Liberal Forum

Cannonpointer » 27 Nov 2025, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 11:26 am

You MUST, at some level, understand that you have the skepticism of a small female child - yes?

Just sit with it, please, before you respond. 

Here, let me help you see the various obvious errors you make in that post. I won't go into the ones that might require any googling. 

The first error is to respond to a post about homelessness in Murka with an observation that AT BEST subsumes the homeless into a much larger group, and at worst simply does not account for them at all. We cannot know which without some googling, but it is one or the other. 

The second is to make a weak defense of capitalism by comparing it to capitalism. That is just retarded, if you are honest about it. 

The third is to pretend that "goods and services" is an honest measure, when on one side the "fortunate" are forced to purchase and maintain personal automobiles, and on the other side, the "less fortunate" have easy access to public transport at a very cheap cost. We do not have any idea without a deep dive whether that public transport is counted as a "good or service," and what value is assigned to it.

In ChyNa, they have EVs that are like 30% of the cost of EVs here. Tesla is allowed to sell their cars in ChyNa but Nio isn't allowed to sell their EVs here in the United States.

Elon Musk is one of the biggest state subsidized billionaires in the entirety of history, coddled to the breast but we're supposed to think he's Tony Stark or an Atlas Shrugged protagonist   

(A little dirty secret people don't know is that America is extensively protectionist underneath the surface.

 ____________________

Now that being said, one of the better measures of "prosperity" is PPP, and the US is still among the highest.

I do believe part of the reason Fuelman's argument is POSSIBLY valid - even if it suffers from all those holes you brought up - is due to the welfare system / transfer payments that allow people who are desperately poor to still retain some semblance of "living" rather than merely being alive. 

Keeping this in mind, the majority of countries around the world have no welfare system at all. If they don't work (even if they're unable to) they die or get creative with living arrangements. 
 

And today Im Proud 2 be "American" where atleast I think I am still "FREE"..

Im gonna "Stand Up" and "Rise Up"

GOD BLESS THE "USA".

Eh we need get people working together in the SPIRIT

https://youtu.be/-KoXt9pZLGM?si=M0hHNZBr1s7mMPG9

TwoIfByTea » 27 Nov 2025, 2:45 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 2:45 pm

And today Im Proud 2 be "American" where atleast I think I am still "FREE"..

Im gonna "Stand Up" and "Rise Up"

GOD BLESS THE "USA".

Eh we need get people working together in the SPIRIT

https://youtu.be/-KoXt9pZLGM?si=M0hHNZBr1s7mMPG9

Wanna fix this Country before ya "Write It Off" and they call in the loans..

Back 2 Work lets get everybody "Working" Again thats how people used do it back "In The Day"

Pay attention too dont get too far ahead yourself but Show , Determination, and SPIRIT once again today Society become so "Degererate" as well

Look pal this a "Job Site" ya on the "Payroll" too act like ya "Deserve" your "Paycheck" too

https://youtu.be/S-G2J3RzURA?si=dmZkoOkBegJpFwTs
 

TwoIfByTea » 27 Nov 2025, 2:53 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 2:53 pm

Wanna fix this Country before ya "Write It Off" and they call in the loans..

Back 2 Work lets get everybody "Working" Again thats how people used do it back "In The Day"

Pay attention too dont get too far ahead yourself but Show , Determination, and SPIRIT once again today Society become so "Degererate" as well

Look pal this a "Job Site" ya on the "Payroll" too act like ya "Deserve" your "Paycheck" too

https://youtu.be/S-G2J3RzURA?si=dmZkoOkBegJpFwTs

Yes Coal Miners too we got like half a Millenium at current consumption rates sitting inside the ground 

We also have "Enviromemtal Regulation" EPA and Pollution Controls do it clean as possible todays technology.

China and India both got "Billion People" each and they still "Dirt Poor" by todays standards and they dont care about "Global Warming" China Alone open a new Coal Plant almost every other day just keep up with their energy demand.

They dump all the sluge and chemicals in the rivers infact many parts of China and India the Fish are dead or so poisoned ya catch one ya would throw it back not even think about Fillets and eating it..

The "Activist" types think despite best "Technology" and our Enviroment really good compared rest of world...

But oh my Gosh "Climate Change" buy an Electic Car and Europe has the "Carbon Foot Print" Regulations 

China and India got twice as many people combined and they still a generation or two behind in technology...

