Liberal Forum

I have been convinced for a while now that NATO's days are numbered. The utter failure in Coupkraine will be more than the alliance can stand, IMO. Losing a proxy war may seem a small matter. It isn't. The credibility that was lost on the global stage is extreme. But the resources and infrastructure that were lost to Europe are literally irreplaceable. Germany has high labor costs and no natural resources. But it had cheap Russian gas and the Nord Stream 2 and a lot of great engineering know how. So it was competetive in the global market. Now it is a husk. Europe is economically ruined for the next couple of generations. There isn't a cure. 

Now we begin to see the promise of NATO's impending collapse. I believe that nations will begin to opt out of NATO in order to gain favor with other power players in the already extant and quickly strengthening multi-polar world. And here is a sign: Germany and the UK - NATO members both - just negotiated a mutual defense treaty. Any time that you see duplication, you know that something is off. Article five isn't enough, suddenly? Why would that be? 

The only reason these two nations would need this redundancy is if neither has confidence in Article 5. They appear to be preparing themselves against the possibility of the dissolution of NATO. 

https://apnews.com/article/uk-germany-s ... 5ee6d87514
 
 
 

Cannonpointer » 27 Jul 2025, 8:46 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jul 2025, 8:46 pm

I have been convinced for a while now that NATO's days are numbered. The utter failure in Coupkraine will be more than the alliance can stand, IMO. Losing a proxy war may seem a small matter. It isn't. The credibility that was lost on the global stage is extreme. But the resources and infrastructure that were lost to Europe are literally irreplaceable. Germany has high labor costs and no natural resources. But it had cheap Russian gas and the Nord Stream 2 and a lot of great engineering know how. So it was competetive in the global market. Now it is a husk. Europe is economically ruined for the next couple of generations. There isn't a cure. 

Now we begin to see the promise of NATO's impending collapse. I believe that nations will begin to opt out of NATO in order to gain favor with other power players in the already extant and quickly strengthening multi-polar world. And here is a sign: Germany and the UK - NATO members both - just negotiated a mutual defense treaty. Any time that you see duplication, you know that something is off. Article five isn't enough, suddenly? Why would that be? 

The only reason these two nations would need this redundancy is if neither has confidence in Article 5. They appear to be preparing themselves against the possibility of the dissolution of NATO. 

https://apnews.com/article/uk-germany-s ... 5ee6d87514

Good post. 

Russia has longed wanted to get back to their glory of the Soviet Union days. If NATO dissolves, Russia could proceed with their ambitions and finish taking Ukraine, then Georgia, and Maldova. 

The Irony: NATO was created to provide collective security against the Soviet Union. Instead of dissolving itself, NATO redefines its purpose to be keepers of the peace, provide stability, and manage chaos. Fast forward to today. Now NATO may collapse and the Russia will once again become the Soviet Union. 

The world's stage is built on irony. 
 
 

Russia fought 2 seperate wars in Georgia.

One the 1990s another 2008

Vegas » 27 Jul 2025, 9:34 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jul 2025, 9:34 pm

Good post. 

Russia has longed wanted to get back to their glory of the Soviet Union days. If NATO dissolves, Russia could proceed with their ambitions and finish taking Ukraine, then Georgia, and Maldova. 

The Irony: NATO was created to provide collective security against the Soviet Union. Instead of dissolving itself, NATO redefines its purpose to be keepers of the peace, provide stability, and manage chaos. Fast forward to today. Now NATO may collapse and the Russia will once again become the Soviet Union. 

The world's stage is built on irony.

Putin tried to join NATO. NATO turned him down. They needed Russia for an enemy - for a reason to exist. And they salivated over its resources and scoffed at its sovereignty. 

If Europe and the US had allowed Russia into Europe's security infrastructure, the world would still be unipolar. The west would still be running ****, unquestioned. But the assholes said no. In 2007, after exhausting his attempts to join the west, Putin began putting feelers out to the east and global shouth. BRICS is the result. He made his stand at the Munich Conference in 2007, calling out the unipolar world and declaring that it would not stand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6hzj6_DUwQ

I do not believe for one minute that Putin has any desire for Georgia. They are not a slavic nation. Putin is a slav, and this has great meaning for him. Being pushed into killing his fellow slavs in Coupkraine is not something he is going to forgive. Taking over Moldova will be a half hour task if he undertakes it. But again, they're basically Romanians off the reservation. Putin inherited and is stuck with some "diversity." But he isn't looking for any more. He SEES Russia as a slavic nation. As an ethno-state. As the cradle and hearth of the Slavic race. He isn't looking to expand. He isn't looking for more diversity.; He has no desire to govern Germans or Spaniards or Latvians. He has 11 time zones to look after. He doesn't need another. He needs TIME to develop the land he already has. He has a list of **** he wants to accomplish before he dies, and he is being forced to **** around in Coupkraine and fend off these sanctions and build a power base to offset the constant economic attacks of the west which rejected his bid to join them.

