Liberal Forum

Putin's demands are not unreasonable. No NATO at his doorstep. What is wrong with that? On the other side of this coin, Putin did mess up. He rarely keeps his word. He says he will go left, then he goes right. He has always been that way. Since his word can't be trusted, then it's pretty pointless for him to make demands, though reasonable, onto anyone. 

The US should step out of the way, and let the chips fall where they may. 

Russian President Vladimir Putin made his demands clear on what it would take for him to cease military operations in Ukraine when speaking with President Donald Trump in Alaska less than one week ago, reports confirmed Thursday.No NATO admittance, no Western troops in Ukraine and hand over the Donbas region — a litany of demands that Moscow has previously stated, but which it formally informed Washington of on Friday, sources familiar with the Kremlin’s negotiations told Reuters. The report also claimed that Putin would agree to freeze the front lines where it currently stands in Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia, as well as relinquish some territory it has captured in the Kharkiv, Sumy, and Dnipropetrovsk regions. Following the initial invasion in February 2022, Russian forces were able to sweep large sections of territory. But by late summer that year, Ukraine began launching successful counter offenses where it recaptured significant portions of land in Kherson and Kharkiv.But since 2023, the frontlines have remained largely stagnant, with Russia reportedly occupying less than 20 percent of Ukraine — an estimated seven percent of which was previously taken in 2014, when Russia fully occupied Crimea and parts of the Donbas. Russian forces currently occupy some 88 percent of the Donbas, nearly all the Luhansk region and roughly 75 percent of Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.Russian-controlled territory in Sumy and Kharkiv is estimated to equate to roughly 150 sq. miles combined, and a fraction of this in Dnipropetrovsk. 

Putin issues formal demands to end Ukraine war after meeting Trump: report

Vegas » 21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm

Putin's demands are not unreasonable. No NATO at his doorstep. What is wrong with that? On the other side of this coin, Putin did mess up. He rarely keeps his word. He says he will go left, then he goes right. He has always been that way. Since his word can't be trusted, then it's pretty pointless for him to make demands, though reasonable, onto anyone. 

The US should step out of the way, and let the chips fall where they may. 

Putin issues formal demands to end Ukraine war after meeting Trump: report

he has always said no to nato.

I agree this was bungled by biden and I said so at the time.

trump kept  it up.

Vegas » 21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm

Putin's demands are not unreasonable. No NATO at his doorstep. What is wrong with that? On the other side of this coin, Putin did mess up. He rarely keeps his word. He says he will go left, then he goes right. He has always been that way. Since his word can't be trusted, then it's pretty pointless for him to make demands, though reasonable, onto anyone. 

The US should step out of the way, and let the chips fall where they may. 

Putin issues formal demands to end Ukraine war after meeting Trump: report

No NATO admittance, no Western troops in Ukraine and hand over the Donbas region — a litany of demands that Moscow has previously stated, but which it formally informed Washington of on Friday, sources familiar with the Kremlin’s negotiations told Reuters.///-------------------------------------------

maybe at least make it fair to  donbas and have a security council there for grievances.
 

Vegas » 21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm

Putin's demands are not unreasonable. No NATO at his doorstep. What is wrong with that? On the other side of this coin, Putin did mess up. He rarely keeps his word. He says he will go left, then he goes right. He has always been that way. Since his word can't be trusted, then it's pretty pointless for him to make demands, though reasonable, onto anyone. 

The US should step out of the way, and let the chips fall where they may. 

Putin issues formal demands to end Ukraine war after meeting Trump: report

NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union, which no longer exists. NATO has been screwing (financially) the USA for a very long time. The alliance is outdated and no longer reflects the geopolitical realities of the 21st century. Leaving NATO could give the U.S. more freedom to pursue its own foreign policy without being bound by collective defense obligations. **** NATO. 
 
 

MR-7 » 21 Aug 2025, 3:43 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 3:43 pm

NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union, which no longer exists. NATO has been screwing (financially) the USA for a very long time. The alliance is outdated and no longer reflects the geopolitical realities of the 21st century. Leaving NATO could give the U.S. more freedom to pursue its own foreign policy without being bound by collective defense obligations. **** NATO.

