Liberal Forum

Mrkelly » 06 Dec 2024, 6:27 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 6:27 pm

a good friend at work was from Kenya 

even they have it

We spent trillions enshrining such a right in the Iraqnamese constitution. 


No, really!


I'm not kidding...

Blackvegetable » 06 Dec 2024, 8:27 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 8:27 pm

We spent trillions enshrining such a right in the Iraqnamese constitution. 

No, really!

I'm not kidding...

Tell us more.....vent
 

ConsRule » 06 Dec 2024, 4:48 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 4:48 pm

Well, people can simply decide not to have insurance.  They might have to sit in an ER waiting room for 8-10 hours before being seen and treated at someone else's expense...but they have options.

Gosh, I guess we are out of options then. 

Oh, wait. That was his FINAL linkedIn post. I guess there IS a third option, there, Sparky.
 

ConsRule » 06 Dec 2024, 6:32 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 6:32 pm

I have repeatedly searched at times over the years when this debate comes up.  I have never found any data on how many people with health insurance file bankruptcy. 

Also, even the authors of one of the most often cited studies on the topic admit using their data to make conclusions on specific reason is flawed.  Since there is no way to know, other than having medical debt as the ONLY debt in a filing, what caused the person to file bankruptcy.  Even though listed debt is in descending order of total, it is erroneous to assume any one debt is the reason for the filing.  The may have encountered significant medical debt AFTER spending a lifetime accumulating debt in many other forms.  However, if medical debt is one of the top listed items it is included in a total of bankruptcies "due to medical debt."

Profit is not evil.  Companies need profit to survive. 

Systematically violating contracts is evil. A government letting that happen to its people is evil. Try to think. John Galt is not watching. Jesus is.

ConsRule » 06 Dec 2024, 6:32 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 6:32 pm

Anyone can point to a few anecdotal examples and cry "See...I told you."  In my life, I have had three stays in the hospital lasting more than a week.  Two directly related to my heart issues and one after a near fatal car accident.  All three resulted in a total bill in excess of $400,000.  I have never had care denied by an insurance company.  Besides, even when someone files bankruptcy, the debts don't magically disappear.  They are paid by others in the form of higher premiums, higher cost and higher interest rates.

Some people simple never come to understand the truth behind TANSTAAFL!

That's what Brian Thompson just found out, Captain Obvious.

Government WILL get it's 2 pounds of flesh!

Bankruptcy can discharge some debts, but not Medicare bills
Chapter 7 bankruptcy can discharge many unsecured debts, including credit cards and personal loans, but not medical bills owed to the government, like Medicare.

Mrkelly » 06 Dec 2024, 6:27 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 6:27 pm

a good friend at work was from Kenya 

even they have it

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metr ... expectancy      
 

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... omparison/

I think we have better infant mortality rates at USA zoos.     
 

RebelGator » 06 Dec 2024, 6:42 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 6:42 pm

I wonder how many of you clowns would celebrate a parent shooting his child's teacher because they didn't pass him/her to the next grade.

Are you really equating the two? 

Seriously, man.

*GHETTOBLASTER » 07 Dec 2024, 10:35 am » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 10:35 am

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metr ... expectancy      

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/ ... omparison/The Final LinkedIn Post From Brian Thompson Received Some Backlash From Insurance Policy Holders

I think we have better infant mortality rates at USA zoos.   

You don't want to start a conversation about american medical outcomes. 

It won't go well when you compare us to nations whose capitol buildings are accessed by paved roads. 
 

Cannonpointer » 07 Dec 2024, 4:07 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 4:07 pm

You don't want to start a conversation about american medical outcomes. 

It won't go well when you compare us to nations who capitol buildings are accessed by paved roads.

How is our world's leading obesity rate the fault of our medical system...?

Or are you saying that we have more botched surgeries and inferior disease treatment protocols...?

*GHETTOBLASTER » 07 Dec 2024, 5:03 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 5:03 pm

How is our world's leading obesity rate the fault of our medical system...?

Or are you saying that we have more botched surgeries and inferior disease treatment protocols...?

You are asking more than two questions right here - or shall I say, acting on more than two buried (and incorrect) premises.

Let's start with obesity. Obesity is not from over eating. It's from overeating the wrong foods - processed **** that is literally designed to cause obesity. Now, is the medical system implicated in this? You bet. Has it occurred to you to ask what system SHOULD be responsible for Americans' nutrition, if NOT our medical system? Should it be the Department of Transportation? Housing and Urban Development? The Treasury? I don't think so. I think our medical system is failing us. It's not failing share holders. Just the American people. 

I do not believe it is a big ask to expect a doctor to know a thing or two about nutrition. Let me ask you this: Do you think doctors have a duty to know what things are poison, and to warn their patients against those things? Because if doctors DO have such a duty, ours are failing, and obesity is only one of a great many social maladies and traumas resulting. We live in a toxic food paradigm, and if that is not the MEDICAL system's job to correct, whose job is it?

