Liberal Forum

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote: You have EXPOSED NOTHING PUNK. You have RUN FROM FACTS and think calling it NARRATIVE makes them go away

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

Here are the sources your USA Today puff piece relies on:

"But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine"

Unnamed people all. You have no comprehension of how to sustain your argument.

The only hard quote is form "Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder and executive director of the Anti Corruption Action Centre in Kiev."

In a world where the thing commonly calls itself the anti-thing, an unknown member of an agency that materialized after the fact in dispute occured is less than a leaky boat - it's no boat at all.

The puff peace you proffer ends on this indicative note: "Their assertion is contradicted by former diplomatic officials who were following the issue at the time." From start to finish, it's not journalism. It's puffery. When actual facts are in dispute, it takes more than puffery to sustain an argument.

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote: Without pressure from Joe Biden, European diplomats, the International Monetary Fund and other international organizations, Shokin would not have been fired, said Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder and executive director of the Anti Corruption Action Centre in Kiev.
Civil society organizations in Ukraine were pressing for his resignation," Kaleniuk said,
In July 2015, Shokin's office became mired in scandal after authorities raided homes belonging to two high-ranking prosecutors. Police seized millions of dollars worth of diamonds and cash, suggesting the pair had been taking bribes.
It became known as the "diamond prosecutors" case. Deputy General Prosecutor Vitaliy Kasko, who said he tried to investigate it, resigned months later, calling the prosecutor's office a "hotbed of corruption" and an "instrument of political pressure."
Shokin's office also stepped in to help Zlochevsky, the head of Burisma.
British authorities had frozen $23 million in a money-laundering probe, but Shokin's office failed to send documents British authorities needed to prosecute Zlochevsky. The case eventually unraveled and the assets were unfrozen.

According to this link, Shokin is one of the officials trying to fight the corruption. Quote it saying otherwise.

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote: In October 2015, Ukrainians staged a protest outside Poroshenko's home calling for Shokin's removal.
This link^ is from the Atlantic Council, a think tank paid to produce narratives. The Atlantic Councils claims are based on no reliable evidence or testimony - a bought to order circle jerk.

Unless you are willing to accept claims from CATO and Heritage, you have no right to demand others accept claims from the Atlantic Council - an organization paid for one thing only: Narratives.

solon » 16 Feb 2020 3:01 pm » wrote:Besides Biden's threat over the $1 billion in aid, the International Monetary Fund threatened to delay $40 billion in aid for similar reasons.
The only things missing are names and quotes - but that's how Narrative works.

"Similar" reasons - no mention of Shokin in the link: The link does not sustain your narrative. You never quote anyone calling out Shokin - the new reform prosecutor that BIden got fired - by name. That his office was corrupt is a given - his predecessor was fired and he was installed to get rid of that corruption.




A diplomat calling for a fresh start on the heels of a government shakeup is not a position paper on said shakeup. It is not even a position - much less an official one. It's just a diplomat saying the things that diplomats say when they want to get momentum going in a new relationship with a new regime. Your link is puff. Smoke. Narrative.




More think tank narrative from the atlantic council.

It's hard to accelerate prosecutions when you have foreign coercion against reform prosecutors like Shokin, whose removal opened the flood gates for democrat dirty deeds. a sign in your photo says PYKA PYKY MOET. That means "Keep Shokin" in Ukrainian, for all you or I know. You got it - and your explanation of it - from a think tank paid to lie if the truth isn't working. Still, it's nice you got a thrill up your leg from it.


You have finally offered actual evidence - congrats. I don't trust Pyatt. I consider him a deep state Biden ally. But you have actually quoted a real official making a real utterance against Shokin. We should give you a ribbon or something.




Both links above confirm only one thing: That there was concern that the reform government follow through on its commitment to reform the chief prosecutor's office. Shokin had come into the office with a mandate to clean it up, and had reported his fired (for corruption) predecessor's office was missing case files. As he continued in his duties, an attempt was made to assassinate him. y guess is that someone was unhappy with his performance in office - and I HIGHLY DOUBT that the enemies he made were reform advocates. Reform advocates rarely resort to murder. But dirty playes DO resort to murder - and black mail of foreign governments through illegal quids pro quo.


No, you haven't. That photo comes from the Atlantic Council and we have only their word where and when it was taken and what the objective of the protest was.