Agreed. 

Vegas » 21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm

Putin's demands are not unreasonable. No NATO at his doorstep. What is wrong with that? On the other side of this coin, Putin did mess up. He rarely keeps his word. He says he will go left, then he goes right. He has always been that way. Since his word can't be trusted, then it's pretty pointless for him to make demands, though reasonable, onto anyone.

Name one.

One lie Putin told, one time Russia broke its word.

Name one.

Vegas » 21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 2:55 pm

The US should step out of the way, and let the chips fall where they may.

The US overthrew the government of Coupkraine, armed it, trained itr, funded it, and provided it with mercenaries, intelligence, and materiel in order to use it as a battering ram against Russia. Then it imposed an enormous and escalating regime of sanctions. Europe stole its external sovereign wealth. And ALL of this was planned WAAAY in advance in policy papers from right wing think tanks.

And you wanna pretend that we can just "step aside" and leave those who are responsible for this **** to manage it?

WE are responsible for this ****. The USA planned it. The USA funded it. The USA started it. Not Russia. The USA - through Coupkraine.
 

jerrab » 21 Aug 2025, 3:25 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 3:25 pm

he has always said no to nato.

I agree this was bungled by biden and I said so at the time.

trump kept  it up.

Trump sandwiched biden on this ****. 

Trump did as much to cause this war as biden. 
 

Cannonpointer » 21 Aug 2025, 7:18 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 7:18 pm

Nam eone.

One lie Putin told, one time Russia broke its word.

Name one.

So are you on the Epstein List Dude?

AI OverviewMultiple sources indicate that Russian President Vladimir Putin has made public statements contradicted by available evidence
. 
Here are a few notable examples:

• Denial of Russian involvement in the 2016 US election: Despite multiple probes, including reports from Special Counsel Robert Mueller and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, finding evidence of Russian interference, Putin has denied any Russian involvement.
• Falsehoods about Ukraine and the invasion:
  • Putin and the Russian government have repeatedly claimed the invasion is to "denazify" Ukraine and that Russia is under attack, not the other way around. However, there is no evidence Ukraine is a Nazi state, and Russia initiated the invasion.
  • Five days after Russian tanks crossed the border, the Russian embassy in Canada tweeted a false denial of any occupation,  no spam .
• Claiming Poland collaborated with Hitler: Putin stated that Poland collaborated with Hitler and pushed him to start World War Two, a claim widely considered historically inaccurate and denied by Poland.
• Denial of Russian involvement in the downing of Flight MH17: Despite a UN-backed investigation concluding a Russian missile brought down the plane, Putin denied any Russian involvement.
• Claiming Russian forces in Crimea were only protecting military assets: Evidence, including Russian military license plates on vehicles used by these forces, suggested they were indeed Russian security services, not "citizens' defense groups".
• Fabricated claims of humanitarian crisis in Ukraine in 2014: Putin alleged a humanitarian crisis and a flood of Ukrainian asylum seekers into Russia. This was refuted by international organizations and journalists on the ground.
• Claims of ethnic Russians being under threat in Ukraine (2014): There were no credible reports outside of Russian press of ethnic Russians facing threats in Ukraine.
• Assertions about Ukrainian statehood and history: Putin has made historical claims denying the existence of a separate Ukrainian nation, portraying it as an artificial creation of Soviet planners. These claims are considered by historians to be distortions of historical facts, intended to justify Russia's geopolitical aims. 

While some of Putin's statements are based on factual events but present a skewed or incomplete narrative, others are demonstrably false and are considered a form of propaganda used to further the Kremlin's objectives, according to sources like the  no spam . 
 
 

Doesn't he pay right wing influencers here? Big Money??

Putin is a politician..  They all lie..


