Liberal Forum

I enjoy reading American history. usually most of my peaked interests encompass the civil war era. However, the era of the founding years is just as captivating. In particular, I read about how the founders settled the flagrant contradiction between a free nation while holding onto slavery. Most of the founders owned slaves. They knew their hypocrisy. They just never had an answer for it. If they abolished slavery in the beginning, then the newfound country would be economically devastated. The country would collapse faster than it was founded. There is a very high probability that if they abolished slavery in the beginning, then America would never continue, let alone prosper. Jefferson hated the institution of slavery. However, he also knew that if he had freed his slaves, then he would go bankrupt. Slavery had not just needed to continue, at that time, but it needed to be the foundation of the country. 

The irony: In order for America to be a free nation, it had to be rooted in oppression. 

Vegas » 34 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

34 minutes ago

I enjoy reading American history. usually most of my peaked interests encompass the civil war era. However, the era of the founding years is just as captivating. In particular, I read about how the founders settled the flagrant contradiction between a free nation while holding onto slavery. Most of the founders owned slaves. They knew their hypocrisy. They just never had an answer for it. If they abolished slavery in the beginning, then the newfound country would be economically devastated. The country would collapse faster than it was founded. There is a very high probability that if they abolished slavery in the beginning, then America would never continue, let alone prosper. Jefferson hated the institution of slavery. However, he also knew that if he had freed his slaves, then he would go bankrupt. Slavery had not just needed to continue, at that time, but it needed to be the foundation of the country. 

The irony: In order for America to be a free nation, it had to be rooted in oppression.

Those "slaves" were not oppressed.  They lived much, much better on most plantations than they did in Africa. Slavery was necessary as a transition from jungle-life to life among civilized people. Unfortunately, the civilized people of that day didn't realize that it would be nearly impossible for Blacks to ever make that transition without the infusion of white DNA.

Also, Black slavery, as it was during America's founding would never have been a problem if the Southern States didn't engage in slavery on an industrial scale. They wanted to get rich on cotton exports, and did, leading to industrial-level slavery.  In just a handfull of decades, slaves would have been rendered useless due to mechanization anyway.
 
 

Skans » 8 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

8 minutes ago

Those "slaves" were not oppressed.  They lived much, much better on most plantations than they did in Africa. Slavery was necessary as a transition from jungle-life to life among civilized people. Unfortunately, the civilized people of that day didn't realize that it would be nearly impossible for Blacks to ever make that transition without the infusion of white DNA.

Also, Black slavery, as it was during America's founding would never have been a problem if the Southern States didn't engage in slavery on an industrial scale. They wanted to get rich on cotton exports, and did, leading to industrial-level slavery.  In just a handfull of decades, slaves would have been rendered useless due to mechanization anyway.

    Come on Skans. 

Vegas » 3 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

3 minutes ago

    Come on Skans.

Well, what part of what I said do you disagree with?
 

Vegas » 44 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

44 minutes ago

I enjoy reading American history. usually most of my peaked interests encompass the civil war era. However, the era of the founding years is just as captivating. In particular, I read about how the founders settled the flagrant contradiction between a free nation while holding onto slavery. Most of the founders owned slaves. They knew their hypocrisy. They just never had an answer for it. If they abolished slavery in the beginning, then the newfound country would be economically devastated. The country would collapse faster than it was founded. There is a very high probability that if they abolished slavery in the beginning, then America would never continue, let alone prosper. Jefferson hated the institution of slavery. However, he also knew that if he had freed his slaves, then he would go bankrupt. Slavery had not just needed to continue, at that time, but it needed to be the foundation of the country. 

The irony: In order for America to be a free nation, it had to be rooted in oppression.

10 years ago this was called Critical Race Theory...

Blackvegetable » 4 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

4 minutes ago

10 years ago this was called Critical Race Theory...

prove it asshole

Skans » 10 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

10 minutes ago

Well, what part of what I said do you disagree with?

The part that they weren't oppressed. Pretty much all of it. Let's take an extreme example for the sake of your argument. Let's say a slave was treated like royalty. They ate well. They drank good wine and got laid as much as they wanted. Their family was never separated. Moreover, they lived a long healthy life. Ok, great. One problem - they are still a slave. What does that mean? It means they are property, not humans. They can be killed or whipped for no reason at any time. Property is expendable. They don't have a right to pursue their own happiness. If they want to make money and own their own land or property, that is too bad. their lives have been coursed out already. 

Blackvegetable » 14 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

14 minutes ago

10 years ago this was called Critical Race Theory...

Yu dumb ****. Does it look like I was referring to 10 years ago or 250 yrs ago? You stupid POS. 

Vegas » 6 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

6 minutes ago

Yu dumb ****. Does it look like I was referring to 10 years ago or 250 yrs ago? You stupid POS.

https://youtu.be/JjFhnqo9nQI?si=rdew0lgjMZn7CoTI

Blackvegetable » 4 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

4 minutes ago

https://youtu.be/JjFhnqo9nQI?si=rdew0lgjMZn7CoTI

No thoughts, etc...copy/paste. 

