Liberal Forum

Back when the FBI and ATF burned down the Branch Davidian Church in 1994, I became interested in this.  One reason was because I just happened to be riding my motorcycle sometime in mid-April '94 through the town of Waco Texas. I stopped for gas and snacks in Waco and there were some locals talking among themselves about what was happening out "at the ranch" they called it. I just asked what was going on - they didn't really know, just said there's some kind of stand-off between the cops and folks on the ranch.

I didn't think much of it, hopped back on my bike and just rode on.  When I finally got home, all I saw on the news were reports about the Branch Davidians in Waco Tx. I got pretty interested in this event.  Many Conservatives made it sound like the FBI/ATF burned down a church with a bunch of children in it.  Well, the compound burned and kids were killed.  The FBI/ATF and those that supported these agencies, were saying that Koresh wired the compound with explosives, and when ATF rammed a vehicle into it, this set off the explosives.

Look, I think it was a pretty FUBAR operation by FBI/ATF - I'm not disputing this.  But, what I would like to know, some 31 years later, is whether anyone maintains that Vernon Howell, a/k/a David Koresh, was a good person.  There was testimony from former Davidian members that Koresh was regularly having sex with children as young as 12 years old.  That kind of stuff never sat well with me.  And, it still doesn't.

Thoughts???

Progressivism doesn't allow competition

it was a huge cult bent on destroying a small cult

Skans » 25 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

25 minutes ago

Back when the FBI and ATF burned down the Branch Davidian Church in 1994, I became interested in this.  One reason was because I just happened to be riding my motorcycle sometime in mid-April '94 through the town of Waco Texas. I stopped for gas and snacks in Waco and there were some locals talking among themselves about what was happening out "at the ranch" they called it. I just asked what was going on - they didn't really know, just said there's some kind of stand-off between the cops and folks on the ranch.

I didn't think much of it, hopped back on my bike and just rode on.  When I finally got home, all I saw on the news were reports about the Branch Davidians in Waco Tx. I got pretty interested in this event.  Many Conservatives made it sound like the FBI/ATF burned down a church with a bunch of children in it.  Well, the compound burned and kids were killed.  The FBI/ATF and those that supported these agencies, were saying that Koresh wired the compound with explosives, and when ATF rammed a vehicle into it, this set off the explosives.

Look, I think it was a pretty FUBAR operation by FBI/ATF - I'm not disputing this.  But, what I would like to know, some 31 years later, is whether anyone maintains that Vernon Howell, a/k/a David Koresh, was a good person.  There was testimony from former Davidian members that Koresh was regularly having sex with children as young as 12 years old.  That kind of stuff never sat well with me.  And, it still doesn't.

Thoughts???

That kind of stuff never sat well with me. And, it still doesn't.

am I tripping?

nefarious101 » Today, 8:16 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 8:16 am

Progressivism doesn't allow competition

it was a huge cult bent on destroying a small cult

This guy, Vernon Howell, never sat well with me.  Even the fact that he changed his name seemed a bit "fraudy".  Screwing little girls - that's Muslim, not Christian. I once read that the Branch Davidians were an offshoot of Seventh-Day Adventists. Adventists are pretty family-oriented conservatives - they don't go around F-ing children.

I think the guy was just a charismatic opportunist who loved to be worshiped. I'm not really sure why the FBI and ATF had to run a big operation against the compound.  Seems to me to be more of a state of Texas problem. Other than a few possible firearms violations, the concerning stuff going on at the ranch seemed to be more state issues.  Maybe Texas wasn't taking action?  I don't know.  Seems to me to still be a number of unanswered questions.


 

Skans » Today, 8:07 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 8:07 am

Back when the FBI and ATF burned down the Branch Davidian Church in 1994, I became interested in this.  One reason was because I just happened to be riding my motorcycle sometime in mid-April '94 through the town of Waco Texas. I stopped for gas and snacks in Waco and there were some locals talking among themselves about what was happening out "at the ranch" they called it. I just asked what was going on - they didn't really know, just said there's some kind of stand-off between the cops and folks on the ranch.

