Liberal Forum

SOME estimates are that 25% of Russia's capacity to produce & sell oil (maybe more) has been affected... THIS in a nation who HAS NO OTHER source of cash... and an economy that is now almost exclusively a military economy... that RELIES on OIL !!

ADD to that OTHER destroyed infrastructure (Rail Roads, Weapons Manufacturing & Depots, Rail Road, and KEY Russian military equipment)... ALL while Ukrainians are rolling out NEW and LONGER RANGE weapons every month... permitting Ukraine to do MORE DAMAGE, and degrading Russia.

BOTTOM LINE:  UNLIKE conflicts like Afghanistan, Iraq, and others... where the people DID NOT WANT American and Western involvement... the Ukrainians are DIFFERENT... THIS is a people READY, WILLING and ABLE to fight back... and to FIGHT for their independence... AND NOW, they are backed by NATO, but primarily European NATO... BUT which America is also involved and helping... WITH MUCH of their population are now refugees in eastern Europe, but the Ukrainian army is STILL FIGHTING... AND, NOT losing !!

It's NOT good for Ukraine... BUT, it might be EVEN WORSE for Russia !  WE will SEE !!

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/4 ... ns-in-kyiv

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-inter ... ning-empty

https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/23/europe/u ... tacks-intl

It's gonna get a lot worse for Russia. Putin should not have pissed TRUMP off. 

MR-7 » 09 Sep 2025, 8:38 am » wrote: ↑

09 Sep 2025, 8:38 am

It's gonna get a lot worse for Russia. Putin should not have pissed TRUMP off.

Putin should have KNOWN that Trump just wanted to find an esy way out of the war... and it COULD have been a "quick deal" as part of the recent efforts...BUT, Putin had other ideas, and now... If i were putin I would EXPECT it to get worse... 

Ukraine seems to be CREATING new technology out of thin air... and building it themselves?  I would expect it has come with a LOT of western help, BUT, Ukraine is taking credit, and which means, they don't need western approval to USE THEM...  As this war goes forward Ukraineian technology seems to be IMPROVING... while Russia's is just "RUNNING LOW"...

ALL the WHILE... Russia is losing TWICE or MORE as many troops as Ukraine... and I'm, hearing Ukraine is ready to launch inexpensive "Ground Drones"... Equipped with machine guns, bombs, and other munitions... that could likely drive the Russian casualty rate EVEN HIGHER !!

Ukraine won’t last another year unless they start attacking Russia’s military complex and go after Moscow directly. They should make regime change a priority also

BuckNaked » 10 Sep 2025, 8:16 am » wrote: ↑

10 Sep 2025, 8:16 am

Ukraine won’t last another year unless they start attacking Russia’s military complex and go after Moscow directly. They should make regime change a priority also

THEY HAVE BEEN... Ukraine has been using their long range missiles (and drones) to blow up Refineries and Oil Storage depots all across Russia... CURRENTLY maybe 30% of Russia's capacity has been affected (the military can't move without gas, and Russia has no other means of paying bills other than selling oil to other countries), NOT to mention, Ukraine blowing up Russian Munitions Plants, Munition Depots, Rail Roads, and other KEY plants & buildings...

6 months ago, it was almost ALL using drones... but during the last 3-4 months, with the Flamingo missiles they introduced (looks like a 30 year old Russian cruise missile I seem to remember), they have been reaching out a LOT further, and more often !!

IT SEEMS, the longer this war goes... the MORE capable Ukraine is getting, and , the more constrained Russia is getting... If NATO and the U.S. continue to help, and Ukraine continues to fight... I wouldn't want to be Russia !!

ConservativeWave » 10 Sep 2025, 9:28 am » wrote: ↑

10 Sep 2025, 9:28 am

THEY HAVE BEEN... Ukraine has been using their long range missiles (and drones) to blow up Refineries and Oil Storage depots all across Russia... CURRENTLY maybe 30% of Russia's capacity has been affected (the military can't move without gas, and Russia has no other means of paying bills other than selling oil to other countries), NOT to mention, Ukraine blowing up Russian Munitions Plants, Munition Depots, Rail Roads, and other KEY plants & buildings...

6 months ago, it was almost ALL using drones... but during the last 3-4 months, with the Flamingo missiles they introduced (looks like a 30 year old Russian cruise missile I seem to remember), they have been reaching out a LOT further, and more often !!

IT SEEMS, the longer this war goes... the MORE capable Ukraine is getting, and , the more constrained Russia is getting... If NATO and the U.S. continue to help, and Ukraine continues to fight... I wouldn't want to be Russia !!