Billions of "Mouths" 2 Feed too so dont have uprisings or Civil War

More than half of Global Pollution and Carbon produced by Chima amd India and they dont give a crap making Europe and USA policy "NOTHING"

But oh my gosh think of the "Children" and we should just slice our own throats economically its freaking insane..

https://youtu.be/phSxxVJCZsc?si=QC8xEuaKmm53CZnD
 

Take the "Electric Car" sure a Tesla has no "Tail-Pipe" exhaust but dont let that fool ya neither..

Vast quantites of Lithium and Minerals are needed to make thw battery banks.

Those electric cars ya either go to a charging station or re-wire" the garage handle the power plug load still hooked to the ELECTRIC GRID burning Fossil Cuels to power it.

Sure no blue smoke of burning oil directly.

Infact it takes a Electric Car roughly a "Decade" on the road to become "Carbon Nuetral"

Heres "AMAZON" they bought all those "Electric Vans" Jeff Bezos touts we cool
.

Here is rail container sized "Diesel Generator" in Amazon wharehouse parking lot the Electric Vans plugged into a giant Diesel Generator.

https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs?si=SmW4-mR6R0_TPy5g

TwoIfByTea » 27 Nov 2025, 3:23 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 3:23 pm

Take the "Electric Car" sure a Tesla has no "Tail-Pipe" exhaust but dont let that fool ya neither..

Vast quantites of Lithium and Minerals are needed to make thw battery banks.

Those electric cars ya either go to a charging station or re-wire" the garage handle the power plug load still hooked to the ELECTRIC GRID burning Fossil Fuels to power it despite

Sure no blue smoke of burning oil directly.

Infact it takes a Electric Car roughly a "Decade" on the road to become "Carbon Nuetral"

Heres "AMAZON" they bought all those "Electric Vans" Jeff Bezos touts we cool
.

Here is rail container sized "Diesel Generator" in Amazon wharehouse parking lot the Electric Vans plugged into a giant Diesel Generator.

https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs?si=SmW4-mR6R0_TPy5g

I think thats the wrong video but when ya google something gives ya 500 differnet answer and "Ads" instead of exactly what ya looking for ..

My Bad and I apoligize 4 that
 
 

Sure no fan belts , no oil changes or filters "True" but thats simple kinda stuff ya learned wathing your Dad as a kid and High School shop class was not a complete disaster could be changed out easily just a mere "Inconvienence" for that day ya swapped out parts and good to go

Today this stuff is way over the top "Sensored" and "Comperterized" so a "Sensor" goes the whole car shuts down too because the sensors and computer bank cant read eachother.

Also very Expensive "Inflated Values" for "EV" so the Car Insurance carriers charge ya double , triple average policy rates because they get in a small fender bender it Co$ts many THOUSANDS fix cover the policy.

https://youtu.be/T7fGDw7U2Wg?si=JSSCbJwR-iLXSfsh

Dont Forget "Fires" electric vehicles start on fire the Fire Department cant just spray em down water interacts so they basically block off the road let it "Burn Out"..


https://youtu.be/4kYXZK5sXU4?si=NdDgaibD-oH0wh5Y
 

Morris Illinois a decade ago a wharehouse fire storing "E/V" batteries

State Of Illinois "Attorneys" Generals Office still suing them tied up in the courts

https://youtu.be/o-o-YWDzhAY?si=23GqYiAPlPEZVLRA

Fuelman » 27 Nov 2025, 8:31 am » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 8:31 am

Most people have negative thoughts thinking about bail outs. Most don't realize they are getting a taxpayer bailout every time they fill up the car or truck with gasoline.

Despite claims of free-market competition, the U.S. fossil fuel industry benefits from an estimated $760 billion annually through subsidies, tax breaks, and unpriced externalities, with direct government subsidies alone accounting for $10 to $52 billion per year. These policies distort energy markets, hinder renewable energy growth, and cost taxpayers billions

Fossil Fuel Subsidies: The $760 Billion Lie About 'Free Market' Energy | FracTracker Alliance https://share.google/0bY4mCy41GxxjcJhX

It's been estimated that fuel would cost $15/ gallon if this were a true free market and the fossil fuel industry took care of all costs associated with the use of fossil fuels.

Careful what you wish for.

Yeah, it's almost like Standard Oil, GM, Ford, and the other culprits made the US economy dependent upon fossil fuels for transportation a century ago, ensuring a perpetual cash flow piggy bank gifted from the US Treasury as well as consumers paying at the pump.