When NATO collapses, many South-Eastern European nations will court Russia, will very much want to be in Russia's economic sphere. Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, NATURALLY Serbia (Slavs and Russophiles all), Slovenia, Croatia. All of these will look to establish trade relations with Moscow. Likely Slavic Poland will, as well. But conquest? The only ones still thinking in those terms are NATO - and it failed, and that failure destroyed NATO, IMO. I say it is running on fumes and habit and lack of imagination. But the British and the Germans have imagination. They can feel it in the air tonight, Oh Lord. 
 
 

Okay on one sense I can respect Russia wanting old agreements Old man H.W. Bush administration not to expand N.A.T.O.

Another sense Russia millitary has shown extreme "Incompetence" cant even kick a smaller "former" right back into line neither

Russia couldnt even keep SYRIA

Russian Navy call off parade due to Ukranian Drone Attacks..

From "Zerohedge" by the way too..

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... ne-attacks...

"When asked about the cancelations and scaled-down events, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov described the decision as "linked to the overall situation, for security reasons, which take precedence."

 There was at least one injury from the overnight drone attacks, said to be from falling debris.

As has become somewhat the norm, there was a spate of flight cancelations at some Russian airports on Sunday.

 Putin is meanwhile vowing an expansion of the navy, both in terms of manpower and vessels - as well as training.

"The navy's strike power and combat readiness will reach a new qualitative level," he stated."

 Throughout the war Russian's Black Sea naval fleet has particularly suffered. Major warships have at times been damaged or put out of commission, even while docked, due to heavy drone attack, and even being struck by sea drones.

 This has resulted in the huge task of actually removing some key Russian vessels from Black Sea ports to the Caspian Sea in order to allow them better protection."
 
 
 

Cannonpointer » 27 Jul 2025, 10:42 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jul 2025, 10:42 pm

Putin tried to join NATO. NATO turned him down. They needed Russia for an enemy - for a reason to exist. And they salivated over its resources and scoffed at its sovereignty. 

If Europe and the US had allowed Russia into Europe's security infrastructure, the world would still be unipolar. The west would still be running ****, unquestioned. But the assholes said no. In 2007, after exhausting his attempts to join the west, Putin began putting feelers out to the east and global shouth. BRICS is the result. He made his stand at the Munich Conference in 2007, calling out the unipolar world and declaring that it would not stand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6hzj6_DUwQ

I do not believe for one minute that Putin has any desire for Georgia. They are not a slavic nation. Putin is a slav, and this has great meaning for him. Being pushed into killing his fellow slavs in Coupkraine is not something he is going to forgive. Taking over Moldova will be a half hour task if he undertakes it. But again, they're basically Romanians off the reservation. Putin inherited and is stuck with some "diversity." But he isn't looking for any more. He SEES Russia as a slavic nation. As an ethno-state. As the cradle and hearth of the Slavic race. He isn't looking to expand. He isn't looking for more diversity.; He has no desire to govern Germans or Spaniards or Latvians. He has 11 time zones to look after. He doesn't need another. He needs TIME to develop the land he already has. He has a list of **** he wants to accomplish before he dies, and he is being forced to **** around in Coupkraine and fend off these sanctions and build a power base to offset the constant economic attacks of the west which rejected his bid to join them.

When NATO collapses, many South-Eastern European nations will court Russia, will very much want to be in Russia's economic sphere. Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, NATURALLY Serbia (Slavs and Russophiles all), Slovenia, Croatia. All of these will look to establish trade relations with Moscow. Likely Slavic Poland will, as well. But conquest? The only ones still thinking in those terms are NATO - and it failed, and that failure destroyed NATO, IMO. I say it is running on fumes and habit and lack of imagination. But the British and the Germans have imagination. They can feel it in the air tonight, Oh Lord.

What’s the white hierarchy again?

Brits = Germans = Nords = Swiss > French = Dutch = Czech > Spanish = Poles = Italians = Greeks > Irish = Slavs

Hannity is a dumb mofo (which is why Irish = bottom) 

FOS said “I don’t even have any FRENCH in me” 

 
 

LowIQTrash » 28 Jul 2025, 12:31 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2025, 12:31 am

What’s the white hierarchy again?

Brits = Germans = Nords = Swiss > French = Dutch = Czech > Spanish = Poles = Italians = Greeks > Irish = Slavs

Hannity is a dumb mofo (which is why Irish = bottom) 

FOS said “I don’t even have any FRENCH in me” 

Try sticking 2 the WAR..

DRONES the sheer Asymetric warfare in Ukraine has rewritten all future warfare from here on out
 

Cannonpointer » 27 Jul 2025, 8:46 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jul 2025, 8:46 pm

I have been convinced for a while now that NATO's days are numbered. The utter failure in Coupkraine will be more than the alliance can stand, IMO. Losing a proxy war may seem a small matter. It isn't. The credibility that was lost on the global stage is extreme. But the resources and infrastructure that were lost to Europe are literally irreplaceable. Germany has high labor costs and no natural resources. But it had cheap Russian gas and the Nord Stream 2 and a lot of great engineering know how. So it was competetive in the global market. Now it is a husk. Europe is economically ruined for the next couple of generations. There isn't a cure. 

