Liberal Forum

Posted on June 16, 2025 by John Hinderaker in Iran, Israel

I DissentWith respect to Israel and Iran, talk of peace is in the air. We are beset with calls from various quarters to “de-escalate” the situation there, lest wider war break out. President Trump, who partnered with Israel in deceiving Iran prior to Israel’s preemptive strike, is now talking about making another deal with Iran.

I hope he doesn’t mean it. The last thing Israel, or anyone else, should be thinking about is another agreement with the mullahs. Israel now controls the skies, has largely degraded Iran’s missile capability, and can do pretty much anything it wants, militarily. It was delightful to see that Israel wiped out the regime’s state broadcaster.

So this is a golden opportunity, almost certainly the best one Israel ever has had, or ever will have, to bring about regime change in Iran. The mullahocracy needs to go. Neither Israel nor the rest of the world will ever be safe, as long as Islamic extremists control Iran. Israel has already demolished Iran’s proxies, Hamas, Hezbollah, and, to a lesser extent, the Houthis. But if Iran’s regime is allowed to stay in place, it will readily rebuild its terrorist infrastructure, just as it will eventually rebuild its nuclear capability.

I don’t know exactly how regime change will come about. I believe that the mullahs are unpopular with most Iranians, and that most Iranians would like to live in a modern, normal country. I don’t know how the transition to a new government will take place, but likely the Israelis have been thinking about, and planning for, this eventuality. In any case, Israel should continue to pound Iran and keep the pressure on until the leadership of the regime is more or less wiped out, and the mullahs are gone from power. It should ignore all pressure to the contrary.

Only with a new, more or less secular, Iran, will Israel–or the rest of the world–be safe. Israel should settle for nothing less.

I Dissent | Power Line
 

Buffalo » 16 Jun 2025, 4:12 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Jun 2025, 4:12 pm

Posted on June 16, 2025 by John Hinderaker in Iran, Israel

I DissentWith respect to Israel and Iran, talk of peace is in the air. We are beset with calls from various quarters to “de-escalate” the situation there, lest wider war break out. President Trump, who partnered with Israel in deceiving Iran prior to Israel’s preemptive strike, is now talking about making another deal with Iran.

I hope he doesn’t mean it. The last thing Israel, or anyone else, should be thinking about is another agreement with the mullahs. Israel now controls the skies, has largely degraded Iran’s missile capability, and can do pretty much anything it wants, militarily. It was delightful to see that Israel wiped out the regime’s state broadcaster.

So this is a golden opportunity, almost certainly the best one Israel ever has had, or ever will have, to bring about regime change in Iran. The mullahocracy needs to go. Neither Israel nor the rest of the world will ever be safe, as long as Islamic extremists control Iran. Israel has already demolished Iran’s proxies, Hamas, Hezbollah, and, to a lesser extent, the Houthis. But if Iran’s regime is allowed to stay in place, it will readily rebuild its terrorist infrastructure, just as it will eventually rebuild its nuclear capability.

I don’t know exactly how regime change will come about. I believe that the mullahs are unpopular with most Iranians, and that most Iranians would like to live in a modern, normal country. I don’t know how the transition to a new government will take place, but likely the Israelis have been thinking about, and planning for, this eventuality. In any case, Israel should continue to pound Iran and keep the pressure on until the leadership of the regime is more or less wiped out, and the mullahs are gone from power. It should ignore all pressure to the contrary.

Only with a new, more or less secular, Iran, will Israel–or the rest of the world–be safe. Israel should settle for nothing less.

I Dissent | Power Line

The People of Iran must bring about regime change, IF THEY WANT IT.  It would be a big, no FREAKING HUGE mistake for Israel to force regime change if the Iranian People don't want it.  I have to believe that there are a lot of Iranian men who like things just the way they are.  Women, alone, cannot and will not bring about any regime change. It didn't work when the US tried this in other **** countries.  And, I highly doubt Israel would be any better at it than we were. 

Israel needs to do what it needs to do and then get the F- out.  Leave Iran to the Iranians - their fate is their own  How many of the IRGC is Israel going to be able to slaughter? Either huge portions of the IRGC need to get behind regime change, or it ain't going to happen.  The Iranian people need to know that their own military isn't going to slice them to bits as soon as Israel leaves.  


 

World War 3 is just around the corner....let's get to it!