How you manage to perform mental acrobatics by shifting the burden of responsibility onto the "benefitting" consumer is truly incredible. 

And yes, I want a free market to set prices for gasoline. The economy would restructure itself in a fortnight. I side with libertarians on this issue (true libertarians acknowledge the "waste" from food stamps and other programs are nowhere as massive as the waste going to Fortune 500s)

@Cannonpointer  

Fuelman » 27 Nov 2025, 1:18 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 1:18 pm

  I know getting you to consider information outside your bubble is a lost cause but I'm always willing to try.

Said the guy who can actually WATCH passenger jets drop a payload, WATCH that payload join similar payloads cross-hatching the sky, becoming cloud cover/overcast on a day that nature clearly intended to be blue sky - and who rejects what he sees in favor of a spoonfed narrative.

The irony you people generate...

Fuelman » 27 Nov 2025, 1:18 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 1:18 pm

Read the article and get a little smarter. You can take up the errors in the study with these guys:

Notably, this study was reviewed by Dr. Henrique Schneider, professor of economics at Nordakademie University in Germany and the chief economist of the Swiss Federation of Small and Medium-Sized Enterprises. After examining the source data and Just Facts’ methodology, he concluded: “This study is sound and conforms with academic standards. I personally think it provides valuable insight into poverty measures and adds considerably to this field of research.”

Nothing I said to you landed, did it?

EVEN IF THE STUDY IS TRUE, you are merely comparing one capitalist country to many others. It is evident you are doing this in an attempt to refute my sidemouthing of capitalsim. Yet it never even occurs to you that you are **** 35 capitalist countries in order to do so. You are saying that capitalism is failing 500 million people in Europe, leaving them poorer than our pathetic white trash and EBTishas.

If your study is spot on and impeccable, it **** on your implicit thesis. How is it possible for you to miss this fact?

MOREOVER, I repeat: When the "goods and services" include automobiles that are every bit as much a ball and chain as they are a liberation, that is a flaw in the study no matter what your grand authorities pontificate.

Let's just see if we can agree on one point, nine year old girl child: If your study is spot on, we are left with the conundrum of why the Europeans routinely score much higher than we rich Americans on quality of life/happiness measures, notwithstanding they are poverty stricken bundles of rags. Can you comprehend how little **** sense that makes, and smell a rat?

I don't believe you would recognize a clue if it bit ya.

LowIQTrash » 27 Nov 2025, 1:20 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Nov 2025, 1:20 pm

In ChyNa, they have EVs that are like 30% of the cost of EVs here. Tesla is allowed to sell their cars in ChyNa but Nio isn't allowed to sell their EVs here in the United States.

Elon Musk is one of the biggest state subsidized billionaires in the entirety of history, coddled to the breast but we're supposed to think he's Tony Stark or an Atlas Shrugged protagonist   

(A little dirty secret people don't know is that America is extensively protectionist underneath the surface.

 ____________________

Now that being said, one of the better measures of "prosperity" is PPP, and the US is still among the highest.

I do believe part of the reason Fuelman's argument is POSSIBLY valid - even if it suffers from all those holes you brought up - is due to the welfare system / transfer payments that allow people who are desperately poor to still retain some semblance of "living" rather than merely being alive. 

Keeping this in mind, the majority of countries around the world have no welfare system at all. If they don't work (even if they're unable to) they die or get creative with living arrangements.

I reject the measures, and I insist the proffer is a snake eating its tail.

All by itself, the forced ownership of automobiles invalidates the claim. Most poor people in the US "own" cars that own them. They are made slaves to the automobile industry by the absolute necessity of car ownership to have any SEMBLANCE of a life. That is $6,000 per year of takehome pay BEFORE you count gas and maintenance. I'm talking car payments and insurance alone. And without any doubt, that study counts these forced purchases of autos and insurance policies as "goods and services." So it's a point that isn't a point. 

And I further argue that IF HIS STUDY'S CLAIM IS "TRUE," he has a **** of splaining to do, given that quality of life measures invariably favor Europeans - the majority of whom we are instructed to believe must absolutely live in trailers and dumps - or the math doesn't math.

On top of that, if his study is true, it rather damns than praises capitalism, since the countries and populations it is failing outnumber our own. 

Look, I ain't a rocket surgeon, but I know what **** smells like.