets2 » 26 Aug 2024, 12:50 pm » wrote: ↑ So I accept your concession that there was ZERO to compare between watching Biden ignore his advisors and the fact that terrorists attacked US embassies in the past, and NOBODY refused the unanimous advice of military experts the way Biden purposely did!
Gotcha.
The fact is that NOBODY BLAMED ANYONE BUT THE TERRORISTS for any attack on US soldiers and that Reagan DID NOT make any decision that was in direct conflict with his military advisors in the same manner that Biden ignored and overruled HIS military experts! We DID NOT have a FULLY EQUIPPED AIR FORCE BASE where our soldiers stood guard in Beirut, as we were working under the control of UN PEACEKEEPING FORCES. That IS NOT the equivalent of having FULL US CONTROL AND AUTHORITY OVER OUR OWN FULLY STAFFED AIR BASE IN BAGRAM!
How many ways do you need those facts shoved up your dumb *** before you give up with your weak attempts to exonerate Biden for such a massive failure?
But you can have no problem casting full blame on Reagan and the entire Republican party 40 YEARS LATER despite the completely different circumstances you're trying SO hard to equate!!!
Give it up, loser!!!
Hey dickhead!maineman » 26 Aug 2024, 1:18 pm » wrote: ↑ The Reagan administration KNEW that senior Marines on the ground in Beirut wanted concrete barriers, especially AFTER the embassy was attacked.
And what do you call the suicide bomber at the Kabul airport? Was he NOT somehow a terrorist?
And you can repeat the "unanimous" lie all you want... it still won't make you something other than a cowardly liar
And, we were NOT in any way under anyone's control... certainly not the UN for chrissakes! It was a US brokered cease fire and a US negotiated four nation peacekeeping operation. We were there and our Marine Colonel was in overall command of forces from America, Britain, France and Italy. NOBODY wore blue berets. You just flat make **** up, don't you?
I am not trying to exonerate Biden for anything. I merely point out the utter hypocrisy of believing that 13 dead in Kabul is SUCH a terrible failure of leadership while giving Reagan a total free pass on not upgrading the defenses of not one not two but THREE different US facilities in the same city within months of each other that resulted in SIGNIFICANTLY more American casualties .