Do you have any intelligent questions about the OP? I will teach you what defending an OP looks like. 

Vegas » 3 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

3 minutes ago

No thoughts, etc...copy/paste. 

Do you have any intelligent questions about the OP? I will teach you what defending an OP looks like.

I opened with it....naturally, you melted down into Stupid.

We aren't free. Just try to do something the law says you can't. Like take drugs for example. I don't take or sell drugs but I knew a lot of people who did. Fly a plane with no license. Sell real estate with no license.
 
 

Blackvegetable » 29 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

29 minutes ago

10 years ago this was called Critical Race Theory...

I bet this couldn’t be taught in a lot of school districts today 

Mrkelly » 3 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

3 minutes ago

I bet this couldn’t be taught in a lot of school districts today

The mind reels...

Vegas » 24 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

24 minutes ago

The part that they weren't oppressed. Pretty much all of it. Let's take an extreme example for the sake of your argument. Let's say a slave was treated like royalty. They ate well. They drank good wine and got laid as much as they wanted. Their family was never separated. Moreover, they lived a long healthy life. Ok, great. One problem - they are still a slave. What does that mean? It means they are property, not humans. They can be killed or whipped for no reason at any time. Property is expendable. They don't have a right to pursue their own happiness. If they want to make money and own their own land or property, that is too bad. their lives have been coursed out already.

 

• Could they make money or own their own land in Africa?  Remember who slaves are - men (and their families) who fought wars and lost.  What would these "slaves" be doing in Africa if they didn't come to America?
• How long would these Slaves survived in Africa, after losing to a more powerful tribe?
• How would these exported Slaves been treated if they remained in Africa, considering they couldn't even defend themselves or their families from becoming enslaved.
• There's oppression - the type you were describing, and then there's oppression - the type which starves and brutalizes an individual and his family; that's African oppression.

Look, I agree that the 13 colonies would never have formed a Union without acceptance of slavery.  The real question is was it reasonable for White Europeans to believe that Black Africans were simply incapable of living as free people?  I think so. When you compare the ability of an African from 1775 to a European White of the same time frame, the difference in raw intelligence and capabilities were at least tens-of-thousands of years apart. 
 

Vegas » Today, 9:52 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 9:52 am

I enjoy reading American history. usually most of my peaked interests encompass the civil war era. However, the era of the founding years is just as captivating. In particular, I read about how the founders settled the flagrant contradiction between a free nation while holding onto slavery. Most of the founders owned slaves. They knew their hypocrisy. They just never had an answer for it. If they abolished slavery in the beginning, then the newfound country would be economically devastated. The country would collapse faster than it was founded. There is a very high probability that if they abolished slavery in the beginning, then America would never continue, let alone prosper. Jefferson hated the institution of slavery. However, he also knew that if he had freed his slaves, then he would go bankrupt. Slavery had not just needed to continue, at that time, but it needed to be the foundation of the country. 

The irony: In order for America to be a free nation, it had to be rooted in oppression.

It's "piqued"....


Kill yourself. 

The world wants BV to kill himself

Blackvegetable » 4 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

4 minutes ago

It's "piqued"....

Kill yourself.

And there it is. No intelligent question. As always. Once again, he proves that he does not have the intellectual capacity for critical thought.

And have you figured out who I am referring to yet?     

Skans » 11 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

11 minutes ago

• Could they make money or own their own land in Africa?  Remember who slaves are - men (and their families) who fought wars and lost.  What would these "slaves" be doing in Africa if they didn't come to America?
• How long would these Slaves survived in Africa, after losing to a more powerful tribe?
• How would these exported Slaves been treated if they remained in Africa, considering they couldn't even defend themselves or their families from becoming enslaved.
• There's oppression - the type you were describing, and then there's oppression - the type which starves and brutalizes an individual and his family; that's African oppression.

Look, I agree that the 13 colonies would never have formed a Union without acceptance of slavery.  The real question is was it reasonable for White Europeans to believe that Black Africans were simply incapable of living as free people?  I think so. When you compare the ability of an African from 1775 to a European White of the same time frame, the difference in raw intelligence and capabilities were at least tens-of-thousands of years apart.

Ok...so they were enslaved in Africa also. That is irrelevant. You are basically just saying that if you are going to be oppressed, then it's better to be oppressed in America. But they are still oppressed. I am not sure where you are getting at. The point of the OP is that America would have never gotten off the ground if we didn't have a solid foundation of oppression in place. 

Vegas » 11 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

11 minutes ago

Ok...so they were enslaved in Africa also. That is irrelevant. You are basically just saying that if you are going to be oppressed, then it's better to be oppressed in America. But they are still oppressed. I am not sure where you are getting at. The point of the OP is that America would have never gotten off the ground if we didn't have a solid foundation of oppression in place.

At the time Africans were being brought to America as "slaves", they were thought of as merely farm animals. There was no oppression,  it was more like liberation from the life they had previously lived.