As to "botched surgeries," here you make the common mistake that many Americans do. There are so many questions to unpack, and I'm not going to get too deep into it, but I will just say a few things:
1. Any unnecessary surgery is a botched surgery, whatever the outcome;
2. Surgery is extremely invasive, and is a last resort AFTER the medical system has already failed the patient;
3. Being good at surgery - and we are - is, like most other things, a function of practice. If we did a better job with health, we'd have less practice. So bragging that your system is good at surgery is sort of like bragging that you clot well when you cut yourself. 

A medical system that is outside the financial reach of 90% of Americans (including the insured), that treats emergencies well but non-emergencies not at all unless you are quite wealthy, and that fails in its duties to warn its patients against clear and present dangers to their health, is not worth defending. Countries with witch doctors are just as respectable and civilized. 

Cannonpointer » 07 Dec 2024, 6:16 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 6:16 pm

You are asking more than two questions right here - or shall I say, acting on more than two buried (and incorrect) premises.

Let's start with obesity. Obesity is not from over eating. It's from overeating the wrong foods - processed **** that is literally designed to cause obesity. Now, is the medical system implicated in this? You bet. Has it occurred to you to ask what system SHOULD be responsible for Americans' nutrition, if NOT our medical system? Should it be the Department of Transportation? Housing and Urban Development? The Treasury? I don't think so. I think our medical system is failing us. It's not failing share holders. Just the American people. 

I do not believe it is a big ask to expect a doctor to know a thing or two about nutrition. Let me ask you this: Do you think doctors have a duty to know what things are poison, and to warn their patients against those things? Because if doctors DO have such a duty, ours are failing, and obesity is only one of a great many social maladies and traumas resulting. We live in a toxic food paradigm, and if that is not the MEDICAL system's job to correct, whose job is it?

As to "botched surgeries," here you make the common mistake that many Americans do. There are so many questions to unpack, and I'm not going to get too deep into it, but I will just say a few things:
1. Any unnecessary surgery is a botched surgery, whatever the outcome;
2. Surgery is extremely invasive, and is a last resort AFTER the medical system has already failed the patient;
3. Being good at surgery - and we are - is, like most other things, a function of practice. If we did a better job with health, we'd have less practice. So bragging that your system is good at surgery is sort of like bragging that you clot well when you cut yourself. 

A medical system that is outside the financial reach of 90% of Americans (including the insured), that treats emergencies well but non-emergencies not at all unless you are quite wealthy, and that fails in its duties to warn its patients against clear and present dangers to their health, is not worth defending. Countries with witch doctors are just as respectable and civilized.

Obesity among Baby Boomer kids was pretty rare.,,and almost nonexistent when our parents were young.
Our childhood obesity rate increased once video games came out in 1980.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the national JFK Physical Fitness testing in public schools was scrapped shortly after.
By now most of the streets and playgrounds that my generation played at after school and on the weekends were empty.
This is the root cause,,not because our Doctors have failed to tell us that watching our weight  and getting 30 minutes of vigorous exercise daily  will help "keep the doctor away".

 
 

*GHETTOBLASTER » 07 Dec 2024, 6:36 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 6:36 pm

Obesity among Baby Boomer kids was pretty rare.,,and almost nonexistent when our parents were young.
Our childhood obesity rate increased once video games came out in 1980.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the national JFK Physical Fitness testing in public schools was scrapped shortly after.
By now most of the streets and playgrounds that my generation played at after school and on the weekends were empty.
This is the root cause,,not because our Doctors have failed to tell us that watching our weight  and getting 30 minutes of vigorous exercise daily  will help "keep the doctor away".

I get the feeling you never downloaded the Yuka app.

Pre 1980 children were fed food - not science experiments laced with profatamine. 
 

Cannonpointer » 07 Dec 2024, 7:52 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 7:52 pm

I get the feeling you never downloaded the Yuka app.

Pre 1980 children were fed food - not science experiments laced with profatamine.

Boomers  ate our share of junk food  but we burned it off. Being confined to   indoors was considered punishment or because we were behind in school work, or we were too sick to play outside..being sedentary was not part of our normal routine.
Look at the candy, cookie and potato chip aisles at your local  grocery store and 90% of what you see today are the same things we ate that date back to way before the Millennials were ever conceived.
We aren't being "outlived" by very much statistically speaking.
The recent covid death claims have made our average life expectancy to take a dive on the chart I just looked at.
We also  have a 13% Negro population and a 20% Brown population that most likely drag our Average .Life .Expectancy. down a wee bit more [than let's say Japan and Switzerland ]   thanks to their high murder rates  and  drug use.
 