Skans » 16 Jun 2025, 6:37 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Jun 2025, 6:37 pm

The People of Iran must bring about regime change, IF THEY WANT IT.  It would be a big, no FREAKING HUGE mistake for Israel to force regime change if the Iranian People don't want it.  I have to believe that there are a lot of Iranian men who like things just the way they are.  Women, alone, cannot and will not bring about any regime change. It didn't work when the US tried this in other **** countries.  And, I highly doubt Israel would be any better at it than we were. 

Israel needs to do what it needs to do and then get the F- out.  Leave Iran to the Iranians - their fate is their own  How many of the IRGC is Israel going to be able to slaughter? Either huge portions of the IRGC need to get behind regime change, or it ain't going to happen.  The Iranian people need to know that their own military isn't going to slice them to bits as soon as Israel leaves.

The People of Iran Are Shouting for Regime Change – But Is the West Listening?

The Iranian People Want Regime Change- Now | RealClearDefense

Study: Majority of Iranians want regime change as country's protests continue to grow | Fox News

Buffalo » 16 Jun 2025, 8:43 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Jun 2025, 8:43 pm

The People of Iran Are Shouting for Regime Change – But Is the West Listening?

The Iranian People Want Regime Change- Now | RealClearDefense

Study: Majority of Iranians want regime change as country's protests continue to grow | Fox News

Let's say that the "majority" of Americans wanted Regime Change, i.e. to install a Communist Dictator with no term limits, like Tim Walz.  What do you think the other 49% of the people would do?

It's not enough to have a simple majority for Regime Change.  You need an overwhelming majority.  Because this majority won't just be fighting the Mullahs and Generals in charge, they would be fighting their neighbors, their husbands, perhaps even their children (or parents) who may be quite comfortable with the way things are. 

Israel doesn't have any real clout within Iran.  Most Iranians perceive it as the enemy.  Israel needs to stop looking through rose colored glasses and see the Iranians for who and what they are.  Get the job done, get out and get ready to do it again in about 10 years. 
 

Skans » 17 Jun 2025, 6:45 am » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 6:45 am

Let's say that the "majority" of Americans wanted Regime Change, i.e. to install a Communist Dictator with no term limits, like Tim Walz.  What do you think the other 49% of the people would do?

It's not enough to have a simple majority for Regime Change.  You need an overwhelming majority.  Because this majority won't just be fighting the Mullahs and Generals in charge, they would be fighting their neighbors, their husbands, perhaps even their children (or parents) who may be quite comfortable with the way things are. 

Israel doesn't have any real clout within Iran.  Most Iranians perceive it as the enemy.  Israel needs to stop looking through rose colored glasses and see the Iranians for who and what they are.  Get the job done, get out and get ready to do it again in about 10 years.

Some 80% of men and women support regime change in Iran.  THAT is more than a simple majority.

I agree.  Israel needs to finish the job and destroy any possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons.
 

Buffalo » 17 Jun 2025, 6:58 am » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 6:58 am

Some 80% of men and women support regime change in Iran.  THAT is more than a simple majority.

I agree.  Israel needs to finish the job and destroy any possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons.

See, right there, I don't believe that statistic. In a patriarchal society like Iran's, I simply don't believe that 80% of the men want change.  Why would they?  So, I really question that 80% claim.  

How would you feel about Regime Change in Iran if only 50% of the people wanted it and the other 50% didn't?
 

Skans » 17 Jun 2025, 7:55 am » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 7:55 am

See, right there, I don't believe that statistic. In a patriarchal society like Iran's, I simply don't believe that 80% of the men want change.  Why would they?  So, I really question that 80% claim.  

How would you feel about Regime Change in Iran if only 50% of the people wanted it and the other 50% didn't?

How do you think people here feel with Trump winning with 76.9 MILLION votes while the cackling ho got 74.4 MILLION votes.  That's preety close to 50/50.
The regime in Iran is extremely repressive and sclerotic.  THAT is why most men and women in Iran WANT regime change.
 

Buffalo » 17 Jun 2025, 8:09 am » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 8:09 am

How do you think people here feel with Trump winning with 76.9 MILLION votes while the cackling ho got 74.4 MILLION votes.  That's preety close to 50/50.
The regime in Iran is extremely repressive and sclerotic.  THAT is why most men and women in Iran WANT regime change.

First, you cannot compare the US with Iran. We are a Democracy with elections, albeit lately there have been questions about election rigging by Democrats. We also have term limits on the Presidency. In Iran an Assembly of Experts chooses their supreme leader. Heck, there are a lot more differences than that.