AI OverviewYes, the Russian government has allegedly funded right-wing influencers in the US through a covert influence operation
. 
In September 2024, the US Department of Justice unsealed an indictment accusing two employees of RT, a Russian state media outlet, of secretly funneling nearly $10 million to a Tennessee-based media company. This company then contracted with prominent right-wing influencers to create videos and other content that was often consistent with the Russian government's interests, particularly in amplifying US domestic divisions and weakening opposition to its core interests, like the war in Ukraine. 
The indictment states that the company never disclosed its ties to RT and the Russian government to the influencers or their audience. The influencers themselves have stated they were unaware of the Russian funding and were deceived by the company's owners. They have claimed to be victims of the scheme. 
US intelligence officials and researchers have reported that Russia and other foreign powers have intensified their efforts to influence US elections and disrupt polling places. The use of influencers,  no spam , marks a more sophisticated approach, leveraging individuals who already have established audiences to spread narratives that align with Russian interests. 
While the immediate impact of these specific efforts on election results is unclear, experts highlight the broader goal of long-term influence operations and the need for Americans to be vigilant about the source of online political information. 

jerrab » 21 Aug 2025, 3:30 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 3:30 pm

No NATO admittance, no Western troops in Ukraine and hand over the Donbas region — a litany of demands that Moscow has previously stated, but which it formally informed Washington of on Friday, sources familiar with the Kremlin’s negotiations told Reuters.///-------------------------------------------

maybe at least make it fair to  donbas and have a security council there for grievances.

The territories Russia has LIBERATED - not captured - were in rebellion against the coup government imposed on them by washington dc. The rebellion was in response to ethnic/linguistic discrimination by the illegal coup government. The discrimination took many forms, from outlawing the Russian language in violation of the overthrown Constitution to the murder of citizens by government-funded paramilitary vigilantes sporting nazi insignia.

The territory's vote, according to precedent (google kosovo), must be respected by all nations, as the people of that region have a right recognized by the ICC to vote themselves out of Coupkraine. They did so. The conversation is over - and there are Russian missiles and drones and infantry men (not infantry trannies) to back that vote up.

Everyone reading this who doesn't like it can suck it - it's going to stand, and your ****** government's tranny soldiers can't do **** about it. 
 

Charlie Quirk is a Nut Job..

JohnnyYou » 21 Aug 2025, 7:23 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 7:23 pm

So are you on the Epstein List Dude?

AI OverviewMultiple sources indicate that Russian President Vladimir Putin has made public statements contradicted by available evidence
. 
Here are a few notable examples:

• Denial of Russian involvement in the 2016 US election: Despite multiple probes, including reports from Special Counsel Robert Mueller and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, finding evidence of Russian interference, Putin has denied any Russian involvement.
• Falsehoods about Ukraine and the invasion:
  • Putin and the Russian government have repeatedly claimed the invasion is to "denazify" Ukraine and that Russia is under attack, not the other way around. However, there is no evidence Ukraine is a Nazi state, and Russia initiated the invasion.
  • Five days after Russian tanks crossed the border, the Russian embassy in Canada tweeted a false denial of any occupation,  no spam .
• Claiming Poland collaborated with Hitler: Putin stated that Poland collaborated with Hitler and pushed him to start World War Two, a claim widely considered historically inaccurate and denied by Poland.
• Denial of Russian involvement in the downing of Flight MH17: Despite a UN-backed investigation concluding a Russian missile brought down the plane, Putin denied any Russian involvement.
• Claiming Russian forces in Crimea were only protecting military assets: Evidence, including Russian military license plates on vehicles used by these forces, suggested they were indeed Russian security services, not "citizens' defense groups".
• Fabricated claims of humanitarian crisis in Ukraine in 2014: Putin alleged a humanitarian crisis and a flood of Ukrainian asylum seekers into Russia. This was refuted by international organizations and journalists on the ground.
• Claims of ethnic Russians being under threat in Ukraine (2014): There were no credible reports outside of Russian press of ethnic Russians facing threats in Ukraine.
• Assertions about Ukrainian statehood and history: Putin has made historical claims denying the existence of a separate Ukrainian nation, portraying it as an artificial creation of Soviet planners. These claims are considered by historians to be distortions of historical facts, intended to justify Russia's geopolitical aims. 