I didn't think much of it, hopped back on my bike and just rode on.  When I finally got home, all I saw on the news were reports about the Branch Davidians in Waco Tx. I got pretty interested in this event.  Many Conservatives made it sound like the FBI/ATF burned down a church with a bunch of children in it.  Well, the compound burned and kids were killed.  The FBI/ATF and those that supported these agencies, were saying that Koresh wired the compound with explosives, and when ATF rammed a vehicle into it, this set off the explosives.

Look, I think it was a pretty FUBAR operation by FBI/ATF - I'm not disputing this.  But, what I would like to know, some 31 years later, is whether anyone maintains that Vernon Howell, a/k/a David Koresh, was a good person.  There was testimony from former Davidian members that Koresh was regularly having sex with children as young as 12 years old.  That kind of stuff never sat well with me.  And, it still doesn't.

Thoughts???

Around that same time maybe afew year later I became "Infatuated" with the "Unabomber".

In my stupid mind I "Respected" him running off to Montana living in a shack and hunting growing his own food.

At that time in my life I was just getting "Divorced" my First Time and I wanted 2 Shoot Myself get it over with at that time.

Theordore Kaczynski saga gave me "Hope" that someday I could even "Escape" this Rat Race too
 

Skans » 34 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

34 minutes ago

This guy, Vernon Howell, never sat well with me.  Even the fact that he changed his name seemed a bit "fraudy".  Screwing little girls - that's Muslim, not Christian. I once read that the Branch Davidians were an offshoot of Seventh-Day Adventists. Adventists are pretty family-oriented conservatives - they don't go around F-ing children.

I think the guy was just a charismatic opportunist who loved to be worshiped. I'm not really sure why the FBI and ATF had to run a big operation against the compound.  Seems to me to be more of a state of Texas problem. Other than a few possible firearms violations, the concerning stuff going on at the ranch seemed to be more state issues.  Maybe Texas wasn't taking action?  I don't know.  Seems to me to still be a number of unanswered questions.

In a world where corporate media has proven itself to be a bastion of misinformation...anything you hear is a toss up as far as truth is concerned

Skans » Today, 8:07 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 8:07 am

Back when the FBI and ATF burned down the Branch Davidian Church in 1994, I became interested in this.  One reason was because I just happened to be riding my motorcycle sometime in mid-April '94 through the town of Waco Texas. I stopped for gas and snacks in Waco and there were some locals talking among themselves about what was happening out "at the ranch" they called it. I just asked what was going on - they didn't really know, just said there's some kind of stand-off between the cops and folks on the ranch.

I didn't think much of it, hopped back on my bike and just rode on.  When I finally got home, all I saw on the news were reports about the Branch Davidians in Waco Tx. I got pretty interested in this event.  Many Conservatives made it sound like the FBI/ATF burned down a church with a bunch of children in it.  Well, the compound burned and kids were killed.  The FBI/ATF and those that supported these agencies, were saying that Koresh wired the compound with explosives, and when ATF rammed a vehicle into it, this set off the explosives.

Look, I think it was a pretty FUBAR operation by FBI/ATF - I'm not disputing this.  But, what I would like to know, some 31 years later, is whether anyone maintains that Vernon Howell, a/k/a David Koresh, was a good person.  There was testimony from former Davidian members that Koresh was regularly having sex with children as young as 12 years old.  That kind of stuff never sat well with me.  And, it still doesn't.

Thoughts???

He was a cult leader. Though his members had a choice to not be a part of it, the children didn't. He often used the children as a tool to keep the parents involved. The parents were too afraid of what happen to their kids. So no. He was not a good person. 

nefarious101 » 46 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

46 minutes ago

In a world where corporate media has proven itself to be a bastion of misinformation...anything you hear is a toss up as far as truth is concerned

besides Pedo=Progressives do the same thing to kids too

I don't consider Vernon Howell a Christian of any sort or a conservative.  As a kid, he was a high-school drop out who was bounced around because his mother was only 14 when she had him. Had a rough life for sure, but he also liked dating underage girls when he was in his 20's, including a minister's daughter.