Second, neither you nor I know what the people of Iran want.  We have no way of knowing.  Also, the fact that they have not attempted any overthrow of the current leaders indicates that at least some of the population supports the current regime. 

What I do know is that where outside countries lead the charge for regime change, I can't recall a time where it actually worked.  Can you?
 

Skans » 17 Jun 2025, 9:30 am » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 9:30 am

First, you cannot compare the US with Iran. We are a Democracy with elections, albeit lately there have been questions about election rigging by Democrats. We also have term limits on the Presidency. In Iran an Assembly of Experts chooses their supreme leader. Heck, there are a lot more differences than that.

Second, neither you nor I know what the people of Iran want.  We have no way of knowing.  Also, the fact that they have not attempted any overthrow of the current leaders indicates that at least some of the population supports the current regime. 

What I do know is that where outside countries lead the charge for regime change, I can't recall a time where it actually worked.  Can you?

Oh, I think you are wrong.  The citizens of Iran are fed up with mismanagement, corruption and 40% inflation. Iranians do get to vote but because of widespread corruption voter participation has fallen to a low 40%.  That being said, why do I care about Iran's corruption economic problems and tyrannical government? I don't.  There are many countries with worse problems. 
Hopefully Israel will destroy every ounce of Iran's nuclear possibilities and my concern for them is eliminated.

Buffalo » 17 Jun 2025, 1:52 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 1:52 pm

Oh, I think you are wrong.  The citizens of Iran are fed up with mismanagement, corruption and 40% inflation.
 

So we've been told.  But, who's telling us that?  It's hard enough in our own country to figure out what "The People" want as far as leadership until after an election.  So, when I hear this, either by the media who always gets election outcomes wrong, or even worse by Israeli politicians or American politicians, I'm very very skeptical. 

Don't forget, the people of Iran wanted to get rid of the Shaw too.  And, there seems to be a lot more reality in that, than with the claim that Iran wants Regime Change. 

Iranians do get to vote... 

Exactly, so how do the people telling us that Iranians want Regime Change actually know anything about what the Iranian people want? They don't.  

Hopefully Israel will destroy every ounce of Iran's nuclear possibilities and my concern for them is eliminated.

Israel can do what it needs to do for Israel.  Iran has been a real enemy to them, so I support their right to do this.  But, STOP pretending that Israel is doing this for the American People because they aren't.  No more so than Ukraine is fighting the Russians for the United States. 
 

Skans » 17 Jun 2025, 2:34 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 2:34 pm

So we've been told.  But, who's telling us that?  It's hard enough in our own country to figure out what "The People" want as far as leadership until after an election.  So, when I hear this, either by the media who always gets election outcomes wrong, or even worse by Israeli politicians or American politicians, I'm very very skeptical. 

Don't forget, the people of Iran wanted to get rid of the Shaw too.  And, there seems to be a lot more reality in that, than with the claim that Iran wants Regime Change. 

Exactly, so how do the people telling us that Iranians want Regime Change actually know anything about what the Iranian people want? They don't.  

Israel can do what it needs to do for Israel.  Iran has been a real enemy to them, so I support their right to do this.  But, STOP pretending that Israel is doing this for the American People because they aren't.  No more so than Ukraine is fighting the Russians for the United States.

Do you not think that the people of Iran talk to outsiders?  I think the average everyday citizen of Iran knows what the populace wants. 

And they got rid of the shaw. 

They know what the people of Iran are telling them.

Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism worldwide, and yes, in particular the middle east.  Israel is not fighting the Iranian military and mullahs for the US?  ****!!! I think Israel is doing exactly what President Trump wants.  We have been arming Israel for many years.
 

Skans » 17 Jun 2025, 2:34 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 2:34 pm

So we've been told.  But, who's telling us that?  It's hard enough in our own country to figure out what "The People" want as far as leadership until after an election.  So, when I hear this, either by the media who always gets election outcomes wrong, or even worse by Israeli politicians or American politicians, I'm very very skeptical. 
Don't forget, the people of Iran wanted to get rid of the Shaw too.  And, there seems to be a lot more reality in that, than with the claim that Iran wants Regime Change. 

Exactly, so how do the people telling us that Iranians want Regime Change actually know anything about what the Iranian people want? They don't.  