While some of Putin's statements are based on factual events but present a skewed or incomplete narrative, others are demonstrably false and are considered a form of propaganda used to further the Kremlin's objectives, according to sources like the  no spam .

Thank you for reminding me how stupid you are.

Pick one or two of those lies that you think you can defend. Or are you just spamming?

Wait. I already know. Never mind.

If any OTHER propaganda swillers thinks he can defend any of that AI-generated gish gallop, step right up. I'm not spending an hour answering spam that a lightweight took 3 seconds to google up. 
 

Cannonpointer » 21 Aug 2025, 7:36 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 7:36 pm

Thank you for reminding me how stupid you are.

Pick one or two of those lies that you think you can defend. Or are you just spamming?

Wait. I already know. Never mind.

If any OTHER propaganda swillers thinks he can defend any of that AI-generated gish gallop, step right up. I'm not spending an hour answering spam that a lightweight took 3 seconds to google up.

Neither of us have time for the bullshyt.

Are you on the Epstein List?  9 out of 10 accusers should be the accused. At least the white male ones..

I heard the white cracker smokers are cracking up that Cracker Barrel removed the old white dude by the barrel from the logo.

 
 

JohnnyYou » 21 Aug 2025, 7:37 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 7:37 pm

Neither of us have time for the bullshyt.

Are you on the Epstein List?  9 out of 10 accusers should be the accused.

I heard the white cracker smokers are cracking up that Cracker Barrel removed the old white dude by the barrel from the logo.

You're aloser, son. You have no center and no bottom. You're just a noggin disassociated from the body it tops. 
 

Cannonpointer » 21 Aug 2025, 7:41 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 7:41 pm

You're aloser, son. You have no center and no bottom. You're just a noggin disassociated from the body it tops.

It comes with the quantum guruism..

CI3 Atlas appears to be artificially illuminated and has one headlight. Drive that Bytch Home..

If it starts flashing SOS we might end up with a shytload of ET immigrants.
 

Cannonpointer » 21 Aug 2025, 7:31 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 7:31 pm

The territories Russia has LIBERATED - not captured - were in rebellion against the coup government imposed on them by washington dc. The rebellion was in response to ethnic/linguistic discrimination by the illegal coup government. The discrimination took many forms, from outlawing the Russian language in violation of the overthrown Constitution to the murder of citizens by government-funded paramilitary vigilantes sporting nazi insignia.

The territory's vote, according to precedent (google kosovo), must be respected by all nations, as the people of that region have a right recognized by the ICC to vote themselves out of Coupkraine. They did so. The conversation is over - and there are Russian missiles and drones and infantry men (not infantry trannies) to back that vote up.

Everyone reading this who doesn't like it can suck it - it's going to stand, and your ****** government's tranny soldiers can't do **** about it.

you are right but zelinski will not let russia keep donbas
 

jerrab » 21 Aug 2025, 8:10 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 8:10 pm

you are right but zelinski will not let russia keep donbas

             

And I won't let you go to Walmart - ever again. 

Now, that's final. No appeal. 
 

JohnnyYou » 21 Aug 2025, 7:31 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 7:31 pm

Charlie Quirk is a Nut Job..

Yet he makes you look like a double lobotomy recipient...oh wait!
 

ROG62 » 21 Aug 2025, 8:42 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 8:42 pm

Yet he makes you look like a double lobotomy recipient...oh wait!

Yes, even my balls are brains..   Big Balls can't beat me.


 

MR-7 » 21 Aug 2025, 3:43 pm » wrote: ↑

21 Aug 2025, 3:43 pm

NATO was created to counter the Soviet Union, which no longer exists. NATO has been screwing (financially) the USA for a very long time. The alliance is outdated and no longer reflects the geopolitical realities of the 21st century. Leaving NATO could give the U.S. more freedom to pursue its own foreign policy without being bound by collective defense obligations. **** NATO.

I think we should shoot stupid people.