*GHETTOBLASTER » 07 Dec 2024, 8:48 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 8:48 pm

Boomers  ate our share of junk food  but we burned it off. Being confined to   indoors was considered punishment or because we were behind in school work, or we were too sick to play outside..being sedentary was not part of our normal routine.
Look at the candy, cookie and potato chip aisles at your local  grocery store and 90% of what you see today are the same things we ate that date back to way before the Millennials were ever conceived.

No.

Like I said, it's clear to me you never downloaded the Yuka app.

It's the same brand names. It's not the same thing in the bags.

You are taking one aspect - a decrease in childhood activity, which I grant plays a role, - and you are pretending it is the only aspect of this issue. Obesity is not the only area wherein America's medical system is failing its citizens (I would remind you of their recent attempt to bully us into being lab rats), and lack of exercise is not the only aspect of the obesity epidemic.

Cannonpointer » 07 Dec 2024, 9:13 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 9:13 pm

No.

Like I said, it's clear to me you never downloaded the Yuka app.

It's the same brand names. It's not the same thing in the bags.

You are taking one aspect - a decrease in childhood activity, which I grant plays a role, - and you are pretending it is the only aspect of this issue. Obesity is not the only area wherein America's medical system is failing its citizens (I would remind you of their recent attempt to bully us into being lab rats), and lack of exercise is not the only aspect of the obesity epidemic.

An active teen VS a couch potato would conservatively burn 500 more calories every day.
That's HUGE.
The bonus happens   when the physically active teen tends to be much less likely to indulge in  self destructive vices.

*GHETTOBLASTER » 07 Dec 2024, 10:00 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 10:00 pm

An active teen VS a couch potato would conservatively burn 500 more calories every day.
That's HUGE.
The bonus happens   when the physically active teen tends to be much less likely to indulge in  self destructive vices.

Again, you are telling me that rocks are hard and water is wet. 

And again, I am telling you that TODAY'S processed foods are chemically designed to be addictive and to cause obesity. 

I am also telling you again that it is obvious to me you never downloaded the YUKA app, and you are unaware of the insidious "food" war against us. I strongly suspect that you are not even aware of the dirty dozen and the clean 15 - which means that you are about 50 times more likely to develop dementia than I am. 
 

Cannonpointer » 07 Dec 2024, 10:53 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 10:53 pm

Again, you are telling me that rocks are hard and water is wet. 

And again, I am telling you that TODAY'S processed foods are chemically designed to be addictive and to cause obesity. 

I am also telling you again that it is obvious to me you never downloaded the YUKA app, and you are unaware of the insidious "food" war against us. I strongly suspect that you are not even aware of the dirty dozen and the clean 15 - which means that you are about 50 times more likely to develop dementia than I am.

I have always suspected McDonalds beef to have additives that made it addictive.
It doesn't taste the same as hamburger you buy at Safeway.
I don't know if your "app" mentions that or not...but that would be pretty cool to find out if my gut instincts are right about that.
I don't have a smart phone..so I don't have any "apps".
My exposures to toxic chemicals and lead are what I'll blame for dementia first.
I'm pretty satisfied with my "age to  physical capability ratio" and I do not envy very many folks who are much older than I am.
It would drive me nuts to be incapable of tending to my chores, hobbies and pass times.
 

*GHETTOBLASTER » 07 Dec 2024, 11:23 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2024, 11:23 pm

I have always suspected McDonalds beef to have additives that made it addictive.
It doesn't taste the same as hamburger you buy at Safeway.
I don't know if your "app" mentions that or not...but that would be pretty cool to find out if my gut instincts are right about that.
I don't have a smart phone..so I don't have any "apps".
My exposures to toxic chemicals and lead are what I'll blame for dementia first.
I'm pretty satisfied with my "age to  physical capability ratio" and I do not envy very many folks who are much older than I am.
It would drive me nuts to be incapable of tending to my chores, hobbies and pass times.

Yes, toxins are what cause dementia - not age. The reason that age is positively correlated with dementia is that toxins build up. When toxins cause dementia in younger people, we call that "early onset" dementia - to further the lie that dementia is related to age and not to toxins.

And the medical system in which this crime against your humanity and mine occurs is the one you feel compelled to defend. 

By the way, avoiding dementia is pretty **** easy and pretty **** cheap. 

https://shop.stephencabral.com/free-hai ... source=vpm

The dirty dozen are items of produce that contain the most insecticides and should never be purchased in a conventional form - only organic. 
The clean 15 are produce items that are perfectly safe to purchase conventional. 

Among the dirty dozen are apples, peaches and pears, ANY berries but especially strawberries, tomatoes, spinach and kale, nectarines, and sweet bell peppers. Potatoes are another filthy food. 

Among the clean 15 are cabbages, bananas, avocados, onions, I believe garlic, and asparagus. It has no pesticides because bugs do not go after it. I love the stuff, but it makes my swimming pool smell funny. 
 