Now we begin to see the promise of NATO's impending collapse. I believe that nations will begin to opt out of NATO in order to gain favor with other power players in the already extant and quickly strengthening multi-polar world. And here is a sign: Germany and the UK - NATO members both - just negotiated a mutual defense treaty. Any time that you see duplication, you know that something is off. Article five isn't enough, suddenly? Why would that be? 

The only reason these two nations would need this redundancy is if neither has confidence in Article 5. They appear to be preparing themselves against the possibility of the dissolution of NATO. 

https://apnews.com/article/uk-germany-s ... 5ee6d87514

Brexit was a HUGE earlier signal Europeans aren't all buddies.

Germany was the big cheese in the bad damned if we do/damned if we don't position.
They are top dog in a crumbling kennel.

Not surprising they both came to the same basic conclusion: Which is scarier - NATO or Russia?

LowIQTrash » 28 Jul 2025, 12:31 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2025, 12:31 am

FOS said “I don’t even have any FRENCH in me” 

I don't think he accounted for your tongue in his ***.
 

Cannonpointer » 27 Jul 2025, 8:46 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Jul 2025, 8:46 pm

I have been convinced for a while now that NATO's days are numbered. The utter failure in Coupkraine will be more than the alliance can stand, IMO. Losing a proxy war may seem a small matter. It isn't. The credibility that was lost on the global stage is extreme. But the resources and infrastructure that were lost to Europe are literally irreplaceable. Germany has high labor costs and no natural resources. But it had cheap Russian gas and the Nord Stream 2 and a lot of great engineering know how. So it was competetive in the global market. Now it is a husk. Europe is economically ruined for the next couple of generations. There isn't a cure. 

Now we begin to see the promise of NATO's impending collapse. I believe that nations will begin to opt out of NATO in order to gain favor with other power players in the already extant and quickly strengthening multi-polar world. And here is a sign: Germany and the UK - NATO members both - just negotiated a mutual defense treaty. Any time that you see duplication, you know that something is off. Article five isn't enough, suddenly? Why would that be? 

The only reason these two nations would need this redundancy is if neither has confidence in Article 5. They appear to be preparing themselves against the possibility of the dissolution of NATO. 

https://apnews.com/article/uk-germany-s ... 5ee6d87514
 
 
 

Intellectual humanity is imploding globally and I helped silently and nobody believes I started it 19 years ago. The beauty of Nostradamus' one male prophecy.

any ancestor could have done it being honest within their own brain. But everyone minds ideas life exceeds time adapting since displaced at conception living eternally separated per heartbeat forward now. Ha ha ha ha ha off to peanut gallery or banned again. Gotcha.

LowIQTrash » 28 Jul 2025, 12:31 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2025, 12:31 am

What’s the white hierarchy again?

Brits = Germans = Nords = Swiss > French = Dutch = Czech > Spanish = Poles = Italians = Greeks > Irish = Slavs

Hannity is a dumb mofo (which is why Irish = bottom) 

FOS said “I don’t even have any FRENCH in me” 

That's the old order. 

We're watching the script flip in real time. 
 

DeezerShoove » 28 Jul 2025, 5:49 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2025, 5:49 am

Brexit was a HUGE earlier signal Europeans aren't all buddies.

Germany was the big cheese in the bad damned if we do/damned if we don't position.
They are top dog in a crumbling kennel.

Not surprising they both came to the same basic conclusion: Which is scarier - NATO or Russia?

The answer to that question appears tobe shifting. NATO is starting to look like aprotection racket.

The big boss stirs up a hornets' nest to get those collections up.
 

Cannonpointer » 28 Jul 2025, 9:09 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2025, 9:09 am

The answer to that question appears tobe shifting. NATO is starting to look like aprotection racket.

The big boss stirs up a hornets' nest to get those collections up.

So because Trump feels Europeans should Pay their "Fair Share" plus set up military industrial so we dont run out of ammo and anti-aircraft missles.

Whats wrong with that USA been footing the bill supplying the weapons many generations over now.

Trump told em "Pony Up" pay ya "Fair Share" or USA leaving NATO

Cannonpointer » 28 Jul 2025, 9:09 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2025, 9:09 am

The answer to that question appears tobe shifting. NATO is starting to look like aprotection racket.

The big boss stirs up a hornets' nest to get those collections up.

Aren't organizations based on international "cooperation" always that?

TwoIfByTea » 28 Jul 2025, 10:55 am » wrote: ↑

28 Jul 2025, 10:55 am

So because Trump feels Europeans should Pay their "Fair Share" plus set up military industrial so we dont run out of ammo and anti-aircraft missles.

Whats wrong with that USA been footing the bill supplying the weapons many generations over now.

Trump told em "Pony Up" pay ya "Fair Share" or USA leaving NATO

US taxpayers have been getting *** raped by the MIC. If the homosexual community wishes to reframe that as "footing the bill," so be it. Now, the Europeans are going to get *** raped, too. That is "only fair" - to retards. 

I love spin.
Of course a lot of this is true but conjecture about what **** means is fascinating.
17min. history of NATO.

https://youtu.be/cqcMCPSOUxE?si=aWrcywMwlKRh913B