Israel can do what it needs to do for Israel.  Iran has been a real enemy to them, so I support their right to do this.  But, STOP pretending that Israel is doing this for the American People because they aren't.  No more so than Ukraine is fighting the Russians for the United States.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1935037345461653974Pahlavi posted a video of himself speaking Farsi, but also included an English version pleading with Iranian citizens to rise up and overthrow the current dictator's regime, saying:

In these difficult days, my heart is with all the defenseless citizens who have been harmed and have fallen victim to Khamenei's warmongering and delusions. For years, I have tried to prevent our homeland from being consumed by the fire of war.
The end of the Islamic Republic is the end of its 46-year war against the Iranian nation.
The regime's apparatus of repression is falling apart. All it takes now is a nationwide uprising to put an end to this nightmare once and for all.

Now is the time to rise; the time to reclaim Iran. Let us all come forward – from Bandar Abbas to Bandar Anzali, from Shiraz to Isfahan, from Tabriz to Zahedan, from Mashhad to Ahvaz, from Shahr-e Kord to Kermanshah – and bring about the end of this regime.
Do not fear the day after the fall of the Islamic Republic. Iran will not descend into civil war or instability. We have a plan for Iran's future and its flourishing. We are prepared for the first hundred days after the fall, for the transitional period, and for the establishment of a national and democratic government – by the Iranian people and for the Iranian people.
To the military, law enforcement, security forces, and state employees – many of whom have been sending me messages in recent days – I say: Do not stand against the Iranian people for the sake of a regime whose fall has begun and is inevitable. Do not sacrifice yourselves for a decaying regime. By standing with the people, you can save your lives. Play a historic role in the transition from the Islamic Republic, and take part in building the future of Iran.
A free and flourishing Iran lies ahead of us. May we be together soon.

 

@SouthernFried   is  a chicken nacho

viewtopic.php?p=2758877#p2758877
 

Israel Acted for All of Us
Special Thanks to President Donald Trump, Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Great IDF

by Amin Sharifi

June 18, 2025 at 5:00 am

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2169 ... -all-of-us

 "But, STOP pretending that Israel is doing this for the American People because they aren't."
YES THEY ARE!!!
 

Buffalo » 17 Jun 2025, 6:58 am » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 6:58 am

Some 80% of men and women support regime change in Iran.  THAT is more than a simple majority.

I agree.  Israel needs to finish the job and destroy any possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons.

Well, the B-2 Stealth bombers are on the way, no doubt carrying several of our MOP bombs and ready to strike Fordow.  And the Iranian people are in bumper to bumper traffic trying to get out of Dodge:
 
America’s B-2 Spirit Bombers Are Preparing to Strike Iran
June 18, 2025 By: Brandon J. Weichert

Over the last 24 hours, the United States has repositioned the resources required to support a long-range B-2 stealth bombing run into Iran. With Iranian AD systems still not operating at full efficiency, the command-and-control elements of the regime in total disarray, and the natural ability of American stealth planes to stymie detection methods available to Iran, the likelihood is real that the Americans are readying to put the kill shot on Iran’s nuclear weapons ambitions.

The U.S. bunker buster bombs, particularly the GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator, are designed to penetrate deep underground targets, such as fortified bunkers. Weighing 30,000 pounds and capable of penetrating 200 feet, these bombs are primarily used by the U.S. Air Force and can only be delivered by large bombers like the B-2 Spirit.
 
 

Skans » 17 Jun 2025, 2:34 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2025, 2:34 pm

So we've been told.  But, who's telling us that?  It's hard enough in our own country to figure out what "The People" want as far as leadership until after an election.  So, when I hear this, either by the media who always gets election outcomes wrong, or even worse by Israeli politicians or American politicians, I'm very very skeptical. 

Don't forget, the people of Iran wanted to get rid of the Shaw too.  And, there seems to be a lot more reality in that, than with the claim that Iran wants Regime Change. 

Exactly, so how do the people telling us that Iranians want Regime Change actually know anything about what the Iranian people want? They don't.  

Israel can do what it needs to do for Israel.  Iran has been a real enemy to them, so I support their right to do this.  But, STOP pretending that Israel is doing this for the American People because they aren't.  No more so than Ukraine is fighting the Russians for the United States.

Iranians Chant for Shah’s Return As Terrorist Regime Collapses – PJ Media
 

Buffalo » 18 Jun 2025, 4:13 pm » wrote: ↑

18 Jun 2025, 4:13 pm

Iranians Chant for Shah’s Return As Terrorist Regime Collapses – PJ Media

You sure those aren't Mossad agents?
 

Skans » 18 Jun 2025, 4:20 pm » wrote: ↑

18 Jun 2025, 4:20 pm

You sure those aren't Mossad agents?