 

ConsRule » 06 Dec 2024, 6:32 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 6:32 pm

I have repeatedly searched at times over the years when this debate comes up.  I have never found any data on how many people with health insurance file bankruptcy. 

Also, even the authors of one of the most often cited studies on the topic admit using their data to make conclusions on specific reason is flawed.  Since there is no way to know, other than having medical debt as the ONLY debt in a filing, what caused the person to file bankruptcy.  Even though listed debt is in descending order of total, it is erroneous to assume any one debt is the reason for the filing.  The may have encountered significant medical debt AFTER spending a lifetime accumulating debt in many other forms.  However, if medical debt is one of the top listed items it is included in a total of bankruptcies "due to medical debt."

Profit is not evil.  Companies need profit to survive.  Anyone can point to a few anecdotal examples and cry "See...I told you."  In my life, I have had three stays in the hospital lasting more than a week.  Two directly related to my heart issues and one after a near fatal car accident.  All three resulted in a total bill in excess of $400,000.  I have never had care denied by an insurance company.  Besides, even when someone files bankruptcy, the debts don't magically disappear.  They are paid by others in the form of higher premiums, higher cost and higher interest rates.

Some people simple never come to understand the truth behind TANSTAAFL!

No one who complains about America's low ranking, low performing, high cost health care system is calling profit evil.

Profit is not good. Profit is not evil. That kind of magical thinking is for midwits. The issue with America's health care system is that the incentives run toward keeping people sick. The sicker we are, the more big pharma makes. The end result looks like this:

Carcinogenic or Banned Elsewhere – U.S.-Approved Additives (Names Only)
Potassium bromate
Brominated vegetable oil (BVO)
Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA)
Butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT)
Titanium dioxide
Azodicarbonamide
Ractopamine
Mineral oil hydrocarbons (MOAH/MOSH)
Erythrosine (Red Dye No. 3)
Propylparaben
Nitrates (e.g., sodium nitrate)
Nitrites (e.g., sodium nitrite)
Artificial food dyes (general class, especially Red 40, Yellow 5, Yellow 6)
Olestra
Propyl gallate
Acrylamide (formed in processed foods like fries, chips)
Sodium benzoate (when combined with ascorbic acid)
Formaldehyde (trace use in food packaging and processing)
PFAS (used in grease-proof food packaging; now under scrutiny)
Polyethylene glycol (in some processed foods and medications)
Calcium propionate
Blue 1 and Blue 2
Yellow 5 (Tartrazine)
Yellow 6 (Sunset Yellow)
Red 40 (Allura Red)
Sodium aluminum phosphate
Sodium aluminum sulfate
MSG (monosodium glutamate) — banned or restricted in some countries
Carrageenan — banned in infant formula in Europe, allowed in U.S.
TBHQ (tertiary butylhydroquinone)

Those European countries with free public health ban poisons. The US doesn't. So that is ONE issue with our health care system. And before you insist our health care system is not to blame for poisons being allowed in our foods, you must first tell us who IS to blame. No ****. No pretending that anyone who objects to a system that MANIFESTLY does not serve the interests of Americans is "calling profit evil." Tell us whose job it is to advise the congress to ban these items, if NOT the medical industry's.

There are a great many other things than the above list that are **** up about our health care system. But let's start with that and see where we go from there. 
 
 

Vegas » 06 Dec 2024, 3:44 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2024, 3:44 pm

It really is difficult to feel sorry for this guy or any Health insurance CEO. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for the insurance industry. The shooting is one thing, but to see how the customers are so pissed off at this guy and the company should really raise eyebrows.

United Health Care is Obama Care for White Conservative Chrisitians.  I know of two Trump supporters that love they pay for everything.

The prescribed two giant bottles of Oxycodone with enough fire power to take out the neighborhood.  The next move was to "auto correct"  Tounge to Lung on a scan report after informing if it has spread from the tongue anywhere else then treatment would not be advised and covered.  Has it been me and I was alone I probably would have done the Marilyn Monroe...

United  is getting stuck with a $70K One way helicopter ride from Easton to Baltimore.  He was still on Iowa insurance at the time so I hope those phookers get stuck with it.  I am not sure where United gets their money from, but Bro is blowing thorugh it like he's a millionaire.   The sad part is he is losing the fight after everything we have been through.  The thing grew back with a vengeance after 3 treatments.  We had to call an ambulance early yesterday morning. His fever was spiked..  Pnuemonia is setting in.  If we had IV anitbiotics here we could probably make it through. He is improving, but it really feels like his best outcome at this point is to go to hospice.  We will fight with him as long as he wants to.


We really do need to pay attention to healthcare.   I am not a fan of the  "Let Them Eat Dirt" approach of MAGA politicians.