His relationships with young girls apparently continued when he became the leader of the Branch Dividians. And, when I read how he became the leader of the Branch Davidians, that really soured me on the guy.  Some stuff is undeniable and documented. From my perspective, he was another Jim Jones, or GG Allin.  A dirt-poor F-ed up kid who was likely abused, creating a charismatic personality who enjoyed abusing others.
Jesus Christ "GG" Allin

Vernon "David Koresh" Howell Weren't the 1990's just grand!

Skans » Today, 8:07 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 8:07 am

Back when the FBI and ATF burned down the Branch Davidian Church in 1994, I became interested in this.  One reason was because I just happened to be riding my motorcycle sometime in mid-April '94 through the town of Waco Texas. I stopped for gas and snacks in Waco and there were some locals talking among themselves about what was happening out "at the ranch" they called it. I just asked what was going on - they didn't really know, just said there's some kind of stand-off between the cops and folks on the ranch.

I didn't think much of it, hopped back on my bike and just rode on.  When I finally got home, all I saw on the news were reports about the Branch Davidians in Waco Tx. I got pretty interested in this event.  Many Conservatives made it sound like the FBI/ATF burned down a church with a bunch of children in it.  Well, the compound burned and kids were killed.  The FBI/ATF and those that supported these agencies, were saying that Koresh wired the compound with explosives, and when ATF rammed a vehicle into it, this set off the explosives.

Look, I think it was a pretty FUBAR operation by FBI/ATF - I'm not disputing this.  But, what I would like to know, some 31 years later, is whether anyone maintains that Vernon Howell, a/k/a David Koresh, was a good person.  There was testimony from former Davidian members that Koresh was regularly having sex with children as young as 12 years old.  That kind of stuff never sat well with me.  And, it still doesn't.

Thoughts???

He wasn't a 'good' person...he was just another manipulative pedophile using religion as the bait...
 

Vegas » Today, 10:20 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 10:20 am

He was a cult leader. Though his members had a choice to not be a part of it, the children didn't. He often used the children as a tool to keep the parents involved. The parents were too afraid of what happen to their kids. So no. He was not a good person.

cut from the same cloth as Warren Steed Jeffs...they're all sick ****...

Skans » Today, 11:02 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 11:02 am

I don't consider Vernon Howell a Christian of any sort or a conservative.  As a kid, he was a high-school drop out who was bounced around because his mother was only 14 when she had him. Had a rough life for sure, but he also liked dating underage girls when he was in his 20's, including a minister's daughter.

His relationships with young girls apparently continued when he became the leader of the Branch Dividians. And, when I read how he became the leader of the Branch Davidians, that really soured me on the guy.  Some stuff is undeniable and documented. From my perspective, he was another Jim Jones, or GG Allin.  A dirt-poor F-ed up kid who was likely abused, creating a charismatic personality who enjoyed abusing others.
Jesus Christ "GG" Allin

Vernon "David Koresh" Howell PS: GG Allin isn't really relevant, except for his childhood and emergence of a very charismatic personality. Something about guys born in the late 1950's into F-ed up families. I think they both died about a year apart (from memory).  Two extreme personalities from the Late '80's-Early '90's.

same as Warren Steed Jeffs....

ROG62 » 6 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

6 minutes ago

cut from the same cloth as Warren Steed Jeffs...they're all sick ****...

Jeff's wives still support him. He had like 76 of them. It's perplexing how people can delude themselves into such theater of grandiosity. The kids are the ones who really feel the injustices.  

Skans » Today, 11:02 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 11:02 am

I don't consider Vernon Howell a Christian of any sort or a conservative.  As a kid, he was a high-school drop out who was bounced around because his mother was only 14 when she had him. Had a rough life for sure, but he also liked dating underage girls when he was in his 20's, including a minister's daughter.

