Liberal Forum

There is always arguing going on between the two most common economic systems: Capitalism and Socialism. The right wing celebrate capitalism and the left wing celebrate socialism etc...The usual rhetoric on both sides. Nothing ever new comes out of the discussions. 

However, don't both sides practice exploitation equally? They just do it in a different context. 

Capitalism cannot survive unless they exploit their workers. It is an inherent property. No employee will ever be paid what they are worth. That is impossible. Capitalism is driven for profit. If an employee is worth $20 an hour, then in order for a company to drive themselves to profit, they have to pay the worker less than $20.00. It's no different than trying to profit off of a product. If a product cost a company $20, then why would they sell it for $20?  They would need to sell it for more, then keep the difference as their profit. Employees are considered expenses, just like the product. In order to make money off them, they cannot pay an employee what they are worth. 

Socialism cannot survive unless personal incentives are stripped away. It promotes the needs of the whole. This suffocates personal motivation. Employees have no incentive to work harder since their basic needs are taken care of. It slows progress and innovation. The fruits of their labor are not being rewarded. An employee can be demanded to work and work and work, but they will never see their sweat being adequately compensated. 

So is there even such a thing as an economic system that doesn't depend on exploitation?
 

I know the OP is too long for BV to read, but what about the rest of you? 

Vegas » 37 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

37 minutes ago

I know the OP is too long for BV to read, but what about the rest of you?

I've been an employer most of my life and can tell you if an employee made me money, what I paid him wasn't important. It's been my experience though, most of them are not worth what I was paying them.

 

RebelGator » 11 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

11 minutes ago

I've been an employer most of my life and can tell you if an employee made me money, what I paid him wasn't important. It's been my experience though, most of them are not worth what I was paying them.

I'll give you an example, I ran 4 framing crews of 4 men ........it took 140 hours to frame, roof, side, and dry in a particular model house. I went on vacation and left one crew to frame the same house that had to be done. When I got back from vacation my secretary told me the house was done, but 300 hours were turned in on it.

An employee is only as good as his supervision.

RebelGator » 27 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

27 minutes ago

I'll give you an example, I ran 4 framing crews of 4 men ........it took 140 hours to frame, roof, side, and dry in a particular model house. I went on vacation and left one crew to frame the same house that had to be done. When I got back from vacation my secretary told me the house was done, but 300 hours were turned in on it.

An employee is only as good as his supervision.

not true. each worker is different. each employer is different. each boss is different. each person going into business is different. all people are different. i have been called upon advising people who were going into business. WOW!!!! +/- 80% would not listen. +/- 10% did good. +/- 10 % did great, and kept asking my advise on expansions. i had spent a few years in sales at a huge company. saw those who went broke, saw those who struggled. no brainier to see why. experiences during life can be more important than books alone.

walkingstick » 19 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

19 minutes ago

not true. each worker is different. each employer is different. each boss is different. each person going into business is different. all people are different. i have been called upon advising people who were going into business. WOW!!!! +/- 80% would not listen. +/- 10% did good. +/- 10 % did great, and kept asking my advise on expansions. i had spent a few years in sales at a huge company. saw those who went broke, saw those who struggled. no brainier to see why. experiences during life can be more important than books alone.

I gave you real world experience,  how much truer can it get?

RebelGator » 51 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

51 minutes ago

I've been an employer most of my life and can tell you if an employee made me money, what I paid him wasn't important. It's been my experience though, most of them are not worth what I was paying them.

The fact that you made money from their labor proves that they were worth it. Otherwise, how dis you profit? Did you do it all yourself or something? 

Vegas » 4 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

4 minutes ago

The fact that you made money from their labor proves that they were worth it. Otherwise, how dis you profit? Did you do it all yourself or something?

I gave you an example.

RebelGator » 42 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

42 minutes ago

I'll give you an example, I ran 4 framing crews of 4 men ........it took 140 hours to frame, roof, side, and dry in a particular model house. I went on vacation and left one crew to frame the same house that had to be done. When I got back from vacation my secretary told me the house was done, but 300 hours were turned in on it.

An employee is only as good as his supervision.

Were you paying them decently? I mean back in the old days when I was doing **** jobs like your employees did, I didn't give a **** either. Not because I wasn't good, but because I got paid ****. It wasn't worth it. 

Vegas » 12 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

12 minutes ago

Were you paying them decently? I mean back in the old days when I was doing **** jobs like your employees did, I didn't give a **** either. Not because I wasn't good, but because I got paid ****. It wasn't worth it.

Is someone going to measure and cut lumber differently if he makes more or less money......you're working 8 hours a day and if you stay busy,  the time passes faster.

To find a decent worker today, hire a Mexican....they work harder than white people and apreciate it more.

 

RebelGator » 1 minute ago » wrote: ↑

1 minute ago

To find a decent worker today, hire a Mexican....they work harder than white people and apreciate it more.

This I agree with ^^^

That must really **** with some people's minds, younger generations have nothing to look forward to other than being exploited for the next 50 years.

Get a grip, life isn't fair and it never will be!

RebelGator » 37 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

37 minutes ago

Is someone going to measure and cut lumber differently if he makes more or less money......you're working 8 hours a day and if you stay busy,  the time passes faster.

To find a decent worker today, hire a Mexican....they work harder than white people and apreciate it more.

That is generally true!