Ukraine is taking a beating especially in the east 

Kiev can’t hold on forever 
 

ConservativeWave » 09 Sep 2025, 8:12 am » wrote: ↑

09 Sep 2025, 8:12 am

SOME estimates are that 25% of Russia's capacity to produce & sell oil (maybe more) has been affected... THIS in a nation who HAS NO OTHER source of cash... and an economy that is now almost exclusively a military economy... that RELIES on OIL !!

ADD to that OTHER destroyed infrastructure (Rail Roads, Weapons Manufacturing & Depots, Rail Road, and KEY Russian military equipment)... ALL while Ukrainians are rolling out NEW and LONGER RANGE weapons every month... permitting Ukraine to do MORE DAMAGE, and degrading Russia.

BOTTOM LINE:  UNLIKE conflicts like Afghanistan, Iraq, and others... where the people DID NOT WANT American and Western involvement... the Ukrainians are DIFFERENT... THIS is a people READY, WILLING and ABLE to fight back... and to FIGHT for their independence... AND NOW, they are backed by NATO, but primarily European NATO... BUT which America is also involved and helping... WITH MUCH of their population are now refugees in eastern Europe, but the Ukrainian army is STILL FIGHTING... AND, NOT losing !!

It's NOT good for Ukraine... BUT, it might be EVEN WORSE for Russia !  WE will SEE !!

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/4 ... ns-in-kyiv

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-inter ... ning-empty

https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/23/europe/u ... tacks-intl

You left out you are dealing with "Slavic" people 

Slavs for the most part are tough stubborn "SOBs" too

Ukraine is simply unwilling cede territory and Russia wants a friendly leader in Kiev..

This really goes back to NATO during the collapse of the Former Soviet Union we had agreed not to expand NATO eastward past Germany and broke our word over and over again .

Ethnic Ukrainians were also victims of the Holdomar Famine back in the 1930s where the Joseph Stalin government litterally tried starving Ukraine to death and despite once being an important SOVIET REPUBLIC there is still bad blood and sour grapes over the FAMINES almost a century ago under Stalin.

Frankly this whole war never even hadda happen all Russia wanted was the guarentee that Ukraine never join NATO 

The can join the Eurozone economic union thats fine but no NATO or Western Military in Ukaraine 

Joe Biden and Europe kept fanning the FLAMES and Russia started the invasion and now practically control the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine which also is ethnically more Russian than Ukrainian.

Anyways Trump is trying to stop the war all together even met with Putin in Alaska last month but the Goal Posts keep changing.

Trump is also indecisive one week he says we aint sending more weapons then next week he signs a weapons transfer but says Europe will pay us back for the weapons.

Look all Trump has gotta do is decisively say NO NATO PERIOD....Now Freeze the CONFLICT.

As for a Peace Keeping forces nations friendly to Russia such as Belarus, Hungary, Slovakia and Turkey could provide a peace keeping force at frozen line of conflict there of course would have to be a U/N resolution 

Anyways until then just keep seeimg all the drones and missles fired back and forth every day..

If one thing the Ukraine war has taught us is the old way of fighting war is out the window its all aboit asymetric tactics and even a smaller army like Ukraine can inflict serious damage even on a big power like Russia whos army is only second to USA in size and equiptment but China is catching up really fast too



 

Ya know something else this is a SOVIET style war.

Ya got two Former Soviet armies going at eachother head 2 head.

Onset of the war most Ukraine Army equiptment was old Soviet stock from the break up

During the Former Soviet Union Ukraine was a very important industrial hub and inherited many arms and aircraft factories.

Ukraine even has a State Owned company who took those over and formed "Ukroboroncom" and prior to the invasion concentrated on "Exports" for Foreign Capital Reserves.

Since the Invasion they are now solely a Military Economy and Supplier

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense ... of_Ukraine
 

TwoIfByTea » 11 Sep 2025, 1:11 am » wrote: ↑

11 Sep 2025, 1:11 am

Ya know something else this is a SOVIET style war.

Ya got two Former Soviet armies going at eachother head 2 head.

Onset of the war most Ukraine Army equiptment was old Soviet stock from the break up

During the Former Soviet Union Ukraine was a very important industrial hub and inherited many arms and aircraft factories.

Ukraine even has a State Owned company who took those over and formed "Ukropcom" and prior to the invasion concentrated on "Exports" for Foreign Capital Reserves.

Since the Invasion they are now solely a Military Economy and Supplier

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense ... of_Ukraine

For ya lazy bastards Ukraine as recently as 2012 was the 4th largest weapons exporter "World-Wide".

Since the war exports are banned and all production must go to Ukraine Armed Forces.......