His relationships with young girls apparently continued when he became the leader of the Branch Dividians. And, when I read how he became the leader of the Branch Davidians, that really soured me on the guy.  Some stuff is undeniable and documented. From my perspective, he was another Jim Jones, or GG Allin.  A dirt-poor F-ed up kid who was likely abused, creating a charismatic personality who enjoyed abusing others.
Jesus Christ "GG" Allin

Vernon "David Koresh" Howell PS: GG Allin isn't really relevant, except for his childhood and emergence of a very charismatic personality. Something about guys born in the late 1950's into F-ed up families. I think they both died about a year apart (from memory).  Two extreme personalities from the Late '80's-Early '90's.

wasn't there a bunch of cultists who bought a bunch of rolls of quarters and poisoned themselves so they could be beam up to a spaceship. 

The quarters were for the vending machine aboard the spaceship

Vegas » Today, 1:10 pm » wrote: ↑

Today, 1:10 pm

Jeff's wives still support him. He had like 76 of them. It's perplexing how people can delude themselves into such theater of grandiosity. The kids are the ones who really feel the injustices.

proving the women (who hung with him) are pure unadulterated idiots....
 

ROG62 » Yesterday, 1:08 pm » wrote: ↑

Yesterday, 1:08 pm

same as Warren Steed Jeffs....

Now, there's a name I had to look up - never heard of the guy.  The one difference I noticed was that Jeffs came from a 2-parent home.  Allin and Howell didn't. Or at least, I think in Allin's case, mom divorced and his dad continued to live off the grid in the woods with no one really knowing what happened to him.

nefarious101 » Yesterday, 4:10 pm » wrote: ↑

Yesterday, 4:10 pm

wasn't there a bunch of cultists who bought a bunch of rolls of quarters and poisoned themselves so they could be beam up to a spaceship. 

The quarters were for the vending machine aboard the spaceship

I forgot about those idiots.  The "Hale-Bopp" Heaven's Gate cult.  Marshall Applewhite and his followers all killed themselves to hitch a ride on a comet. Where do people come up with this stuff?  And, how do they convince other weak-minded people to go along with them??? 

Do you think this crazy chick is going to be the next crazy-cult leader?

She's too stupid to pull it off by herself. I predict some nutty guy will get with her, capitalize on tard-worship, and send a bunch of young people off on a comet-ride to their new Koolaid-god.
 
 

Skans » 33 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

33 minutes ago

I forgot about those idiots.  The "Hale-Bopp" Heaven's Gate cult.  Marshall Applewhite and his followers all killed themselves to hitch a ride on a comet. Where do people come up with this stuff?  And, how do they convince other weak-minded people to go along with them??? 

Do you think this crazy chick is going to be the next crazy-cult leader?

She's too stupid to pull it off by herself. I predict some nutty guy will get with her, capitalize on tard-worship, and send a bunch of young people off on a comet-ride to their new Koolaid-god.

Oh yeah....the retarded girl.

The Global Warming Cultists worship the retarded girl

 

nefarious101 » Today, 8:26 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 8:26 am

Oh yeah....the retarded girl.

The Global Warming Cultists worship the retarded girl

She's ripe for the picking.  I could see a young, charismatic psychopath grabbing hold of that and using her to recruit people into his "climate-church".  A guy raised by a single mother, beat up as a child by mom's meth-boyfriend, then growing up in foster care.  Basically, a guy who's had all the fear beaten out of him as a young child, manipulative, with a lust for power and a thirst for getting rich quick.
 
 
 

Skans » Today, 7:41 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 7:41 am

Now, there's a name I had to look up - never heard of the guy.  The one difference I noticed was that Jeffs came from a 2-parent home.  Allin and Howell didn't. Or at least, I think in Allin's case, mom divorced and his dad continued to live off the grid in the woods with no one really knowing what happened to him.

There's a few good documentaries on him...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=500AGPW9nL8