In 2012, Ukraine's export-oriented arms industry had reached the status of world's 4th largest arms exporter.[17] Since the start of the war in Donbas, Ukraine's military industry has focused more on its internal arms market and as a result slipped to the 9th spot among top global arms exporters by 2015,[18] 11th spot by 2018,[19] and the 12th spot among global arms exporters by 2019.[20] In 2019, the main importers of Ukrainian weapons were India, Saudi Arabia and Turkey.[14] As of February 2025, Ukraine is upholding its ban on the export of weapons due to the full-scale invasion, although it is expected for the ban to be lifted in 2025.[
 

Just found this Ukraine has domestically designed and started production on a new "Cruise Missle" with a 1000/1500 miles range can hit well deep into Russia.

Unlike American / Europe Supplied weapons that are "Nutered" in range and Rules of usage as well...

This domestcally designed and produced in Ukraine Missle could be a game changer.

Fullscale Production scheduled by end of year or mid 2026 next year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-5_Flamingo


It has already been used and showed success against Russian Navy assets near the Crimea

"On 30 August 2025, Ukrainian sources claimed that Flamingo missiles were used to target a Federal Security Service outpost in Crimea, in what was described as their first combat use. According to these reports, at least three missiles struck the facility, causing structural damage and reportedly damaging six hovercraft while killing one Russian serviceman.[33][34] Follow-up analysis of satellite imagery showed that one missile directly hit a barracks building, another landed wide of the hovercraft storage area, and a third exploded near some objects east of the facility.[35][36]"

TwoIfByTea » 11 Sep 2025, 12:27 am » wrote: ↑

11 Sep 2025, 12:27 am

You left out you are dealing with "Slavic" people 

Slavs for the most part are tough stubborn "SOBs" too

Ukraine is simply unwilling cede territory and Russia wants a friendly leader in Kiev..

This really goes back to NATO during the collapse of the Former Soviet Union we had agreed not to expand NATO eastward past Germany and broke our word over and over again .

Ethnic Ukrainians were also victims of the Holdomar Famine back in the 1930s where the Joseph Stalin government litterally tried starving Ukraine to death and despite once being an important SOVIET REPUBLIC there is still bad blood and sour grapes over the FAMINES almost a century ago under Stalin.

Frankly this whole war never even hadda happen all Russia wanted was the guarentee that Ukraine never join NATO 

The can join the Eurozone economic union thats fine but no NATO or Western Military in Ukaraine 

Joe Biden and Europe kept fanning the FLAMES and Russia started the invasion and now practically control the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine which also is ethnically more Russian than Ukrainian.

Anyways Trump is trying to stop the war all together even met with Putin in Alaska last month but the Goal Posts keep changing.

Trump is also indecisive one week he says we aint sending more weapons then next week he signs a weapons transfer but says Europe will pay us back for the weapons.

Look all Trump has gotta do is decisively say NO NATO PERIOD....Now Freeze the CONFLICT.

As for a Peace Keeping forces nations friendly to Russia such as Belarus, Hungary, Slovakia and Turkey could provide a peace keeping force at frozen line of conflict there of course would have to be a U/N resolution 

Anyways until then just keep seeimg all the drones and missles fired back and forth every day..

If one thing the Ukraine war has taught us is the old way of fighting war is out the window its all aboit asymetric tactics and even a smaller army like Ukraine can inflict serious damage even on a big power like Russia whos army is only second to USA in size and equiptment but China is catching up really fast too

Start launching missiles at Moscow fly sorties into Russia non stop just pound them **** 

ConservativeWave » 10 Sep 2025, 9:28 am » wrote: ↑

10 Sep 2025, 9:28 am

THEY HAVE BEEN... Ukraine has been using their long range missiles (and drones) to blow up Refineries and Oil Storage depots all across Russia... CURRENTLY maybe 30% of Russia's capacity has been affected (the military can't move without gas, and Russia has no other means of paying bills other than selling oil to other countries), NOT to mention, Ukraine blowing up Russian Munitions Plants, Munition Depots, Rail Roads, and other KEY plants & buildings...

6 months ago, it was almost ALL using drones... but during the last 3-4 months, with the Flamingo missiles they introduced (looks like a 30 year old Russian cruise missile I seem to remember), they have been reaching out a LOT further, and more often !!

IT SEEMS, the longer this war goes... the MORE capable Ukraine is getting, and , the more constrained Russia is getting... If NATO and the U.S. continue to help, and Ukraine continues to fight... I wouldn't want to be Russia !!

They arent hitting or taking out their drone manufacturing unless Russia is importing them